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Forums - Nintendo - What do you want in a Switch 2?

Cobretti2 said:

When the Playstation 5 comes out at 9,2 Tflops, theres probably gonna be like a 25 times power differnce, between it and the base Switch model.

25 : 1  (likely higher, in actual performance differnce delta)

Thats a ratio that means, the Switch likely wont get any multplat game, thats made to run on a PS5 (or XBSX).

Waiting to move on, isnt going fix anything.
Ideally Nintendo doesnt want Sony or Microsoft consoles to be more than 10 times its power, if it wants to keep multiplats imo.

Which means the ideal time to launch a Switch 2, is 2021-2022.

What nvidia chips in 2021-2022 will bring the Switch into line that will allow for PS5/XBSX ports?

I just can't see it happening, unless they drop the switch concept and go hardcore console.

Can you see the switch happening? Because it already did and gets ps4 ports no problem. Why wouldn't the switch 2 do the same?



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Nu-13 said:
Cobretti2 said:

What nvidia chips in 2021-2022 will bring the Switch into line that will allow for PS5/XBSX ports?

I just can't see it happening, unless they drop the switch concept and go hardcore console.

Can you see the switch happening? Because it already did and gets ps4 ports no problem. Why wouldn't the switch 2 do the same?

Depends on how far Nin, PS, and MS, wants to push the tech and pricing. Switch is all the right things at the right time, for the most part. This is partially due to PS4 and XB1 being tamer consoles at their launch. If PS5 and XBSX are more along the lines of PS3 and 360, or somewhere in between, Switch 2 will either have to launch later than many may want to wait, or Nin has to push forward with updated recent hardware which is going to cost them and the consumer. Otherwise it's going to be much much tougher to convince third parties to support a Switch 2, like they did for Switch.



PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.

Lagless online, party chat, AAA games. EVERY other feature can go for these things. U can scrap all free games too if it helps keep down the sub cost. I want as many AAA games as the competition. I don't mind understandable sacrifices or a bunch of 2nd party deals. Just make it so I don't need a 2nd console and can still play the next Zelda and metroid. Also if there's a screen less version for cheaper that I can carry around like a plugnplay u got a buyer right here.



Pemalite said:
JRPGfan said:

Switch docked = 393 Gflops
Base PS4 = 1,840 Gflops.

"more like 2-2,25"

You need to stop bullsh*tting and spreading false info.

1840 / 393 = 4,7x performance differnce.

Now you can aruge that Nvidia flops are like 20% better than AMD ones in terms of graphics performance, compaired to the calculation numbers it can do...

Flops is irrelevant.
Switch = Maxwell.
Playstation 4 = Graphics Core Next.

A GTX 960 based on Maxwell with 2.36 Teraflops of single precision floating point capability...
Is able to beat a Radeon 7970 with 3.78 Teraflops of single precision floating point capability.

That is a 60% flop advantage to the 7970.

https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1722?vs=1744

Bandwidth is irrellevent as well.

The GTX 960 has 112GB/s verses the 7970's 264GB/s or 135% more bandwidth.

In your ideal fantasy world a GPU with 60% more flops and 135% more bandwidth should win, right? I mean... Right?

Well, the 7970 does win the fight: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-960-vs-AMD-HD-7970/3165vs2163



Pemalite said:
JRPGfan said:

Bandwidth matters, as you start running higher resolutions.
So while that 960 might beat a 7970 at like 720p, I bet you once you start running 1440p, it has the advantage right?
Probably because of that 135% more memory bandwidth.

Would you look at that, a factory OCed 960, is slower than a stock 7970 at 1440 on avg.
Stock to stock, its around 17%.

*edit: actually this review, shows the 960 is slower than the 7970 on all resolutions they tested.

That 135% more bandwidth and 60% more flops only increased performance by 9% at 1440P.
That is pretty insignificant.

You are still proving my point. That Architecture is more important than flops or bandwidth.

Overclock that 960 heavily and it will match/exceed the 7970 even at 1440P.

Not to mention the 960 was always more of a 1080P card anyway.

As for benchmarks themselves, Anandtech is a more legitimate source.
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1722?vs=1744
.

I get your point, but at some point, having too low a bandwidth will choke the whole chip.

Also, your whole point of the bandwidth being unimportant by pointing to a chip with an oversized connection compared to one with a more sensible size got disproven a bit with the 1660 Super, which pretty much only has better bandwidth over the normal 1660 and et soundly beats the older version by about 15% due to it.



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Dulfite said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

The main thing I fear with the Switch 2 is that Nintendo tries to reinvent the wheel like they do almost every generation.  That instinct is good when their consoles are selling poorly, but since Switch is successful they don't need to change the core philosophy behind it.  Basically just make it a more powerful Switch.  Third party companies already see that the basic concept is successful, so the devs supporting Switch at the end of it's life can be ready to support the Switch 2 from the very beginning.  Specifically:


1. Release date 2023 or 2024
2. Up the power level significantly.  PS4 Pro level sound about right.
3. Make it backwards compatible. 
4. Improve the joy-cons, so there is no more drift.
5. Bigger hard drive.
6. Launch it with Breath of the Wild 3.
7. Price point $300 or less.

I about died at Botw 3 haha that's good. I think the only time Zelda ever came close to three games was the Oracle's, with one never being released (though those wouldn't have been 3 linear experiences). Unless we are counting Lttp, four swords, and between world's?

I'd be stunned if they made a botw 3.

Slownenberg said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

The main thing I fear with the Switch 2 is that Nintendo tries to reinvent the wheel like they do almost every generation.  That instinct is good when their consoles are selling poorly, but since Switch is successful they don't need to change the core philosophy behind it.  Basically just make it a more powerful Switch.  Third party companies already see that the basic concept is successful, so the devs supporting Switch at the end of it's life can be ready to support the Switch 2 from the very beginning.  Specifically:


1. Release date 2023 or 2024
2. Up the power level significantly.  PS4 Pro level sound about right.
3. Make it backwards compatible. 
4. Improve the joy-cons, so there is no more drift.
5. Bigger hard drive.
6. Launch it with Breath of the Wild 3.
7. Price point $300 or less.

Yeah for sure next gen is the time for Nintendo to iterate, not reinvent.

Agree with all the above, but no way there will be BotW 3 haha. After two BotW's the following Zelda game will no doubt be something different.

I'm sure they will make sure to have an incredible launch game after how much BotW helped the Switch's launch. I think Mario Kart 9 is a given for the launch, and either a Zelda or 3D Mario to go with it.

Zelda naming is funny.  The only one named Zelda 2 is actually really different from Zelda 1.  Link to the Past is actually the first "true sequel" because gameplay is a lot like Zelda 1.  Also Majora's Mask, Windwaker, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword are all basically sequels to Ocarina of Time.  

So basically I mean I want Switch 2 to launch with an open world Zelda that is like BotW.  It can be called something different.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
Pemalite said:

That 135% more bandwidth and 60% more flops only increased performance by 9% at 1440P.
That is pretty insignificant.

You are still proving my point. That Architecture is more important than flops or bandwidth.

Overclock that 960 heavily and it will match/exceed the 7970 even at 1440P.

Not to mention the 960 was always more of a 1080P card anyway.

As for benchmarks themselves, Anandtech is a more legitimate source.
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1722?vs=1744
.

I get your point, but at some point, having too low a bandwidth will choke the whole chip.

Also, your whole point of the bandwidth being unimportant by pointing to a chip with an oversized connection compared to one with a more sensible size got disproven a bit with the 1660 Super, which pretty much only has better bandwidth over the normal 1660 and et soundly beats the older version by about 15% due to it.

You are missing the point. The 7970 is offering diminishing returns despite a substantial increase in computational throughput and memory bandwidth.

And in some benchmarks the 960 is beating it.
The 7970 is not a good GPU today for 1440P gaming anyway, but it's still pretty good at 1080P.

Here the 960 is besting the 7970 in many benchmarks.
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_960_gaming_oc_review,17.html
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_960_gaming_oc_review,16.html
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1722?vs=1744

Also need to keep in mind that the 4GB variant of the 960 is faster than the 2GB and the 7970 has a GHZ edition variant, some review sites don't list the differences/variant.

Either way... It's a testament of how superior Maxwell is to first generation Graphics Core Next on all fronts, it can beat Graphics Core Next with less Flops and less Bandwidth.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

I get your point, but at some point, having too low a bandwidth will choke the whole chip.

Also, your whole point of the bandwidth being unimportant by pointing to a chip with an oversized connection compared to one with a more sensible size got disproven a bit with the 1660 Super, which pretty much only has better bandwidth over the normal 1660 and et soundly beats the older version by about 15% due to it.

Actually... Allow me to elaborate.

Bandwidth is unimportant, as in... The raw black and white numbers you see listed everywhere. (A little like Teraflops.)
The real-world bandwidth is important... Just like Teraflops.

The reason why Maxwell can pull ahead of Graphics Core Next is because it employs a myriad of bandwidth saving technologies like delta colour compression which gave it a potential 50% more bandwidth even at identical memory bandwidths, Pascal improved that by another 20-25% on top of it.

Combine that with tiled based rasterization and improved culling... And Maxwell was able to achieve allot more than Graphics Core Next at the same GB/s advertised bandwidth numbers... It's also why the Switch with it's pitiful 25.6GB/s of bandwidth is doing so well.

Obviously the more you increase a GPU's functional units, the more bandwidth you need, hence the GTX 1660 series.









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Mbolibombo said:
First off - I want a Switch 2. Not something else. Just improve on what is already there and maybe add something Nintendo-weird.
This is what Nintendo needs to do to succeed.

* More powerful device @ a reasonable pricepoint.
* Ergonomics for the Switch and a Pro Controller with,all the good stuf.
* Proper gamelog
* Folders
* Revamped E-shop
* Achievement system
* Better friend system
* Better online infrastructure
* Improved relationship with AAA-publishers

I think much of this could be done with the current Switch, but I think they might save these (if they do them at all) for next system

Dont set yourself up for dissapointment and expect PS4 PRO power in a handheld device in the near future at a good price..

Yep, pretty much this. It's sad Nintendo is still behind in terms of social features on the switch, Wii U had a better friend system, gamelog, and eShop.



 

shikamaru317 said:
Nu-13 said:

Tegra x1 was not 2 years old when switch came out and was the best they could get on a $299 system. Orin is not a mobile gpu and is too expensive and powerful. If nintendo gets a gpu that's 40-45% as powerful as an orin for Switch 2, it will already match or at least be close to an xbox one x gpu. But it really baffles me that you accept the reality of other consoles having a 5-7x jump but think the switch 2 will only be like 3x more powerful than the switch.

It was nearly 2 years old. The first Tegra X1 device released in May 2015, Switch released in March 2017, so 22 months, or 1 year and 10 months. 

If Switch 2 is a 2022 device as I suspect, Nvidia won't have released a successor to Tegra Xavier yet, which means that Switch 2 will likely use a Tegra Xavier based chipset. So unless Nintendo has them make a custom Xavier chip with more power than the most powerful Xavier chip currently (1.4 tflop) through a die shrink, I doubt that Switch 2 will offer more than a 3x improvement over Switch 1.  

Pretty sure Ampere will release in 2020.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

-Around base XB1/PS4 performance level.
-1080p screen
-Improved version of Joycon
-No more experimental bs like Labo