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Forums - Movies Discussion - Birds of Prey - 82% RT, and good audience reception

SuaveSocialist said:
Eagle367 said:

Your weird metric aside, go watch Joker NOW. It's one of the movies of the year. It's not even DCEU so your metric shouldn't stand in this case. Of you didn't watch joker, are you gonna skip out on all of the animated DC movies? And all of the WB movies?  I would say you are only hurting yourself here by skipping out on enjoyable movies and again, go watch Joker NOW. You won't regret it. 

No.  I'm not going to watch it.  I already explained what needs to happen first.

Yes, I'm going to skip out on them.  DC movies are DC movies.  Snyderverse, animated, WB...makes no difference.  If I'm to choose between one continuity and another...I'd rather not choose at all. 

No, I'm not hurting myself.  I am perfectly capable of enjoying my free time without setting any of it aside for DC.  There are a great number of enjoyable movies that I can watch instead, and the experience of watching them is not diminished just because I'll choose them over DC movies.  To the contrary, my decision seems to be hurting you.  For some reason, you appear to be more emotionally invested in which movies I don't watch than I am.

Again, no.  I'm not going to watch it.  Typing this comment was worthy of time.  DC movies are not worthy of my time, and they won't be for at least another year. 

Ok don't enjoy cool movies then. Just to clear, all DC movies are WB but not all WB movies are DC. Other than that, whatever. You're missing out on great movies and I was just trying to convey how great Joker is. At the end of the day, whether you watch them or not doesn't matter to me.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

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Eagle367 said:
SuaveSocialist said:

No.  I'm not going to watch it.  I already explained what needs to happen first.

Yes, I'm going to skip out on them.  DC movies are DC movies.  Snyderverse, animated, WB...makes no difference.  If I'm to choose between one continuity and another...I'd rather not choose at all. 

No, I'm not hurting myself.  I am perfectly capable of enjoying my free time without setting any of it aside for DC.  There are a great number of enjoyable movies that I can watch instead, and the experience of watching them is not diminished just because I'll choose them over DC movies.  To the contrary, my decision seems to be hurting you.  For some reason, you appear to be more emotionally invested in which movies I don't watch than I am.

Again, no.  I'm not going to watch it.  Typing this comment was worthy of time.  DC movies are not worthy of my time, and they won't be for at least another year. 

Ok don't enjoy cool movies then. Just to clear, all DC movies are WB but not all WB movies are DC. Other than that, whatever. You're missing out on great movies and I was just trying to convey how great Joker is. At the end of the day, whether you watch them or not doesn't matter to me.

Yeah, I don't even know why you're still conversing with this guy. "They OWE me three good movies blah blah..."

Just ignore him.



Twitter: @d21lewis

I saw it Saturday. It was pretty good. It wasn't anywhere close to "film of the year" material, but it was thoroughly entertaining, and was a fun 2 hours.



d21lewis said:
Eagle367 said:

Ok don't enjoy cool movies then. Just to clear, all DC movies are WB but not all WB movies are DC. Other than that, whatever. You're missing out on great movies and I was just trying to convey how great Joker is. At the end of the day, whether you watch them or not doesn't matter to me.

Yeah, I don't even know why you're still conversing with this guy. "They OWE me three good movies blah blah..."

Just ignore him.

That was my last exchange with him/her. I mean, do they feel WB and DC owes them anything? It's all pretty unreasonable



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Considering what I heard from some people that watched with similar taste I'll avoid this movie.



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Jaicee said:
shikamaru317 said:

Yeah, it doesn't seem to be quite that bad, 6.8 on IMDb for Birds of Prey compared to a 5.2 for Ghostbusters. Still not great user reviews though, and I can see why the person I heard that from compared them, the whole all-female main cast, girl power thing. No idea why movie studios keep doing these girl power movies when they've mostly been flopping and reviewing poorly, Ghostbusters 2016 started the trend, and it has been continued by Ocean's 8, Charlie's Angels 2019, and now Birds of Prey, all of which got bad to meh user reviews, and the Ghostbusters and Charlie's Angels reboots were box office flops as well (with only Ocean's 8 managing to break even). Seems like Birds of Prey may continue that trend, first weekend estimates are coming in about $20m below pre-release projections in the US and $10-20m below pre-release projections internationally, and the break-even point is being estimated at $235m by Box Office Pro.

*sigh* There always has to be one of you on every thread. (And usually there's more.)

The fact is that female-centered movies are averaging higher ticket sales and revenues than are male-centered movies these days, overall. Without pre-judging Birds of Prey without having yet seen it myself, it's VERY selective to only highlight Ocean's 8 and the Ghostbusters and Charlie's Angels remakes when there have been, in the last decade, such pictures as Mad Max: Fury Road, The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, Gravity, The Hunger Games, a few Star Wars movies (the first three of which at least were not flops anyway), The Bridesmaids, Hidden Figures, The Hate U Give, Wonder Woman, and Captain Marvel, and those are just some of the better-known examples. Another film that users created a thread about here on VGC to crap on in advance was Greta Gerwig's film adaptation of Little Women, which has gone on to become a critical and commercial smash hit (especially relative to its budget), in addition to being nominated for six Oscars. Also, in animation, there have been such success stories as Inside Out, Finding Dory, Moana, and Zootopia, as well as both Frozen movies, all of which have been well-received. (Yeah, that's a Disney lineup, I know: they're basically the only company that does animation for girls.) Most of these pictures could be described as pro-feminist and three (The Bridesmaids, Little Women, and Hidden Figures) use all-female casts of protagonists. A few of them even had female directors.

In addition to the above commercial hits, I would point to a number of other examples of female-centered pictures that impressed me over the last decade, including the lesbian romances Portrait of a Lady on Fire and Carol, as well the Studio Ghibli picture The Tale of the Princess Kaguya and one of my personal favorite movies of the last decade, Winter's Bone, because all of those are objectively solid films even though they didn't make the most money in the world. Also Lady Bird and I, Tonya.

Not that I'm counting on Birds of Prey to be a masterpiece of cinema or anything. My expectations of it are moderate. Critics and audiences are scoring it better than predecessor Suicide Squad, but not to a degree that suggest it to be anything really special. I'm expecting a passable-but-not-special, goofy, heavily stylized celebration of female friendships...which is fine by me. But we'll see.

My point though is that, regardless of this particular movie, while you might find "girl power" frightening and objectionable, the fact is that large numbers of people are interested in stories about girls and women, and not just in seeing them sexualized and turned into naught but helpless, hapless victims all the time like you'd prefer. And also that, frankly, many if not most female-centered movies being released today really do have some artistic merit. One really has to reach to find only the lesser examples. That takes conscious effort.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, in that there needs to be more stories centered on women and also trans women, the latter facing an even bigger problem when it comes to representation I fear



I won't mince words: a second-weekend drop rate of nearly 50% is bad, considering that Birds of Prey's opening weekend was just $33 million domestically. (Had it opened to say over $100 million, a second-weekend drop of 48% would've been understandable and normal, but that wasn't exactly the case.) As I look over the demographic breakdown of this film's audience according to the exit polls, this movie's commercial problem has become apparent to me: younger women aren't watching it.

Younger women are the group that scores Birds of Prey the best and are obviously its main intended audience, and yet they compose only a minimal share of those who are going to the theater to see it. It's not that younger women watched it on opening weekend, were disappointed, and spread negative opinions on social media, it's that they haven't given it a chance in the first place. The legacy of Suicide Squad seems to loom larger over this sequel for them. And considering that the median age of any given film's viewing audience increases each successive week after its release, if women under 25 haven't hit the theater for this movie by now, they're not going to either. That's bad for the commercial fate of the picture because it means that Birds of Prey has no core audience, let alone a peripheral one.

In other words, yeah, Birds of Prey is a sequel to a movie people disliked, to which end few are willing to give it a chance, and those who are willing don't belong to the intended audience. It seems destined for a total domestic gross of less than $100 million, and thus to go down as a forgotten entry in the current DC movie "universe".  It's too bad because DC Films clearly took a risk by making this film and I had fun with it anyway. *sighs* What can you do?

Last edited by Jaicee - on 18 February 2020

Jaicee said:

I won't mince words: a second-weekend drop rate of nearly 50% is bad, considering that Birds of Prey's opening weekend was just $33 million domestically. (Had it opened to say over $100 million, a second-weekend drop of 48% would've been understandable and normal, but that wasn't exactly the case.) As I look over the demographic breakdown of this film's audience according to the exit polls, this movie's commercial problem has become apparent to me: younger women aren't watching it.

Younger women are the group that scores Birds of Prey the best and are obviously its main intended audience, and yet they compose only a minimal share of those who are going to the theater to see it. It's not that younger women watched it on opening weekend, were disappointed, and spread negative opinions on social media, it's that they haven't given it a chance in the first place. The legacy of Suicide Squad seems to loom larger over this sequel for them. And considering that the median age of any given film's viewing audience increases each successive week after its release, if women under 25 haven't hit the theater for this movie by now, they're not going to either. That's bad for the commercial fate of the picture because it means that Birds of Prey has no core audience, let alone a peripheral one.

In other words, yeah, Birds of Prey is a sequel to a movie people disliked, to which end few are willing to give it a chance, and those who are willing don't belong to the intended audience. It seems destined for a total domestic gross of less than $100 million, and thus to go down as a forgotten entry in the current DC movie "universe".  It's too bad because DC Films clearly took a risk by making this film and I had fun with it anyway. *sighs* What can you do?

I'm not sure if blaming the commercial failure of this movie on Suicide Squad is really appropriate here. For all the problems people had with that movie, if there was one positive, it's that people generally came away really liking Margot's Harley Quinn, and outside of her, BoP - far as I can tell - really has no other connection to Suicide Squad. WB also made a few generally well received DC movies since then, so the general audience should feel more comfortable going to see a DC movie now than they would have been in the immediate aftermath of Suicide Squad.

Suicide Squad 2 is releasing next summer, and I wouldn't be at all surprised - whether it's earned or not - if that movie does significantly better numbers than BoP, despite actually bearing the full brunt of the negative name recognition.



Angelus said:

I'm not sure if blaming the commercial failure of this movie on Suicide Squad is really appropriate here. For all the problems people had with that movie, if there was one positive, it's that people generally came away really liking Margot's Harley Quinn, and outside of her, BoP - far as I can tell - really has no other connection to Suicide Squad. WB also made a few generally well received DC movies since then, so the general audience should feel more comfortable going to see a DC movie now than they would have been in the immediate aftermath of Suicide Squad.

Suicide Squad 2 is releasing next summer, and I wouldn't be at all surprised - whether it's earned or not - if that movie does significantly better numbers than BoP, despite actually bearing the full brunt of the negative name recognition.

Eh, you might be right. I drew the connection to Suicide Squad because of the character Harley Quinn, like others here and elsewhere are. Everyone compares this movie against Suicide Squad and the fact that they both have the same main character is definitely the reason. Nonetheless, perhaps the term "sequel" is too literal to be appropriate in the light of a proper Suicide Squad 2 releasing in the near future, like you say.

Still, I can't think of a better explanation for these numbers than the combination of that connection (Birds of Prey's aforementioned connection to Suicide Squad in people's minds) on the one hand and the fact that, like I said before, it's not truly a masterpiece in its own right either, on the other, especially considering that, like it or not, Birds of Prey's small audience has generally liked it better than Suicide Squad by all indications.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 18 February 2020

Jaicee said:
Angelus said:

I'm not sure if blaming the commercial failure of this movie on Suicide Squad is really appropriate here. For all the problems people had with that movie, if there was one positive, it's that people generally came away really liking Margot's Harley Quinn, and outside of her, BoP - far as I can tell - really has no other connection to Suicide Squad. WB also made a few generally well received DC movies since then, so the general audience should feel more comfortable going to see a DC movie now than they would have been in the immediate aftermath of Suicide Squad.

Suicide Squad 2 is releasing next summer, and I wouldn't be at all surprised - whether it's earned or not - if that movie does significantly better numbers than BoP, despite actually bearing the full brunt of the negative name recognition.

Eh, you might be right. I drew the connection to Suicide Squad because of the character Harley Quinn, like others here and elsewhere are. Everyone compares this movie against Suicide Squad and the fact that they both have the same main character is definitely the reason. Nonetheless, perhaps the term "sequel" is too literal to be appropriate in the light of a proper Suicide Squad 2 releasing in the near future, like you say.

Still, I can't think of a better explanation for these numbers than the combination of that connection (Birds of Prey's aforementioned connection to Suicide Squad in people's minds) on the one hand and the fact that, like I said before, it's not truly a masterpiece in its own right either, on the other, especially considering that, like it or not, Birds of Prey's small audience has generally liked it better than Suicide Squad by all indications.

I don't know - I think marketing had a lot to do with it. I had no idea this was releasing until the week of. Plus, Birds of Prey in itself is a less catchy title than Harley Quinn, that's why they tried to rebrand it.