Forums - General Discussion - The LGBT thread (Revisited)

Immersiveunreality said:
Runa216 said:

Yeah, some hot Kratos on Baldur action would be hot, no doubt. Wouldn't make me buy the game, though. I'd LOVE to see that shit on pornhub! 

and dude, you should know better than anyone (Assuming that's you in your avatar, potentially both black and gay) that the question definitely seemed to be very much so a leading question, the kind of question shitty people ask if they're trying to push a very specific narrative. It just seemed like a silly way to ask, is all. 

Seriously, I should get a reality check for trying to shut down what I thought was a disingenuous line of questioning before it gained traction? And, look at this thread: How many people were doing exactly what I was worried you were doing? Defenses are up for a reason, I'm not just flailing about trying to pick fights. I even said at the end that there was a chance this was NOT how you intended it, subtly implying that I knew there was a chance I was off-base and being proactive. 

but hey, I'm the bad bitch here. I'm always the bad bitch no matter where I go because I argue with people. I'm used to being vilified. 

I said it before and i will likely say it again but you are too eager to make negative assumptions about people you do not know and in some cases that is greatly uncalled for because you give offense to the wrong people.

You keep saying it, but it's just plain not true. I am usually an optimistic person, I am usually the person who tries to explain away bad behaviour or justify shitty situations. I'm very much so the kind of person who actually looks for the good in people...

...but my experiences dealing with people on the internet - especially in discussions of gender, sexuality, race, religion, or nationality - have led me to realize that my optimism is wholly misplaced. Too often people play 'devils advocate' or try to guide the narrative by subtly implying things in order to make their point without outright saying things. I've seen far too many strawman arguments to just...not respond appropriately. 

The God of War example just seemed so outlandish and silly to me that it came across like he was trying to mock such a situation. It would not make any sense for God of War to suddenly have Kratos be gay, and the idea of buying a game in a franchise solely because a gay character was put into it seemed so strange to me. I've never met anyone who even considered such a thing, and it seemed far too much like the 'why is x character gay? why does this developer have to force their SJW agenda into the game?!' rhetoric that I see entirely too often. You don't see it, and apparently most people on here don't see it (Clearly I'm the minority), but if that exact same question came out of someone who was anti-gay you know exactly where the argument was going. I had no way of knowing it was coming from a fellow LGBT+ member, I wasn't familiar with him as a person. 



I got it all, baby! 

PS4, Switch, WiiU, XBO, PC
Vita, 3DS, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II

Around the Network
TopCat8 said:
Question: Are gay characters enough to make you buy a new game? For example: You've never played God of War, but the next GoW game gives Kratos a male lover for some reason. Would you become more interested in the franchise?

Well Spiderman having the finally unlock being Peter Parker in his underwear made me REALLY want to work at unlocking it (but then those stupid follow the drone missions killed my dream).



Signature goes here!

TruckOSaurus said:
TopCat8 said:
Question: Are gay characters enough to make you buy a new game? For example: You've never played God of War, but the next GoW game gives Kratos a male lover for some reason. Would you become more interested in the franchise?

Well Spiderman having the finally unlock being Peter Parker in his underwear made me REALLY want to work at unlocking it (but then those stupid follow the drone missions killed my dream).

I on the other hand was very disappointed at that being the final reward.  Although its power is situationally useful.



TruckOSaurus said:
TopCat8 said:
Question: Are gay characters enough to make you buy a new game? For example: You've never played God of War, but the next GoW game gives Kratos a male lover for some reason. Would you become more interested in the franchise?

Well Spiderman having the finally unlock being Peter Parker in his underwear made me REALLY want to work at unlocking it (but then those stupid follow the drone missions killed my dream).

It is more fun to swing around in the Spiderman when he is in his undies. I will agree, if a character is hot, sometimes that does influence me into playing it. Definitely what got me into Uncharted 



Well the lastofus2 leaks shows how bigoted people are. Either they hate gays,bi, or feel like this is a romance game based on dealing with relationships. People need to get all this agenda crap out of their heads when playing a game. Unless someone tries to force you into doing something or believing in something, you should not not be focussing on it, and just enjoy the experience, since it's a game and not something political with real life implications. Playing a game will not alter congress and votes.



Around the Network
TopCat8 said:
Question: Are gay characters enough to make you buy a new game? For example: You've never played God of War, but the next GoW game gives Kratos a male lover for some reason. Would you become more interested in the franchise?

If I bought games just because there were lesbian characters in them then I'd be the proud owner of every "yuri" game they've recently released on the Switch. Yet somehow I have resisted this temptation. I wonder why.

What I want in terms of representation is authenticity; lesbian representation on my terms. I'm not interested in a game that's just intended as a fantasy for straight guys. Yes, I can tell the difference. Easily.



TopCat8 said:
Question: Are gay characters enough to make you buy a new game? For example: You've never played God of War, but the next GoW game gives Kratos a male lover for some reason. Would you become more interested in the franchise?

Sometimes.
The LGBT themes were enough for me to give Dragon Age: Origins a whirl... And that turned out to be one of my favorite games of all time.

It needs to be done with taste and thought, just bolting it on and flaunting the issue in everyones face for the duration of an entire game seems pretty tacky and in my opinion often a detriment to a well-thought-out story, there doesn't need to be a big deal and focus made for or against it, it's just an aspect of a person, it's not the whole person.

I didn't buy Mass Effect for the LGBT themes for instance and I enjoyed it for what it was and I still love that trilogy with or without the LGBT thematics.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Jaicee said:
TopCat8 said:
Question: Are gay characters enough to make you buy a new game? For example: You've never played God of War, but the next GoW game gives Kratos a male lover for some reason. Would you become more interested in the franchise?

If I bought games just because there were lesbian characters in them then I'd be the proud owner of every "yuri" game they've recently released on the Switch. Yet somehow I have resisted this temptation. I wonder why.

What I want in terms of representation is authenticity; lesbian representation on my terms. I'm not interested in a game that's just intended as a fantasy for straight guys. Yes, I can tell the difference. Easily.

oooh! Lemme guess, is it because.....those games are terrible?!

and honestly, I think the best representation is when it's not made out to be a selling point (not doing it for pandering points), not overt (mocking), and not so subtle that it's just there for some checklist. I think one of the best examples of LGBT relationships in any media is...and stick with me here...Deadpool 2. Negasonic Teenage Warhead had a female lover and it wasn't ever mentioned in any of the marketing, it was never super duper in-your-face, they didn't seem to be trying to rub it in anyone's face (Though I think some people need that), and even in-story it was never really brought up as a big deal. wade/Deadpool was like 'you two are cute together', and the most friction came from NTW herself, expecting Wade to be bigoted and preempting his snark only to realize...no, to Wade their love was love. who they loved was irrelevant. as a man who had recently lost the love of his life, he saw they loved each other and their genders/sexes never even seemed to register to him. 

The characters were realistic lesbian lovers who simply existed within the world, and their sexuality - while a present part of their character - was never the crux of their personality or identity. Yuukio was cute, NTW was protective and badass, both were friends to Wade (in a manner of speaking) and allies first. 

As it should be. 

That said, I think that any artist/writer/storyteller of any medium should be able to tell the story they want. I think what matters more is how successful the art is mixed with the intent. If, in the god of War example, they chose to make Kratos gay for whatever reason, they'd have to have a good reason to do so. He has been portrayed as clearly straight for the entirety of the franchise...but he was also a greek god killer and yet the best entry in the franchise happened in the north. If it fit the story and was told tastefully or appropriately, I'd be fine with Kratos being gay as fuuuuuuck. 

IF they made him a flamboyant, limp-wristed stereotype (which I'd expect if he was in, say, Bayonetta...which would be awesome), then I wouldn't respect that on the surface as it would not be accurate to the character and seemingly more of an insult to the past than anything else. 

It all relies on execution of intent. Because now that I think about it, a bayonetta/Kratos crossover where Kratos is gay as hell and over-the-top like Bayonetta would be an absolute riot. I'd love to play that game, him whippin' dudes on the ass with his chains, throwing his axe to behind his lover and recalling it to force said lover into his arms, shit like that. I'd play the hell out of that game. but it'd have to be either deliberately over-the-top or tastefully done. tone, intent, execution, and so many other factors go into making a game's artistic expression work. 

duke Nukem forever was poorly done, and the humour didn't work because it seemed juvenile and immature. Yet, other similarly juvenile and immature comedy works wonderfully because it's done well. Deadpool is a great example. anchorman is a great example. dumb and Dumber is a great example. 

The idea of raging against an 'idea' baffles me. Like, remember way back when the Witcher Netflix series was going to have a potentially non-white Ciri and people lost their fucking minds because 'ciri is white, stop with this SJW crap'? they argued that since the author was polish and polish people are white, that the characters should all be white. that, since the prior adaptations always made her white, that she should be white. None of that mattered - it was just attempts to justify or rationalize bigotry by people who didn't realize that's what they were doing - because the character ended up being white. but you know what? I don't think the character's skin colour was ever relevant to the character. Race is plenty discussed in the world of the Witcher, but it's usually like, humans vs goblins vs elves or whatever, not skin colour. given the comparisons, wouldn't it have been relevant to play with that? 

Remember when Samuel L Jackson was cast as nick fury despite the character always being white in the comics? Guess who's the most iconic nick Fury now...

The 'idea' of addressing those themes in this different way COULD be good. it could also be bad. in the end, it's all about execution and tact and intent and all those various other factors. if you don't like the idea of something, that's fine. you're allowed to be cautious or against something that sounds bad to you. Likewise, you're allowed to like what you like and guide your purchases by whether you feel a game represents you. Everyone has their own criteria. I just don't personally see the value in buying OR boycotting a game just because there's LGBT+ characters in it. 

Politics are tough. You don't win when it comes to politics. At best, you get your way, temporarily. 

but yeah, like, I've never bought a game because of representation, but I've never avoided games for that reason, either. I buy games that are good, and while devs being progressive in their views certainly is a factor, it's never been the tipping point when it came to making a purchase. 

I need to sleep. I write too much.



I got it all, baby! 

PS4, Switch, WiiU, XBO, PC
Vita, 3DS, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II

Runa216 said:
Jaicee said:

If I bought games just because there were lesbian characters in them then I'd be the proud owner of every "yuri" game they've recently released on the Switch. Yet somehow I have resisted this temptation. I wonder why.

What I want in terms of representation is authenticity; lesbian representation on my terms. I'm not interested in a game that's just intended as a fantasy for straight guys. Yes, I can tell the difference. Easily.

oooh! Lemme guess, is it because.....those games are terrible?!

and honestly, I think the best representation is when it's not made out to be a selling point (not doing it for pandering points), not overt (mocking), and not so subtle that it's just there for some checklist. I think one of the best examples of LGBT relationships in any media is...and stick with me here...Deadpool 2. Negasonic Teenage Warhead had a female lover and it wasn't ever mentioned in any of the marketing, it was never super duper in-your-face, they didn't seem to be trying to rub it in anyone's face (Though I think some people need that), and even in-story it was never really brought up as a big deal. wade/Deadpool was like 'you two are cute together', and the most friction came from NTW herself, expecting Wade to be bigoted and preempting his snark only to realize...no, to Wade their love was love. who they loved was irrelevant. as a man who had recently lost the love of his life, he saw they loved each other and their genders/sexes never even seemed to register to him. 

The characters were realistic lesbian lovers who simply existed within the world, and their sexuality - while a present part of their character - was never the crux of their personality or identity. Yuukio was cute, NTW was protective and badass, both were friends to Wade (in a manner of speaking) and allies first. 

As it should be. 

That said, I think that any artist/writer/storyteller of any medium should be able to tell the story they want. I think what matters more is how successful the art is mixed with the intent. If, in the god of War example, they chose to make Kratos gay for whatever reason, they'd have to have a good reason to do so. He has been portrayed as clearly straight for the entirety of the franchise...but he was also a greek god killer and yet the best entry in the franchise happened in the north. If it fit the story and was told tastefully or appropriately, I'd be fine with Kratos being gay as fuuuuuuck. 

IF they made him a flamboyant, limp-wristed stereotype (which I'd expect if he was in, say, Bayonetta...which would be awesome), then I wouldn't respect that on the surface as it would not be accurate to the character and seemingly more of an insult to the past than anything else. 

It all relies on execution of intent. Because now that I think about it, a bayonetta/Kratos crossover where Kratos is gay as hell and over-the-top like Bayonetta would be an absolute riot. I'd love to play that game, him whippin' dudes on the ass with his chains, throwing his axe to behind his lover and recalling it to force said lover into his arms, shit like that. I'd play the hell out of that game. but it'd have to be either deliberately over-the-top or tastefully done. tone, intent, execution, and so many other factors go into making a game's artistic expression work. 

duke Nukem forever was poorly done, and the humour didn't work because it seemed juvenile and immature. Yet, other similarly juvenile and immature comedy works wonderfully because it's done well. Deadpool is a great example. anchorman is a great example. dumb and Dumber is a great example. 

The idea of raging against an 'idea' baffles me. Like, remember way back when the Witcher Netflix series was going to have a potentially non-white Ciri and people lost their fucking minds because 'ciri is white, stop with this SJW crap'? they argued that since the author was polish and polish people are white, that the characters should all be white. that, since the prior adaptations always made her white, that she should be white. None of that mattered - it was just attempts to justify or rationalize bigotry by people who didn't realize that's what they were doing - because the character ended up being white. but you know what? I don't think the character's skin colour was ever relevant to the character. Race is plenty discussed in the world of the Witcher, but it's usually like, humans vs goblins vs elves or whatever, not skin colour. given the comparisons, wouldn't it have been relevant to play with that? 

Remember when Samuel L Jackson was cast as nick fury despite the character always being white in the comics? Guess who's the most iconic nick Fury now...

The 'idea' of addressing those themes in this different way COULD be good. it could also be bad. in the end, it's all about execution and tact and intent and all those various other factors. if you don't like the idea of something, that's fine. you're allowed to be cautious or against something that sounds bad to you. Likewise, you're allowed to like what you like and guide your purchases by whether you feel a game represents you. Everyone has their own criteria. I just don't personally see the value in buying OR boycotting a game just because there's LGBT+ characters in it. 

Politics are tough. You don't win when it comes to politics. At best, you get your way, temporarily. 

but yeah, like, I've never bought a game because of representation, but I've never avoided games for that reason, either. I buy games that are good, and while devs being progressive in their views certainly is a factor, it's never been the tipping point when it came to making a purchase. 

I need to sleep. I write too much.

Nick Fury was black in Marvel's Ultimate line, which was more modern and probably influenced the MCU more than Marvel's 616 continuity.  Ironically, the artist who worked on the series frequently used celebrities as models for characters, and Jackson was clearly the model for the MCU.  The "Ultimates" actually discuss who would play them in movies, and Nick Fury said Samuel L. Jackson.

Because of the MCU and the folding of the Ultimate imprint, they actually made Nick Fury black in Marvel 616... which is ridiculous.  Because the way they did it was by retconning in that he had a son who also happened to be a super spy with an eye patch and was also named Nick Fury.  And when he shows up, people act like he's the only Nick Fury that ever was and it's ridiculous.

The more you know.



axumblade said:
TruckOSaurus said:

Well Spiderman having the finally unlock being Peter Parker in his underwear made me REALLY want to work at unlocking it (but then those stupid follow the drone missions killed my dream).

It is more fun to swing around in the Spiderman when he is in his undies. I will agree, if a character is hot, sometimes that does influence me into playing it. Definitely what got me into Uncharted 

I feel the opposite about Spider-man, but I'm not going to pretend I've never chosen outfits for female characters based on how hot they looked.