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Forums - General Discussion - The LGBT thread (Revisited)

curl-6 said:

If it makes you feel any better, watch the game sell a gazillion copies and show that these individuals are a vocal minority.

Ah yes, the vocal minority. The last, dwindling numbers of true bigots that have realized their battle with progress is lost and must find a wholly new ground to fight on: False logic and conjured excuses. Rather than outright claim things like 'the gay lifestyle is ruining the culture' or 'it destroys the sanctity of marriage', they complain about people 'pushing an SJW agenda' or how inclusion is actually exclusion for white dudes. 

I hate people, sometimes. I really, really do. The lengths people will go to justify their bigotry is just astoundingly baffling. 



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Runa216 said:
curl-6 said:

If it makes you feel any better, watch the game sell a gazillion copies and show that these individuals are a vocal minority.

Ah yes, the vocal minority. The last, dwindling numbers of true bigots that have realized their battle with progress is lost and must find a wholly new ground to fight on: False logic and conjured excuses. Rather than outright claim things like 'the gay lifestyle is ruining the culture' or 'it destroys the sanctity of marriage', they complain about people 'pushing an SJW agenda' or how inclusion is actually exclusion for white dudes. 

I hate people, sometimes. I really, really do. The lengths people will go to justify their bigotry is just astoundingly baffling. 

Given how much bigotry pisses me off as a straight white dude (a lot) I can only imagine what it's like for LGBT people and folks of colour. 

But yeah, it gives me hope to remember that these people really are on the losing side in the long run; progress always wins in the end, resistance only delays the inevitable. I mean, look at how far we've come in the last fifty years. Being openly gay was one of the ultimate taboos back then, yet now we have same sex marriage enshrined in law. I hope I don't sound patronizing in saying so, but as painfully slow as the process is, we are slowly becoming a more empathetic and compassionate society, I feel.

It's just that, as you say, those on the losing side are getting louder now they know they're losing.



curl-6 said:

If it makes you feel any better, watch the game sell a gazillion copies and show that these individuals are a vocal minority.

I'd find such a development satisfying for sure.



curl-6 said:
Runa216 said:

Ah yes, the vocal minority. The last, dwindling numbers of true bigots that have realized their battle with progress is lost and must find a wholly new ground to fight on: False logic and conjured excuses. Rather than outright claim things like 'the gay lifestyle is ruining the culture' or 'it destroys the sanctity of marriage', they complain about people 'pushing an SJW agenda' or how inclusion is actually exclusion for white dudes. 

I hate people, sometimes. I really, really do. The lengths people will go to justify their bigotry is just astoundingly baffling. 

Given how much bigotry pisses me off as a straight white dude (a lot) I can only imagine what it's like for LGBT people and folks of colour. 

But yeah, it gives me hope to remember that these people really are on the losing side in the long run; progress always wins in the end, resistance only delays the inevitable. I mean, look at how far we've come in the last fifty years. Being openly gay was one of the ultimate taboos back then, yet now we have same sex marriage enshrined in law. I hope I don't sound patronizing in saying so, but as painfully slow as the process is, we are slowly becoming a more empathetic and compassionate society, I feel.

It's just that, as you say, those on the losing side are getting louder now they know they're losing.

I would love to make this (or a variation of this) a rallying cry for the progressive. Dismissing arguments as "You're only passionate because you know you're on the wrong side of history and don't want to be forgotten" or something like that. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Jaicee said:
curl-6 said:

If it makes you feel any better, watch the game sell a gazillion copies and show that these individuals are a vocal minority.

I'd find such a development satisfying for sure.

Well, I think you can rest easy as I can't possibly see TLOU2 not doing huge numbers given its pedigree and the pattern of first party game sales on PS4. I'm quite confident it'll do 20 million plus across PS4 and the inevitably PS5 remaster.

Runa216 said:
curl-6 said:

Given how much bigotry pisses me off as a straight white dude (a lot) I can only imagine what it's like for LGBT people and folks of colour. 

But yeah, it gives me hope to remember that these people really are on the losing side in the long run; progress always wins in the end, resistance only delays the inevitable. I mean, look at how far we've come in the last fifty years. Being openly gay was one of the ultimate taboos back then, yet now we have same sex marriage enshrined in law. I hope I don't sound patronizing in saying so, but as painfully slow as the process is, we are slowly becoming a more empathetic and compassionate society, I feel.

It's just that, as you say, those on the losing side are getting louder now they know they're losing.

I would love to make this (or a variation of this) a rallying cry for the progressive. Dismissing arguments as "You're only passionate because you know you're on the wrong side of history and don't want to be forgotten" or something like that. 

Yeah I honestly think that's where a lot of the hate against progress comes from; people see its inevitable advance and rail against it, and their anger comes from the fact that deep down, they know they can't stop it. It's like being angry about ageing.



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On a positive note, it was recently ruled that sexuality and transgenderness are protected classes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/supreme-court-rules-existing-civil-rights-law-protects-gay-lesbian-n1231018?fbclid=IwAR1GKra1_Gl7XP_v79fMjdmVccpJsu8og4T__x2Tpp2xh7SDLNoZchgbhUw



RolStoppable said:

Most of those posts are funny (at least among those with high upvotes), but I don't look at them as having lesbians/women as their target, but rather IGN's reasonings for giving games high scores. Infamous are IGN's reviews for Grand Theft Auto IV with the line "oscar-worthy dialogues" and one Pokémon game where the review went on and on about water (which resulted in the "too much water" meme). The comments you posted most commonly mock IGN's hyperbole. And sure, there are bound to be some truly hateful posts in the comment sections too, but the world isn't perfect and it will never be.

If you get upset over every kind of joke that involves gay people in some form, then you won't ever get close to acceptance of lesbians as normal people, because it's a demand to make lesbians a topic that is taboo. Go watch some Will & Grace to lighten up. Your takeaway is either going to be that jokes involving gay people, including self-depreciating humor, are fine just like for other kinds of people or that gay sitcoms are just as bad as all other sitcoms. But either way, the conclusion would be steering towards normality.

Oh I have a sense of humor. For example, when I read the bolded item, I laughed hysterically at the desperation of it because I AM a lesbian.

Look I can take a joke. But I'm also a human being. I do still have feelings, and limits, you know?



RolStoppable said:

Jaicee said:

Oh I have a sense of humor. For example, when I read the bolded item, I laughed hysterically at the desperation of it because I AM a lesbian.

Look I can take a joke. But I'm also a human being. I do still have feelings, and limits, you know?

As both of you have misunderstood the point I was trying to get across, it wasn't about getting a sense of humor. Lightening up is about general attitude, namely if you expect to encounter hate for things you like, then you'll find hate even in the tiniest things. In its most pronounced form, that's the attitude that oppressed white males have, so they take offense to things where other people wouldn't even get the slightest idea of discrimination. Or as another example, if you constantly expect that the world is going to turn into shit, then you'll post reactions to political events like CaptainExplosion does. That's why you should lighten up or else you might turn into an ultra-defensive person over time.

Not to disparage the good captain, but I think most people would pretty easily be able to tell the difference between a random post authored by me and one authored by him without benefit of attached usernames. There is much we may share in common, but styles of communication aren't among them and that's pretty obvious.

Anyway, more directly to your point/case, I don't know if people perceive me as being the heavy-handed sort or not, but I certainly don't try to be. Matter-of-factly, I DON'T give voice to most of the things that irk me. I let the vast majority of it slide because I often feel like saying anything isn't worth it because it will likely just provoke a wildly disproportionate backlash. I don't go around "calling people out" for their latest slip of the tongue or whatever. There are some people on these forums who have habits like that, but I'm not one of them. And I report nothing. I also censored my post we're referencing a lot. My first instinct was to write a long string of swear words, but I opted to compose myself enough to write a coherent response instead. I go out of my way not to be seen as hypersensitive, or like a stereotypical "SJW" or what have you.

None of this, however, means that I don't have feelings, or that my words don't necessarily have the unseen context of my day at work or of hunger or stress over bills or a wave of tremendous loneliness or just feeling like I'm a total failure at life or my depression getting to me. Not to get too dark here, but the truth is that I spend much of a typical day trying to find little reasons to go on. Any and all of that pain, anxiety, and frustration might find indirect expression sometimes in my writings here. Sometimes reading a bunch of blatantly misogynistic comments that serve to ruin the one thing I felt like I had to look forward to that day just serves as the icing on the cake that makes me feel like I'm being made fun of by a whole community of people I associate myself with and makes me feel like I simply must have some sympathy from somebody somewhere. And then people like yourself tell me that can't have that and that I'm a wimpy snowflake (as politely as you can manage).



I was curious about this whole comments issue and figured I'd check some things out. I've had a look at YouTube comments for The Last of Us 2, FFVII:R, Resident Evil 3:Remake and Red Dead Redemption 2 and Half-life Alyx.

TLOU2 is the only one featuring these meme-ing on IGN type comments. I thought it might be reserved for 10/10 games so that's why I checked RDR2 and HL:A but comments are mostly serious there. Same for FFVII:R and RE3:R. It's nothing conclusive because my survey was very fast but it does seem TLOU2 has been targeted for some reason.

Even the comments that are not bashing Ellie's sexuality seem to be suggesting that IGN has been bought by either Sony or Naughty Dog :

"This review has been approved by Naughty Dog and Sony" 10/10 - IGN
“We were once considered respectable journalists in the game industry.” 10/10 IGN

Mixed into that there's people trashing ND for their bad treatment of their developers.

So, I do feel there's a crowd of people attacking the game because of its "agenda" and that it wouldn't have happened had the game featured Joel as the protagonist. It's sad to see how popular those comments are (even if it's mostly stupid teenagers upvoting).

Last edited by TruckOSaurus - on 17 June 2020

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The problem with the internet is it gives a platform and a megaphone to the loudest loudmouths, which also tend to be the more extreme, aggressive, and dick-ish types.

It's best to remember that something a comments section, especially on an IGN review, is very much a bubble, not a vertical slice of the real world.

I mean, remember when it seemed like the whole world hated Pokemon Sword/Shield and was going to boycott it, but then it went on to set a new launch record in sales? It's like that, outspoken gamers are a vocal minority within a vocal minority, thankfully.

Don't get me wrong, these kind of comments are still shit and there are a lot of homophobes and douchebags in the world, but the internet paints a bleaker picture than is actually true because the loudest 1% shout over the other 99% who have better things to do than post trash on a youtube game review.