Forums - General Discussion - The LGBT thread (Revisited)

SpokenTruth said:
Dante9 said:
How would you define an ally? What is expected of an ally?

My philosophy is to judge people as individuals based on their character and their actions, rather than their sexuality, race or any such thing that one is born with.
In other words, I have nothing against you as a such and I think you should be treated the same as everyone else, but would that be enough to be considered an ally, or is something else required?

It depends upon your actions to "being treated the same as everyone else."

Allies advocate, procure and protect the rights of the LGBT community.

Allies dispel myths and denounce hatred and bigotry against the LGBT community.

Allies recognize their 'default' sexuality in the sociopolitical realm is an unwarranted privilege.

Simply treating people with respect should be the default position for everybody to begin with and, obviously, it's a welcomed approach by the LGBT community but being an ally does require a more direct and active participation.  No different than being an ally for anything else, really. 

The problem comes when you witness (in real life or online) mistreatment, abuse, oppression, etc...and don't speak up.  Silence enables others to continue their negative actions. And if you respect someone's right to be treated the same as everyone else, staying silent is antithetical.

Okay, so pretty much what I was thinking. Not having prejudices personally is good, but an ally is someone that takes a proactive approach to the whole thing. Got it.



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Question: Are gay characters enough to make you buy a new game? For example: You've never played God of War, but the next GoW game gives Kratos a male lover for some reason. Would you become more interested in the franchise?



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TopCat8 said:
Question: Are gay characters enough to make you buy a new game? For example: You've never played God of War, but the next GoW game gives Kratos a male lover for some reason. Would you become more interested in the franchise?

Why would it? I think that'd be interesting, for sure, and given the writing of the last game I'm sure it'd be compelling somehow. (Kratos is Greek, and greeks had male lovers pretty frequently, if you remember history) Nobody's buying *Redacted* because The main character's a lesbian, they're buying it because it's fun and well written. Some people will feel more validated knowing that they are being included, but I can't think of any reason anyone would buy a game solely because there's a gay character in it. that would be silly.

The real question is: would you avoid the next God of War if they did that even if you otherwise loved the prior entries? 

The issue here is that gay folks buy games whether they're represented or not, but probably feel far better respected if they are represented. it's inclusion of minorities, not exclusion of majorities. Straight people (or otherwise bigoted people who are for whatever reason uncomfortable with gay/lesbian/queer folk) will VERY clearly avoid games in order to 'not support an SJW agenda' while trying to frame it as their actions being somehow rebellious or righteous. That's the issue. People who are part of the majority acting like they're being repressed because they are subjected to the reality of gay people existing in their bubble. This was never about 'pandering', it was always about representation. 

The way you phrased your question makes it sound like you were trying REALLY hard to 'gotcha' to whoever responded. Like, the way it was asked made it clear like you had a canned response of 'see? so why would you support this?' if anyone said 'No, it's thematically inappropriate' or something. Maybe you weren't planning that and maybe that was never your intention, but I see all sorts of that all the time on this forum and elsewhere. In time you learn to pick up on what's bait and what's a genuine question. whether it was intended or not, your inquiry sounded like bait to me. 



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Runa216 said:
TopCat8 said:
Question: Are gay characters enough to make you buy a new game? For example: You've never played God of War, but the next GoW game gives Kratos a male lover for some reason. Would you become more interested in the franchise?

Why would it? I think that'd be interesting, for sure, and given the writing of the last game I'm sure it'd be compelling somehow. (Kratos is Greek, and greeks had male lovers pretty frequently, if you remember history) Nobody's buying *Redacted* because The main character's a lesbian, they're buying it because it's fun and well written. Some people will feel more validated knowing that they are being included, but I can't think of any reason anyone would buy a game solely because there's a gay character in it. that would be silly.

The real question is: would you avoid the next God of War if they did that even if you otherwise loved the prior entries? 

The issue here is that gay folks buy games whether they're represented or not, but probably feel far better respected if they are represented. it's inclusion of minorities, not exclusion of majorities. Straight people (or otherwise bigoted people who are for whatever reason uncomfortable with gay/lesbian/queer folk) will VERY clearly avoid games in order to 'not support an SJW agenda' while trying to frame it as their actions being somehow rebellious or righteous. That's the issue. People who are part of the majority acting like they're being repressed because they are subjected to the reality of gay people existing in their bubble. This was never about 'pandering', it was always about representation. 

The way you phrased your question makes it sound like you were trying REALLY hard to 'gotcha' to whoever responded. Like, the way it was asked made it clear like you had a canned response of 'see? so why would you support this?' if anyone said 'No, it's thematically inappropriate' or something. Maybe you weren't planning that and maybe that was never your intention, but I see all sorts of that all the time on this forum and elsewhere. In time you learn to pick up on what's bait and what's a genuine question. whether it was intended or not, your inquiry sounded like bait to me. 

You are too quick to jump on the hate train and that's counterproductive if you are aiming for a goal of more tolerance and understanding.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

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Runa216 said:
TopCat8 said:
Question: Are gay characters enough to make you buy a new game? For example: You've never played God of War, but the next GoW game gives Kratos a male lover for some reason. Would you become more interested in the franchise?

Why would it? I think that'd be interesting, for sure, and given the writing of the last game I'm sure it'd be compelling somehow. (Kratos is Greek, and greeks had male lovers pretty frequently, if you remember history) Nobody's buying *Redacted* because The main character's a lesbian, they're buying it because it's fun and well written. Some people will feel more validated knowing that they are being included, but I can't think of any reason anyone would buy a game solely because there's a gay character in it. that would be silly.

The real question is: would you avoid the next God of War if they did that even if you otherwise loved the prior entries? 

The issue here is that gay folks buy games whether they're represented or not, but probably feel far better respected if they are represented. it's inclusion of minorities, not exclusion of majorities. Straight people (or otherwise bigoted people who are for whatever reason uncomfortable with gay/lesbian/queer folk) will VERY clearly avoid games in order to 'not support an SJW agenda' while trying to frame it as their actions being somehow rebellious or righteous. That's the issue. People who are part of the majority acting like they're being repressed because they are subjected to the reality of gay people existing in their bubble. This was never about 'pandering', it was always about representation. 

The way you phrased your question makes it sound like you were trying REALLY hard to 'gotcha' to whoever responded. Like, the way it was asked made it clear like you had a canned response of 'see? so why would you support this?' if anyone said 'No, it's thematically inappropriate' or something. Maybe you weren't planning that and maybe that was never your intention, but I see all sorts of that all the time on this forum and elsewhere. In time you learn to pick up on what's bait and what's a genuine question. whether it was intended or not, your inquiry sounded like bait to me. 

OMG. I literally just asked a question to start a discussion on something I'm passionate about, but you can think of it however you want to. I already said earlier in this thread that I can be added to the gaymer list, so if you think I'm here TrOlLiNg ThE gAyS or something dumb, you should probably get a reality check. I should have just followed my instincts and not posted on this trainwreck of a thread because I just tried to start a valid discussion, and this is the response I'm met with. I bolded the only meaningful thing you said.

Also, in answer to your "real question", I would be way more likely to buy the next GoW game is there was some hot guy-on-guy action. That's the only thing that could make it any better, tbh.



Add me on Xbox Live: TopCat8

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RolStoppable said:
Runa216 said:

Why would it? I think that'd be interesting, for sure, and given the writing of the last game I'm sure it'd be compelling somehow. (Kratos is Greek, and greeks had male lovers pretty frequently, if you remember history) Nobody's buying *Redacted* because The main character's a lesbian, they're buying it because it's fun and well written. Some people will feel more validated knowing that they are being included, but I can't think of any reason anyone would buy a game solely because there's a gay character in it. that would be silly.

The real question is: would you avoid the next God of War if they did that even if you otherwise loved the prior entries? 

The issue here is that gay folks buy games whether they're represented or not, but probably feel far better respected if they are represented. it's inclusion of minorities, not exclusion of majorities. Straight people (or otherwise bigoted people who are for whatever reason uncomfortable with gay/lesbian/queer folk) will VERY clearly avoid games in order to 'not support an SJW agenda' while trying to frame it as their actions being somehow rebellious or righteous. That's the issue. People who are part of the majority acting like they're being repressed because they are subjected to the reality of gay people existing in their bubble. This was never about 'pandering', it was always about representation. 

The way you phrased your question makes it sound like you were trying REALLY hard to 'gotcha' to whoever responded. Like, the way it was asked made it clear like you had a canned response of 'see? so why would you support this?' if anyone said 'No, it's thematically inappropriate' or something. Maybe you weren't planning that and maybe that was never your intention, but I see all sorts of that all the time on this forum and elsewhere. In time you learn to pick up on what's bait and what's a genuine question. whether it was intended or not, your inquiry sounded like bait to me. 

You are too quick to jump on the hate train and that's counterproductive if you are aiming for a goal of more tolerance and understanding.

I prefer to say that I've seen far too many examples of people being purposefully disingenuous or purposefully misrepresentating the issues to let this sort of thing slip past. 90% of political discourse today starts innocuously enough, with softball questions or leading questions meant to deliberately guide the thought process to a place where they can dictate the narrative. It's exactly the sort of thing that certain political commentators do to cat innocent. 'I'm just asking questions' or 'think about it'. 

It's such a reprehensible way to push shitty political agendas that I am particularly keen on stopping it in its tracks before it gets any momentum. 

I did not know TopCat was a Gaymer. The question was presented in a way it sounded like he was trying to...

wait, why am I responding to Rolstoppable? NOW I took the bait. 



I got it all, baby! 

PS4, Switch, WiiU, XBO, PC
Vita, 3DS, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II

TopCat8 said:
Runa216 said:

Why would it? I think that'd be interesting, for sure, and given the writing of the last game I'm sure it'd be compelling somehow. (Kratos is Greek, and greeks had male lovers pretty frequently, if you remember history) Nobody's buying *Redacted* because The main character's a lesbian, they're buying it because it's fun and well written. Some people will feel more validated knowing that they are being included, but I can't think of any reason anyone would buy a game solely because there's a gay character in it. that would be silly.

The real question is: would you avoid the next God of War if they did that even if you otherwise loved the prior entries? 

The issue here is that gay folks buy games whether they're represented or not, but probably feel far better respected if they are represented. it's inclusion of minorities, not exclusion of majorities. Straight people (or otherwise bigoted people who are for whatever reason uncomfortable with gay/lesbian/queer folk) will VERY clearly avoid games in order to 'not support an SJW agenda' while trying to frame it as their actions being somehow rebellious or righteous. That's the issue. People who are part of the majority acting like they're being repressed because they are subjected to the reality of gay people existing in their bubble. This was never about 'pandering', it was always about representation. 

The way you phrased your question makes it sound like you were trying REALLY hard to 'gotcha' to whoever responded. Like, the way it was asked made it clear like you had a canned response of 'see? so why would you support this?' if anyone said 'No, it's thematically inappropriate' or something. Maybe you weren't planning that and maybe that was never your intention, but I see all sorts of that all the time on this forum and elsewhere. In time you learn to pick up on what's bait and what's a genuine question. whether it was intended or not, your inquiry sounded like bait to me. 

OMG. I literally just asked a question to start a discussion on something I'm passionate about, but you can think of it however you want to. I already said earlier in this thread that I can be added to the gaymer list, so if you think I'm here TrOlLiNg ThE gAyS or something dumb, you should probably get a reality check. I should have just followed my instincts and not posted on this trainwreck of a thread because I just tried to start a valid discussion, and this is the response I'm met with. I bolded the only meaningful thing you said.

Also, in answer to your "real question", I would be way more likely to buy the next GoW game is there was some hot guy-on-guy action. That's the only thing that could make it any better, tbh.

Yeah, some hot Kratos on Baldur action would be hot, no doubt. Wouldn't make me buy the game, though. I'd LOVE to see that shit on pornhub! 

and dude, you should know better than anyone (Assuming that's you in your avatar, potentially both black and gay) that the question definitely seemed to be very much so a leading question, the kind of question shitty people ask if they're trying to push a very specific narrative. It just seemed like a silly way to ask, is all. 

Seriously, I should get a reality check for trying to shut down what I thought was a disingenuous line of questioning before it gained traction? And, look at this thread: How many people were doing exactly what I was worried you were doing? Defenses are up for a reason, I'm not just flailing about trying to pick fights. I even said at the end that there was a chance this was NOT how you intended it, subtly implying that I knew there was a chance I was off-base and being proactive. 

but hey, I'm the bad bitch here. I'm always the bad bitch no matter where I go because I argue with people. I'm used to being vilified. 



I got it all, baby! 

PS4, Switch, WiiU, XBO, PC
Vita, 3DS, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II

Runa216 said:
TopCat8 said:

OMG. I literally just asked a question to start a discussion on something I'm passionate about, but you can think of it however you want to. I already said earlier in this thread that I can be added to the gaymer list, so if you think I'm here TrOlLiNg ThE gAyS or something dumb, you should probably get a reality check. I should have just followed my instincts and not posted on this trainwreck of a thread because I just tried to start a valid discussion, and this is the response I'm met with. I bolded the only meaningful thing you said.

Also, in answer to your "real question", I would be way more likely to buy the next GoW game is there was some hot guy-on-guy action. That's the only thing that could make it any better, tbh.

Yeah, some hot Kratos on Baldur action would be hot, no doubt. Wouldn't make me buy the game, though. I'd LOVE to see that shit on pornhub! 

and dude, you should know better than anyone (Assuming that's you in your avatar, potentially both black and gay) that the question definitely seemed to be very much so a leading question, the kind of question shitty people ask if they're trying to push a very specific narrative. It just seemed like a silly way to ask, is all. 

Seriously, I should get a reality check for trying to shut down what I thought was a disingenuous line of questioning before it gained traction? And, look at this thread: How many people were doing exactly what I was worried you were doing? Defenses are up for a reason, I'm not just flailing about trying to pick fights. I even said at the end that there was a chance this was NOT how you intended it, subtly implying that I knew there was a chance I was off-base and being proactive. 

but hey, I'm the bad bitch here. I'm always the bad bitch no matter where I go because I argue with people. I'm used to being vilified. 

I said it before and i will likely say it again but you are too eager to make negative assumptions about people you do not know and in some cases that is greatly uncalled for because you give offense to the wrong people.



Runa216 said:
TopCat8 said:

OMG. I literally just asked a question to start a discussion on something I'm passionate about, but you can think of it however you want to. I already said earlier in this thread that I can be added to the gaymer list, so if you think I'm here TrOlLiNg ThE gAyS or something dumb, you should probably get a reality check. I should have just followed my instincts and not posted on this trainwreck of a thread because I just tried to start a valid discussion, and this is the response I'm met with. I bolded the only meaningful thing you said.

Also, in answer to your "real question", I would be way more likely to buy the next GoW game is there was some hot guy-on-guy action. That's the only thing that could make it any better, tbh.

Yeah, some hot Kratos on Baldur action would be hot, no doubt. Wouldn't make me buy the game, though. I'd LOVE to see that shit on pornhub! 

and dude, you should know better than anyone (Assuming that's you in your avatar, potentially both black and gay) that the question definitely seemed to be very much so a leading question, the kind of question shitty people ask if they're trying to push a very specific narrative. It just seemed like a silly way to ask, is all. 

Seriously, I should get a reality check for trying to shut down what I thought was a disingenuous line of questioning before it gained traction? And, look at this thread: How many people were doing exactly what I was worried you were doing? Defenses are up for a reason, I'm not just flailing about trying to pick fights. I even said at the end that there was a chance this was NOT how you intended it, subtly implying that I knew there was a chance I was off-base and being proactive. 

but hey, I'm the bad bitch here. I'm always the bad bitch no matter where I go because I argue with people. I'm used to being vilified. 

Not trying to make you get heated or feel attacked in here but please try not to jump to the worst case scenario unless something has actually happened. 



TopCat8 said:
Question: Are gay characters enough to make you buy a new game? For example: You've never played God of War, but the next GoW game gives Kratos a male lover for some reason. Would you become more interested in the franchise?

I wouldn't buy a game specifically just because it has a gay character but if a game that piques my interest already, and the game has LGBT options, I will definitely *ahem* utilize them.