Forums - Gaming Discussion - Eurogamer: PS5 and Xbox Series X Spec Leak.

exclusive_console said:
Otter said:

Most will be 4k at first only because we will be looking at cross gen games which are built to run on PS4/Xbox One at 900/1080p, after that I think its highly unlikely.

Ultimately you do not need games to be native 4k to market the system as a 4k system, we have proof of this in PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. PS4 Pro barely ever hits 4k and the majority of 3rd party Xbox One X games miss native 4k too. Stunning graphics trumps pixel counts in terms of marketing what next gen is about, even Hellblade 2's trailer was not a native 4k pixel count because cinematic presentation was more important.

We've seen it already with the pro systems, but performance modes will be even more common next gen where resolution is either locked at 1080p or made dynamic (going as low as 1080p) in order to hit 60fps.

Also as far as Raytracing goes we've already seen Metro exodus show how ray traced global illumination can have a much stronger visual impact than the selective reflection we see in BF5, I think continued innovation in its application will surprise people once its actually part of the console landscape

I will be happy if native 4K is dropped by devs. Resource killer IMO and yes you are right Pro was marketed as 4K and was doing good so hopefully this gen will be same. I prefer gfx over resolution and most PC gamers barely game on 4K either. Certain games like racing, sports, fighting etc I am sure they can get 4K native. As far as RT goes I am not sure TBH. Most people seems to be hating the RTX and calling it unwanted. I am not sure console are going to be special and it is also taxing on the hardware. But I like RT and probably will prefer it over resolution. So let us see how it goes.

Even though I also mentioned the gap to Xbox seem rather big. Price and games has always been the deciding factor and it is going to be same next gen. It will also be good if Microsoft can put up some sort of competition next gen.

Considering RT on the consoles will be a designated part of the HW, not using RT will probably just make that part unused instead of working in something else.

About the gfx x resolution, they will have to find the balance to have the best IQ overall.



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shikamaru317 said:

Radeon 7 is last gen tech, GCN, Graphics Core Next. 5700XT and the next-gen consoles are using RDNA, not GCN. 5700 XT was not designed as a replacement for the Radeon 7, it was designed to sit one performance bracket down from the Radeon 7, it is only 10 tflop to the Radeon 7’s 13 tflop, that is the only reason why it is performing under the Radeon 7, and even then it still comes very close to Radeon 7 in some games like The Division 2 and Forza Horizon 4, which you can see in the pics I just linked. You can safely assume that when AMD releases a 13 tflop RDNA card, likely later this year, that it will beat the Radeon 7 by a decent margin, because RDNA is definitely a step up from GCN in terms of real world vs flops performance. 

50% weaker than 2080ti? I hardly think so, 12 tflop of RDNA should fall around 2080 tier in performance, and that is on PC. Console games get extra optimization compared PC games.Taking into account console optimization, multiplat games on XSX should perform about the same as they do on a PC running a 2080ti. Even this rumored 9.2 tflop PS5 would likely come within 25% of a 2080ti PC taking into account console optimization.

RDNA via Navi on the PC is a hybrid GPU design that sits between RDNA 2 and Graphics Core Next, it still retains the full Graphics Core Next instruction set.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDNA_(microarchitecture)

Trumpstyle said:

If you use 4 Memory controllers it only gives 448GB/s bandwidth, it's to low for 12TF GPU. Or Microsoft do you as you suggest, 5 memory controllers for 560GB/s memory speed with 20GB Vram, but instead mix 1GB and 2GB sticks for total 16GB Vram and save themself a lot of money. I think you agree with that.

Might have more memory controllers. You simply don't know anything yet... So would be good if you can stop asserting something as fact before you have all your ducks in a row.

Trumpstyle said:

It doesn't matter what speed they have, they will load games in 2 seconds no matter what. What matters is, will Lockhart sell with no Disc-player? Is the price of Xbox series X to high compared to PS5? I think microsoft must launch that console at $450 to compete with PS5.

Xbox consoles at 1.5GB/s speed?

PS5 at 2.5GB/s speed?

We don't even have the consoles on the market, there are no benchmarks, we don't even know how fast the SSD is.

But just because it has an SSD, doesn't mean there won't be a load time... There are games that use procedural generation which require very little in regards to transfers from storage to system memory, but require a ton of processing time to generate assets. (No Mans Land is an example.)

Consoles like the Switch are all solid state, still have load times.

Again, 2 seconds is a bold claim, you should stop asserting something as fact when you don't have all your ducks in a row, this is why there are people out in the world who believe sunscreen causes cancer, vaccines cause autism, there is no climate change, the world is flat... And more, because they assert something as fact without having all the details/evidence.

Trumpstyle said:

Looks like you know a lot about this stuff, Sony/Microsoft are supposed to use optimized NVMe to reduce loading much faster than what is possible on PC.

What is so optimized about it? Please. Fill us in.

DonFerrari said:

Considering RT on the consoles will be a designated part of the HW, not using RT will probably just make that part unused instead of working in something else.

About the gfx x resolution, they will have to find the balance to have the best IQ overall.

There is the potential to use the Ray Tracing cores for non-Ray Tracing tasks, it depends on how flexible AMD makes those cores.

Potentially though if the Ray Tracing cores are going unused, AMD could then repurpose that TDP and drive up clockrates to the rest of the chip... Either way, that is just hypothesizing, we will need to wait and see of course.



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Pemalite said:
shikamaru317 said:

Radeon 7 is last gen tech, GCN, Graphics Core Next. 5700XT and the next-gen consoles are using RDNA, not GCN. 5700 XT was not designed as a replacement for the Radeon 7, it was designed to sit one performance bracket down from the Radeon 7, it is only 10 tflop to the Radeon 7’s 13 tflop, that is the only reason why it is performing under the Radeon 7, and even then it still comes very close to Radeon 7 in some games like The Division 2 and Forza Horizon 4, which you can see in the pics I just linked. You can safely assume that when AMD releases a 13 tflop RDNA card, likely later this year, that it will beat the Radeon 7 by a decent margin, because RDNA is definitely a step up from GCN in terms of real world vs flops performance. 

50% weaker than 2080ti? I hardly think so, 12 tflop of RDNA should fall around 2080 tier in performance, and that is on PC. Console games get extra optimization compared PC games.Taking into account console optimization, multiplat games on XSX should perform about the same as they do on a PC running a 2080ti. Even this rumored 9.2 tflop PS5 would likely come within 25% of a 2080ti PC taking into account console optimization.

RDNA via Navi on the PC is a hybrid GPU design that sits between RDNA 2 and Graphics Core Next, it still retains the full Graphics Core Next instruction set.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDNA_(microarchitecture)

Trumpstyle said:

If you use 4 Memory controllers it only gives 448GB/s bandwidth, it's to low for 12TF GPU. Or Microsoft do you as you suggest, 5 memory controllers for 560GB/s memory speed with 20GB Vram, but instead mix 1GB and 2GB sticks for total 16GB Vram and save themself a lot of money. I think you agree with that.

Might have more memory controllers. You simply don't know anything yet... So would be good if you can stop asserting something as fact before you have all your ducks in a row.

Trumpstyle said:

It doesn't matter what speed they have, they will load games in 2 seconds no matter what. What matters is, will Lockhart sell with no Disc-player? Is the price of Xbox series X to high compared to PS5? I think microsoft must launch that console at $450 to compete with PS5.

Xbox consoles at 1.5GB/s speed?

PS5 at 2.5GB/s speed?

We don't even have the consoles on the market, there are no benchmarks, we don't even know how fast the SSD is.

But just because it has an SSD, doesn't mean there won't be a load time... There are games that use procedural generation which require very little in regards to transfers from storage to system memory, but require a ton of processing time to generate assets. (No Mans Land is an example.)

Consoles like the Switch are all solid state, still have load times.

Again, 2 seconds is a bold claim, you should stop asserting something as fact when you don't have all your ducks in a row, this is why there are people out in the world who believe sunscreen causes cancer, vaccines cause autism, there is no climate change, the world is flat... And more, because they assert something as fact without having all the details/evidence.

Trumpstyle said:

Looks like you know a lot about this stuff, Sony/Microsoft are supposed to use optimized NVMe to reduce loading much faster than what is possible on PC.

What is so optimized about it? Please. Fill us in.

DonFerrari said:

Considering RT on the consoles will be a designated part of the HW, not using RT will probably just make that part unused instead of working in something else.

About the gfx x resolution, they will have to find the balance to have the best IQ overall.

There is the potential to use the Ray Tracing cores for non-Ray Tracing tasks, it depends on how flexible AMD makes those cores.

Potentially though if the Ray Tracing cores are going unused, AMD could then repurpose that TDP and drive up clockrates to the rest of the chip... Either way, that is just hypothesizing, we will need to wait and see of course.

Isn't the Switch's reading speed capped at like 100MB/S, while a regular NVMe SSD can read at 3500MB/s?



goopy20 said:

Those numbers are awfully inflated when people like me could just sign up for $1 and play Forza, Gears, Sea of Thieves and State of decay on pc and then simply cancel the subscription. If I had to pay a yearly or even permanent subscription for Gamepass I would never have played any of those games, though. 

Maybe Fable will be good but I just don't think that franchise has such an appeal anymore. If they want to copy Horizon zero dawn then they should have just made a new ip.

More important than the inflated numbers of trials for $1, does Gamepass have "millions" of active subscribers like Phil suggested? I would assume it does given they launch games on it.

I bet Tomb Raider lost much of its appeal especially by the time Tomb Raider Underworld released. However, Tomb Raider 2013 became the best selling game in the series I believe. Partly because they made a great product inspired by modern games.

Monster Hunter World has apparently become Capcom's best selling game thanks to what can be considered a reboot.

Hence, Fable isn't necessarily limited by how relevant the IP was or is at the moment.



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exclusive_console said:
On paper PS5 specs compared to X is much lower than expected. I guess Sony are confident 4K 60fps with those specs ? with the X it seems Microsoft want to get PC gamers onboard and core Xbox gamers from switching to Sony. Though if PS5 can undercut X price by 100$ I think they do not have to worry.

Why would a PC gamer buy a Series X?



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goopy20 said:

Pemalite said:

Isn't the Switch's reading speed capped at like 100MB/S, while a regular NVMe SSD can read at 3500MB/s?

It might be so, and that's consisent with what the Switch's hardware can achieve. On the other hand, it's very hard not to be bottlenecked by the CPU with a NVMe, even running at 4 GHz+ desktop speeds. So the difference isn't going to be anywhere close to 35x for real life applications, and consider the Switch already takes like half a minute to load some games.



 

 

 

 

 

ArchangelMadzz said:
exclusive_console said:
On paper PS5 specs compared to X is much lower than expected. I guess Sony are confident 4K 60fps with those specs ? with the X it seems Microsoft want to get PC gamers onboard and core Xbox gamers from switching to Sony. Though if PS5 can undercut X price by 100$ I think they do not have to worry.

Why would a PC gamer buy a Series X?

they wouldnt. if thats ms's strategy than its a horrible one.



Mr Puggsly said:
goopy20 said:

Those numbers are awfully inflated when people like me could just sign up for $1 and play Forza, Gears, Sea of Thieves and State of decay on pc and then simply cancel the subscription. If I had to pay a yearly or even permanent subscription for Gamepass I would never have played any of those games, though. 

Maybe Fable will be good but I just don't think that franchise has such an appeal anymore. If they want to copy Horizon zero dawn then they should have just made a new ip.

More important than the inflated numbers of trials for $1, does Gamepass have "millions" of active subscribers like Phil suggested? I would assume it does given they launch games on it.

I bet Tomb Raider lost much of its appeal especially by the time Tomb Raider Underworld released. However, Tomb Raider 2013 became the best selling game in the series I believe. Partly because they made a great product inspired by modern games.

Monster Hunter World has apparently become Capcom's best selling game thanks to what can be considered a reboot.

Hence, Fable isn't necessarily limited by how relevant the IP was or is at the moment.

In response to a query about Shadow Of The Tomb Raider’s sales, Square Enix responded by acknowledging that it “got off to a weak start”. As for why it initially underperformed, Square Enix reckons it wasn’t “novel enough”:

“We think the main reason is that we were unable to provide an experience that was novel enough that players would choose to buy them [Shadow Of The Tomb Raider and Just Cause 4] before any of the other numerous major titles on the competitive landscape.”

Not saying reboots are a bad thing and GOW was pretty amazing, but generally speaking, there comes a time when franchise fatigue becomes a thing. Sony realizes this and that's why they stopped with the Uncharted series for example and moved on, even though it was one of their best selling franchises. 



goopy20 said:

Isn't the Switch's reading speed capped at like 100MB/S, while a regular NVMe SSD can read at 3500MB/s?

Yup. 60-90MB/s from the MicroSD. Which is still faster than the Xbox One/Playstation 4's launch 5400rpm internal spinning rust drives.
It's still all solid state though. Same with the WiiU which used trashy emmc NAND for it's storage.

However, it's not all about storage speed.
Nintendo introduced a "boost mode" which basically increased the consoles CPU clock speed to reduce load times by 30%. - The solid state drive in the Switch wasn't working any differently either.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-nintendo-switch-boost-mode-analysis




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goopy20 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

More important than the inflated numbers of trials for $1, does Gamepass have "millions" of active subscribers like Phil suggested? I would assume it does given they launch games on it.

I bet Tomb Raider lost much of its appeal especially by the time Tomb Raider Underworld released. However, Tomb Raider 2013 became the best selling game in the series I believe. Partly because they made a great product inspired by modern games.

Monster Hunter World has apparently become Capcom's best selling game thanks to what can be considered a reboot.

Hence, Fable isn't necessarily limited by how relevant the IP was or is at the moment.

In response to a query about Shadow Of The Tomb Raider’s sales, Square Enix responded by acknowledging that it “got off to a weak start”. As for why it initially underperformed, Square Enix reckons it wasn’t “novel enough”:

“We think the main reason is that we were unable to provide an experience that was novel enough that players would choose to buy them [Shadow Of The Tomb Raider and Just Cause 4] before any of the other numerous major titles on the competitive landscape.”

Not saying reboots are a bad thing and GOW was pretty amazing, but generally speaking, there comes a time when franchise fatigue becomes a thing. Sony realizes this and that's why they stopped with the Uncharted series for example and moved on, even though it was one of their best selling franchises. 

What you posted about Shadow of the Tomb Raider is irrelevant. That was not the reboot, Tomb Raider 2013 was the reboot. SE failed to make the third entry interesting. But the story and characters werent interesting in that trilogy, just fun games.

If Sony felt they could keep making interesting games without Nathan Drake, Uncharted probably would continue.

If Sony was concerned about franchise fatigue then why is there an 7th GoW game? The latest GoW didnt need to be Kratos in norse mythology, it could have been a new IP. It doesent even play like previous games.

Why make a Spiderman game? Thats an old IP. Maybe because old IPs can become something that feels fresh or utilize modern specs for a more ambitious project?

Hence, Fable could return in a big way if they make something really ambitious in that genre.



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for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)