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Forums - Sales Discussion - Nintendo Switch accomplishes the sweep in the USA in 2019

I love the redefinition of what the switch is, each time it smashes some kind of sales record. The ones saying, why not add vita sales to... wow. Yeah, that's relevant. Here's the facts. The switch, is a singular system. No matter how you spin it. It's not combining anything, it's the switch market. The switch just sold over 20 million systems in 2019. Not because it's the wiiu and 3ds... but because it's the switch. Move those goal posts as you will, whatever makes you sleep at night. The fact is, the switch is one system, selling games to one market, it's own. The rest? That's nothing but pure bullshit.... and you know it.



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EricHiggin said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Yeah, the "handheld market" isn't really a separate market. They're just gamers like everyone else. It's that kind of silly thinking that leads to people making statements like "Switch is a failure if it doesn't sell as much as the Wii + DS combined". That kind of stuff is just ridiculous.

Plus, if you want to be pedantic about it then one could argue that the PS Vita was essentially a PS4 handheld due to the remote play feature. How many sales exactly did that "add"?

I'm not one who believes that Switch would be a failure if it doesn't match Wii(U)+DS sales combined, but I would certainly say that's certainly a more direct comparison than comparing Switch+Lite vs PS4+Pro. It's more like the arguments of counting XB games/services on PC with XB consoles. Which if you're going to combine all sales related to products in the Switch family, then why not all in the Xbox family? 

I'm not putting Switch or Lite down, I think their success is great. I'm just saying that pointing out they won the year undefeated isn't really an honest point, especially when comparing it to the past where even Nin sales were always separate due to the differing markets. If next year SNY slaps a PS logo on their phones, and ports a couple PS4 games over, do those sales count towards PS4? When those total sales beat Switch sales for at least one month if not more, would that seem honest and fair to take a yearly sweep away from them? I'd say obviously not because a phone is not a console, but a handheld is also not a hybrid or console, which is still up for debate to some.

While this point is mainly moot, then why wasn't Vita combined in the first place? Why does it only make sense to possibly go back and count it now? I thought handheld and console markets weren't separate.

So Switch has to pass Wii+DS sales now?

Does that mean we need to compare PS4 sales to the combined PS2+PSP sales? Both are 2 generations older than PS4 just like Wii and DS are with Switch.



tag:"reviews only matter for the real hardcore gamer"

Nu-13 said:
EricHiggin said:

I'm not one who believes that Switch would be a failure if it doesn't match Wii(U)+DS sales combined, but I would certainly say that's certainly a more direct comparison than comparing Switch+Lite vs PS4+Pro. It's more like the arguments of counting XB games/services on PC with XB consoles. Which if you're going to combine all sales related to products in the Switch family, then why not all in the Xbox family? 

I'm not putting Switch or Lite down, I think their success is great. I'm just saying that pointing out they won the year undefeated isn't really an honest point, especially when comparing it to the past where even Nin sales were always separate due to the differing markets. If next year SNY slaps a PS logo on their phones, and ports a couple PS4 games over, do those sales count towards PS4? When those total sales beat Switch sales for at least one month if not more, would that seem honest and fair to take a yearly sweep away from them? I'd say obviously not because a phone is not a console, but a handheld is also not a hybrid or console, which is still up for debate to some.

While this point is mainly moot, then why wasn't Vita combined in the first place? Why does it only make sense to possibly go back and count it now? I thought handheld and console markets weren't separate.

This is exactly what you are doing and looks terrible. The nintendo switch was the video game system that sold more hardware by far in 2019. This is a plain fact.

curl-6 said:
EricHiggin said:

I'm not one who believes that Switch would be a failure if it doesn't match Wii(U)+DS sales combined, but I would certainly say that's certainly a more direct comparison than comparing Switch+Lite vs PS4+Pro. It's more like the arguments of counting XB games/services on PC with XB consoles. Which if you're going to combine all sales related to products in the Switch family, then why not all in the Xbox family? 

I'm not putting Switch or Lite down, I think their success is great. I'm just saying that pointing out they won the year undefeated isn't really an honest point, especially when comparing it to the past where even Nin sales were always separate due to the differing markets. If next year SNY slaps a PS logo on their phones, and ports a couple PS4 games over, do those sales count towards PS4? When those total sales beat Switch sales for at least one month if not more, would that seem honest and fair to take a yearly sweep away from them? I'd say obviously not because a phone is not a console, but a handheld is also not a hybrid or console, which is still up for debate to some.

While this point is mainly moot, then why wasn't Vita combined in the first place? Why does it only make sense to possibly go back and count it now? I thought handheld and console markets weren't separate.

Gotta love how what used to be "Wii U + 3DS combined" has now changed to "Wii + DS combined" now that it's clear it is going to pass the former threshold. Gotta keep moving those goalposts so you can downplay the opponent brand's success.

brute said:
EricHiggin said:

I'm not one who believes that Switch would be a failure if it doesn't match Wii(U)+DS sales combined, but I would certainly say that's certainly a more direct comparison than comparing Switch+Lite vs PS4+Pro. It's more like the arguments of counting XB games/services on PC with XB consoles. Which if you're going to combine all sales related to products in the Switch family, then why not all in the Xbox family? 

I'm not putting Switch or Lite down, I think their success is great. I'm just saying that pointing out they won the year undefeated isn't really an honest point, especially when comparing it to the past where even Nin sales were always separate due to the differing markets. If next year SNY slaps a PS logo on their phones, and ports a couple PS4 games over, do those sales count towards PS4? When those total sales beat Switch sales for at least one month if not more, would that seem honest and fair to take a yearly sweep away from them? I'd say obviously not because a phone is not a console, but a handheld is also not a hybrid or console, which is still up for debate to some.

While this point is mainly moot, then why wasn't Vita combined in the first place? Why does it only make sense to possibly go back and count it now? I thought handheld and console markets weren't separate.

So Switch has to pass Wii+DS sales now?

Does that mean we need to compare PS4 sales to the combined PS2+PSP sales? Both are 2 generations older than PS4 just like Wii and DS are with Switch.

Who brought up the Wii + DS combined?...  Wii(U) counts as both Wii and Wii U btw.

EricHiggin said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Yeah, the "handheld market" isn't really a separate market. They're just gamers like everyone else. It's that kind of silly thinking that leads to people making statements like "Switch is a failure if it doesn't sell as much as the Wii + DS combined". That kind of stuff is just ridiculous.

Plus, if you want to be pedantic about it then one could argue that the PS Vita was essentially a PS4 handheld due to the remote play feature. How many sales exactly did that "add"?

I'm not one who believes that Switch would be a failure if it doesn't match Wii(U)+DS sales combined, but I would certainly say that's certainly a more direct comparison than comparing Switch+Lite vs PS4+Pro. It's more like the arguments of counting XB games/services on PC with XB consoles. Which if you're going to combine all sales related to products in the Switch family, then why not all in the Xbox family? 

I'm not putting Switch or Lite down, I think their success is great. I'm just saying that pointing out they won the year undefeated isn't really an honest point, especially when comparing it to the past where even Nin sales were always separate due to the differing markets. If next year SNY slaps a PS logo on their phones, and ports a couple PS4 games over, do those sales count towards PS4? When those total sales beat Switch sales for at least one month if not more, would that seem honest and fair to take a yearly sweep away from them? I'd say obviously not because a phone is not a console, but a handheld is also not a hybrid or console, which is still up for debate to some.

While this point is mainly moot, then why wasn't Vita combined in the first place? Why does it only make sense to possibly go back and count it now? I thought handheld and console markets weren't separate.

Would it also be fair to say that Toyota swept Tesla this year when it comes to NA automotive sales?

I mean Toyota basically has a type of vehicle for every need, while Tesla only has a handful that are purely electric. Toyota's been selling trucks now for how long, and Tesla won't be selling their first model for a couple years yet. Toyota has also been around in the auto market much longer than Tesla, but that obviously doesn't matter either.

Better yet, let's just compare all Toyota truck sales to Tesla truck sales. Wait, Tesla doesn't have a truck for sale to directly compete? They are both auto's though correct? Well I guess Toyota sweeps that comparison as well then. Congrats Toyota!

I'm not trying to put down Toyota or Tesla here either. Both are great brands and their success is a good thing. However comparing them like this just makes no sense, and it should be apparent why.



EricHiggin said:
Nu-13 said:

This is exactly what you are doing and looks terrible. The nintendo switch was the video game system that sold more hardware by far in 2019. This is a plain fact.

curl-6 said:

Gotta love how what used to be "Wii U + 3DS combined" has now changed to "Wii + DS combined" now that it's clear it is going to pass the former threshold. Gotta keep moving those goalposts so you can downplay the opponent brand's success.

brute said:

So Switch has to pass Wii+DS sales now?

Does that mean we need to compare PS4 sales to the combined PS2+PSP sales? Both are 2 generations older than PS4 just like Wii and DS are with Switch.

Who brought up the Wii + DS combined?...  Wii(U) counts as both Wii and Wii U btw.

EricHiggin said:

I'm not one who believes that Switch would be a failure if it doesn't match Wii(U)+DS sales combined, but I would certainly say that's certainly a more direct comparison than comparing Switch+Lite vs PS4+Pro. It's more like the arguments of counting XB games/services on PC with XB consoles. Which if you're going to combine all sales related to products in the Switch family, then why not all in the Xbox family? 

I'm not putting Switch or Lite down, I think their success is great. I'm just saying that pointing out they won the year undefeated isn't really an honest point, especially when comparing it to the past where even Nin sales were always separate due to the differing markets. If next year SNY slaps a PS logo on their phones, and ports a couple PS4 games over, do those sales count towards PS4? When those total sales beat Switch sales for at least one month if not more, would that seem honest and fair to take a yearly sweep away from them? I'd say obviously not because a phone is not a console, but a handheld is also not a hybrid or console, which is still up for debate to some.

While this point is mainly moot, then why wasn't Vita combined in the first place? Why does it only make sense to possibly go back and count it now? I thought handheld and console markets weren't separate.

Would it also be fair to say that Toyota swept Tesla this year when it comes to NA automotive sales?

I mean Toyota basically has a type of vehicle for every need, while Tesla only has a handful that are purely electric. Toyota's been selling trucks now for how long, and Tesla won't be selling their first model for a couple years yet. Toyota has also been around in the auto market much longer than Tesla, but that obviously doesn't matter either.

Better yet, let's just compare all Toyota truck sales to Tesla truck sales. Wait, Tesla doesn't have a truck for sale to directly compete? They are both auto's though correct? Well I guess Toyota sweeps that comparison as well then. Congrats Toyota!

I'm not trying to put down Toyota or Tesla here either. Both are great brands and their success is a good thing. However comparing them like this just makes no sense, and it should be apparent why.

I wont pretend to know what you're trying to say here... so, is nintendo Tesla? Or is sony? Because that analogy doesnt make sense any which way you spin it or slice it. And, when the vita has the ps4 library on it's own, without a ps4 pushing the games, then you can count vita systems with ps4.... the analogy is pure bunk.... and you know it.  The switch isnt two systems. It's one. The switch isnt two markets... it's one. They sell to gamers. If making sub markets helps you cope with.. I dont know what, then good. Until anyone can figure out what it is you're saying... we will all be in the dark. The one thing that's crystal clear? The switch is crushing it it, and is just one system doing it all..... 



SwitchUP said:
EricHiggin said:

Who brought up the Wii + DS combined?...  Wii(U) counts as both Wii and Wii U btw.

Would it also be fair to say that Toyota swept Tesla this year when it comes to NA automotive sales?

I mean Toyota basically has a type of vehicle for every need, while Tesla only has a handful that are purely electric. Toyota's been selling trucks now for how long, and Tesla won't be selling their first model for a couple years yet. Toyota has also been around in the auto market much longer than Tesla, but that obviously doesn't matter either.

Better yet, let's just compare all Toyota truck sales to Tesla truck sales. Wait, Tesla doesn't have a truck for sale to directly compete? They are both auto's though correct? Well I guess Toyota sweeps that comparison as well then. Congrats Toyota!

I'm not trying to put down Toyota or Tesla here either. Both are great brands and their success is a good thing. However comparing them like this just makes no sense, and it should be apparent why.

I wont pretend to know what you're trying to say here... so, is nintendo Tesla? Or is sony? Because that analogy doesnt make sense any which way you spin it or slice it. And, when the vita has the ps4 library on it's own, without a ps4 pushing the games, then you can count vita systems with ps4.... the analogy is pure bunk.... and you know it.  The switch isnt two systems. It's one. The switch isnt two markets... it's one. They sell to gamers. If making sub markets helps you cope with.. I dont know what, then good. Until anyone can figure out what it is you're saying... we will all be in the dark. The one thing that's crystal clear? The switch is crushing it it, and is just one system doing it all..... 

The point is Toyota and Tesla are both automotive brands, like how Nin, PS, and XB are gaming brands. Toyota has all types of different vehicles, kind of like how Switch has two types of different gaming devices. Tesla has just a handful of specifically electric cars, like how PS4 and XB1 only have one specific type of gaming device. Comparing the auto brands or the gaming brands in this sense is a lost cause because there is way too much differentiation. To give praise or congratulate Toyota for beating Tesla here practically makes praise irrelevant. Yet both companies are doing great things and should be congratulated on their own merits nonetheless.

Not sure if this is legit or you're just pulling my chain anyway. I mean, you ended with a ..... instead of a ! like you should have based on your suggested assertive point, so.



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EricHiggin said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Yeah, the "handheld market" isn't really a separate market. They're just gamers like everyone else. It's that kind of silly thinking that leads to people making statements like "Switch is a failure if it doesn't sell as much as the Wii + DS combined". That kind of stuff is just ridiculous.

Plus, if you want to be pedantic about it then one could argue that the PS Vita was essentially a PS4 handheld due to the remote play feature. How many sales exactly did that "add"?

I'm not one who believes that Switch would be a failure if it doesn't match Wii(U)+DS sales combined, but I would certainly say that's certainly a more direct comparison than comparing Switch+Lite vs PS4+Pro. It's more like the arguments of counting XB games/services on PC with XB consoles. Which if you're going to combine all sales related to products in the Switch family, then why not all in the Xbox family? 

I'm not putting Switch or Lite down, I think their success is great. I'm just saying that pointing out they won the year undefeated isn't really an honest point, especially when comparing it to the past where even Nin sales were always separate due to the differing markets. If next year SNY slaps a PS logo on their phones, and ports a couple PS4 games over, do those sales count towards PS4? When those total sales beat Switch sales for at least one month if not more, would that seem honest and fair to take a yearly sweep away from them? I'd say obviously not because a phone is not a console, but a handheld is also not a hybrid or console, which is still up for debate to some.

While this point is mainly moot, then why wasn't Vita combined in the first place? Why does it only make sense to possibly go back and count it now? I thought handheld and console markets weren't separate.

Uh ? Sir, the Switch lite is literally the same console that plays 99% of classic Switch games just without the home console aspect. People were criticizing counting PS4 pro and Xbox one X at one point cause it's not just a slim version but adds power and options, this time it's adding more portability. The lite is just a some sort of a "slim" version of the Switch. Literally what does it change that we count the lite towards Switch sales (as we should....), should we also seperate the pro versions of the others then ? 

Anyway, Switch classic came out on top every other month before the release of the lite and i'm pretty sure it would have had the whole year without it.



xMetroid said:
EricHiggin said:

I'm not one who believes that Switch would be a failure if it doesn't match Wii(U)+DS sales combined, but I would certainly say that's certainly a more direct comparison than comparing Switch+Lite vs PS4+Pro. It's more like the arguments of counting XB games/services on PC with XB consoles. Which if you're going to combine all sales related to products in the Switch family, then why not all in the Xbox family? 

I'm not putting Switch or Lite down, I think their success is great. I'm just saying that pointing out they won the year undefeated isn't really an honest point, especially when comparing it to the past where even Nin sales were always separate due to the differing markets. If next year SNY slaps a PS logo on their phones, and ports a couple PS4 games over, do those sales count towards PS4? When those total sales beat Switch sales for at least one month if not more, would that seem honest and fair to take a yearly sweep away from them? I'd say obviously not because a phone is not a console, but a handheld is also not a hybrid or console, which is still up for debate to some.

While this point is mainly moot, then why wasn't Vita combined in the first place? Why does it only make sense to possibly go back and count it now? I thought handheld and console markets weren't separate.

Uh ? Sir, the Switch lite is literally the same console that plays 99% of classic Switch games just without the home console aspect. People were criticizing counting PS4 pro and Xbox one X at one point cause it's not just a slim version but adds power and options, this time it's adding more portability. The lite is just a some sort of a "slim" version of the Switch. Literally what does it change that we count the lite towards Switch sales (as we should....), should we also seperate the pro versions of the others then ? 

Anyway, Switch classic came out on top every other month before the release of the lite and i'm pretty sure it would have had the whole year without it.

I would separate it all if possible, but I also understand why it isn't being separated here. It's not my decision whether it's split or not, but it is my decision whether or not I agree with the comparisons made because of it. 

In terms of Switch sweeping an entire year, "I'm pretty sure it would have had the whole year without it", isn't a legit excuse. Mostly because all it would take is for Switch to sell just 1 less unit than PS or MS in a month, and it 'loses the sweep'. Probably doesn't cut it, especially when there's a new product that's built up a ton of hype around the brand.

Either way it doesn't really matter. Switch automatically wins and sweeps the year since there is no hybrid competition.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 05 January 2020

It's funny how there's no problem acknowledging nintendo is competing when they lose (N64, GC, Wii U). But lucifer forbids they win, all sorts of mental gymnastics begin: The wii is for casuals; it doesn't compete; it is too weak; the switch is a handheld; the switch is 2 markets... It's really a shame to see this type of behaviour.

There's nothing hard in admitting simple facts. The switch is one console competing in the video game market and is currently winning in hardware sales. Congrats to it and now let's see how the market will get in the next few years.



EricHiggin said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Yeah, the "handheld market" isn't really a separate market. They're just gamers like everyone else. It's that kind of silly thinking that leads to people making statements like "Switch is a failure if it doesn't sell as much as the Wii + DS combined". That kind of stuff is just ridiculous.

Plus, if you want to be pedantic about it then one could argue that the PS Vita was essentially a PS4 handheld due to the remote play feature. How many sales exactly did that "add"?

I'm not one who believes that Switch would be a failure if it doesn't match Wii(U)+DS sales combined, but I would certainly say that's certainly a more direct comparison than comparing Switch+Lite vs PS4+Pro. It's more like the arguments of counting XB games/services on PC with XB consoles. Which if you're going to combine all sales related to products in the Switch family, then why not all in the Xbox family? 

I'm not putting Switch or Lite down, I think their success is great. I'm just saying that pointing out they won the year undefeated isn't really an honest point, especially when comparing it to the past where even Nin sales were always separate due to the differing markets. If next year SNY slaps a PS logo on their phones, and ports a couple PS4 games over, do those sales count towards PS4? When those total sales beat Switch sales for at least one month if not more, would that seem honest and fair to take a yearly sweep away from them? I'd say obviously not because a phone is not a console, but a handheld is also not a hybrid or console, which is still up for debate to some.

While this point is mainly moot, then why wasn't Vita combined in the first place? Why does it only make sense to possibly go back and count it now? I thought handheld and console markets weren't separate.

The type of mental gymnastics it takes to come up with a post like this ...wow #SimoneBiles



curl-6 said:

Gotta love how what used to be "Wii U + 3DS combined" has now changed to "Wii + DS combined" now that it's clear it is going to pass the former threshold. Gotta keep moving those goalposts so you can downplay the opponent brand's success.

This sounds like something of a strawman to me, as do a lot of "someone else said something different so that means YOU are moving goalposts" arguments.  You can always find different statements from different people.  

I don't think there is anyone who would argue that the Wii U represented a healthy or even viable baseline for Nintendo.  No goalposts should be set there, to begin with.  Bettering those numbers should be an expectation.  On the other hand, I don't think the Wii represented a normal baseline, either, so a new console certainly doesn't need to reach those heights to be successful.

As for the core of the "combined" argument itself, a merged product line does need to cover projected lost profit to some degree, though that would really be held against Nintendo itself rather than the Switch.  What makes that murky is the idea that Nintendo faced declining sales in both the handheld and home console markets, which means we really have no idea where the real baseline would end up.

If I were running Nintendo, I'd want strong hardware sales in other to keep production costs low, but I really wouldn't care about any sort of comparisons to "home+handheld" numbers.  I would absolutely analyze the economic pluses and minuses of running two hardware production lines against one production line, obviously, but I think a totally new product has to establish its own numbers.  

Software is a different beast.  It would absolutely need to generate strong profitability compared to "home+handheld" numbers.  A drop in revenue is understandable but the final margins need to be higher.

However, at the end of the day, there was one overwhelmingly serious need that Nintendo had to address this generation: engaging new consumers.  They said themselves that this was a hugely important issue for them and most of their other measures had failed, as they were mainly depending on a carryover audience.  I know I criticized the cheap plastic toy things, and with good reason.  That the Switch seems to be a major success in that area really transcends the numbers.  This was both what they really wanted and really needed.  Nintendo has to be pleased and relieved--though not too relieved, as we know success in one generation shouldn't be taken for granted in the next. 

Now, that being said, in dick-waving threads like this, especially when the dick-waving is about beating two product lines already slated for replacement, I think people pointing out negative factors is totally fair game.