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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What do you want in a Switch 2?

The_Liquid_Laser said:
Dulfite said:

Oh now I see. Can it have a unique art style as well or does it have to have Botw 1&2 art style?

Either would be fine.  I think I liked Twilight Princess' art style the best, but BotW's art style was good too.

I prefer new art styles. To me Zelda is Nintendo's creativity expressing itself and I like that to change every new mainline game. Tp was awesome but I like each game appearing unique.



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Slownenberg said:
JRPGfan said:

Nintendo never uses bleeding edge technology.
So now... I think 4 years from now, what you ll see in a Switch 2, is the best of whats possible "now".

Even if nintendo did go for the newest new thing, I doubt what you believe "ps4pro" level, is possible even then.
So No technology isnt going to magically start improveing at rates we havent seen before, just to make that possible.

Basically PS4pro level is wishfull thinking, that wont happend.
Unless Switch 2, isnt a handheld anymore.

If nintendo goes back to just a console sitting under the tv, it could be a 100+ watt useing monster, that could be 9-12 Tflops too.
If Nintendo wants to keep the Switch concept, and have it use like 8-10watts in handheld mode, and ~20-25 docked, then thats just not possible no.

When the Playstation 5 comes out at 9,2 Tflops, theres probably gonna be like a 25 times power differnce, between it and the base Switch model.

25 : 1  (likely higher, in actual performance differnce delta)

Thats a ratio that means, the Switch likely wont get any multplat game, thats made to run on a PS5 (or XBSX).

Waiting to move on, isnt going fix anything.
Ideally Nintendo doesnt want Sony or Microsoft consoles to be more than 10 times its power, if it wants to keep multiplats imo.

Which means the ideal time to launch a Switch 2, is 2021-2022.

Honestly, thats bad reasoning. And I'm sure you know this. You are intentionally trying to hamstring what is possible in order to argue your point.

2017 Switch had a 2015 chip. And this was coming off Wii U's massive failure in which they didn't make much money the past few years and they had to release a new system quite early. And yet you think the Switch 2 will use 4 year old technology compared to the Switch's 2 year old tech?? Obviously you are being disingenuous here.

Yeah, a 2023 Switch 2 isn't gonna release with a chip that comes out in late 2022, sure, but its also not gonna have a chip from 2019! It is perfectly reasonable to expect it to contain a chip that releases about two years from today, which will have significant advances over what is available now. Beyond teraflops, the next Switch will have other advances in tech that have taken place in the 10 years (at that point) since PS4 released which will give it a leg up. So it is perfectly reasonable to expect the portable mode to at least be on par graphically with a base PS4, and docked mode with let's say using twice as many watts similar to PS4 Pro. It might not have the exact same teraflops, but it will probably use a chip that gets the same performance with a lower raw number, and have some other areas with better specs (for instance, certainly it'll have more RAM available for games than a PS4 Pro does). Overall it is reasonable to expect roughly PS4 Pro type performance when docked.

< cut >

Im expecting a Switch 2, end of 2021, or 2022.
The tech inside it will be stuff from 2019.

Thats not hamstringing it...... your entire argument is you think it ll launch lateron, and use newer tech.
I dont think that will happend.

You basically wrote a huge wall of text for no reason.

No its not reasonable to expect a handheld thats 4.2 Tflops of FP32 compute..... not in 2021 or 2023.



Nu-13 said:
JRPGfan said:

"The new Tegra Xavier T194 is capable of pushing out 1.4 TFLOPS at FP32"

That uses ~30watts of power to do so, which is fine, when docked.
Yes thats more or less what I've been saying.

When docked, a Switch 2 will likely be around where the base PS4 is at now.

How did I miss this post yesterday?

You start by ignoring that xavier is probably already around 40-50% more powerful than the ps4's gpu. And while it isn't something made for a switch form factor, IF a switch like device were to release in 2019 using a downclocked xavier, it would be a little above ps4 when docked and switch in portable mode. And that's what could be done now. Nvidea's next set of mobile gpus should come out in 2021, benefiting from years of technology advancements and a die shrink to 7-8nm (maybe even 6).

shikamaru317 said:

It was nearly 2 years old. The first Tegra X1 device released in May 2015, Switch released in March 2017, so 22 months, or 1 year and 10 months. 

If Switch 2 is a 2022 device as I suspect, Nvidia won't have released a successor to Tegra Xavier yet, which means that Switch 2 will likely use a Tegra Xavier based chipset. So unless Nintendo has them make a custom Xavier chip with more power than the most powerful Xavier chip currently (1.4 tflop) through a die shrink, I doubt that Switch 2 will offer more than a 3x improvement over Switch 1.  

1.5 years then, as the switch was schedule to release in late 2016 with 2015 tech. This is no different than ps4 and x1 releasing in 2013 with 2012 tech and ps5/xsx coming in 2020 with 2019 tech. Each using what's apropriate for their for factor.

*insert facepalm gif here*


Your saying that the Xavier T194 is 1,4 Tflops of FP32 compute.... those are your own words, from a earlier post.

Then you go on to say:

"your ignoreing that xavier is already 40-50% more powerfull than the PS4's Gpu" -Nu-13


Do you know how stupid that sounds? or not realise how much FP32 compute performance the base PS4 model has?
Its sitting at 1840 Gflops of FP32 compute (aka 1,84 Tflops).

Ei. Xavier is still weaker than the base PS4 model's GPU (~30watts).



I want that it includes access to every game from every nintendo console from the game game & watch to the switch for free, free online game included, a nintendo social web (like twitter or facebook), virtual reality, holograpich technologies, that it can be portable also, mmm... I do not know what more, for start the latter.



JRPGfan said:
Slownenberg said:

Honestly, thats bad reasoning. And I'm sure you know this. You are intentionally trying to hamstring what is possible in order to argue your point.

2017 Switch had a 2015 chip. And this was coming off Wii U's massive failure in which they didn't make much money the past few years and they had to release a new system quite early. And yet you think the Switch 2 will use 4 year old technology compared to the Switch's 2 year old tech?? Obviously you are being disingenuous here.

Yeah, a 2023 Switch 2 isn't gonna release with a chip that comes out in late 2022, sure, but its also not gonna have a chip from 2019! It is perfectly reasonable to expect it to contain a chip that releases about two years from today, which will have significant advances over what is available now. Beyond teraflops, the next Switch will have other advances in tech that have taken place in the 10 years (at that point) since PS4 released which will give it a leg up. So it is perfectly reasonable to expect the portable mode to at least be on par graphically with a base PS4, and docked mode with let's say using twice as many watts similar to PS4 Pro. It might not have the exact same teraflops, but it will probably use a chip that gets the same performance with a lower raw number, and have some other areas with better specs (for instance, certainly it'll have more RAM available for games than a PS4 Pro does). Overall it is reasonable to expect roughly PS4 Pro type performance when docked.

< cut >

Im expecting a Switch 2, end of 2021, or 2022.
The tech inside it will be stuff from 2019.

Thats not hamstringing it...... your entire argument is you think it ll launch lateron, and use newer tech.
I dont think that will happend.

You basically wrote a huge wall of text for no reason.

No its not reasonable to expect a handheld thats 4.2 Tflops of FP32 compute..... not in 2021 or 2023.

Forget 2021. You have no basis to claim that switch 2 will use stuff from 3 years prior when the switch was using stuff less than 2 years old. Again, consoles don't have flops, that's one of many aspects of a gpu.

JRPGfan said:
Nu-13 said:

How did I miss this post yesterday?

You start by ignoring that xavier is probably already around 40-50% more powerful than the ps4's gpu. And while it isn't something made for a switch form factor, IF a switch like device were to release in 2019 using a downclocked xavier, it would be a little above ps4 when docked and switch in portable mode. And that's what could be done now. Nvidea's next set of mobile gpus should come out in 2021, benefiting from years of technology advancements and a die shrink to 7-8nm (maybe even 6).

1.5 years then, as the switch was schedule to release in late 2016 with 2015 tech. This is no different than ps4 and x1 releasing in 2013 with 2012 tech and ps5/xsx coming in 2020 with 2019 tech. Each using what's apropriate for their for factor.

*insert facepalm gif here*


Your saying that the Xavier T194 is 1,4 Tflops of FP32 compute.... those are your own words, from a earlier post.

Then you go on to say:

"your ignoreing that xavier is already 40-50% more powerfull than the PS4's Gpu" -Nu-13


Do you know how stupid that sounds? or not realise how much FP32 compute performance the base PS4 model has?
Its sitting at 1840 Gflops of FP32 compute (aka 1,84 Tflops).

Ei. Xavier is still weaker than the base PS4 model's GPU (~30watts).

You are doing this intentionally after being well aware of the difference between flops and PERFORMANCE. I will not entertain you further in this but look forward to what you will say in 2022.



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JRPGfan said:

His point was it was more than 20 % in this case.
However flop effeciency while Archetecture dependent, is also card dependent.
Which he completely ignored.

He probably found one of the most extreme cases, when he compaired the 960 to the 7970.

Anyways its not always this big a differnce.

Ultimately it comes down to core design, of the graphics unit.
AMD leans way to heavy on the non purely- gameing related stuff, like gpu-compute.
Which does little for them (imo), I wish they would make slimmer design, thats more gameing focused like nvidia uses.


And yes, the 7970 didnt use colour compression, ect.
AMD was late to the party with that stuff.
(again this is probably one of the more extreme cases, of flop to flop)

All of this is slightly off topic though guys......

It's comparing AMD's Graphics Core Next 1.0 to nVidia's Maxwell.
Aka. Xbox One vs Switch.

It's why the Switch does as well as it does with it's ports despite significantly inferior hardware specifications on paper.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

JRPGfan said:
Nu-13 said:

How did I miss this post yesterday?

You start by ignoring that xavier is probably already around 40-50% more powerful than the ps4's gpu. And while it isn't something made for a switch form factor, IF a switch like device were to release in 2019 using a downclocked xavier, it would be a little above ps4 when docked and switch in portable mode. And that's what could be done now. Nvidea's next set of mobile gpus should come out in 2021, benefiting from years of technology advancements and a die shrink to 7-8nm (maybe even 6).

1.5 years then, as the switch was schedule to release in late 2016 with 2015 tech. This is no different than ps4 and x1 releasing in 2013 with 2012 tech and ps5/xsx coming in 2020 with 2019 tech. Each using what's apropriate for their for factor.

*insert facepalm gif here*


Your saying that the Xavier T194 is 1,4 Tflops of FP32 compute.... those are your own words, from a earlier post.

Then you go on to say:

"your ignoreing that xavier is already 40-50% more powerfull than the PS4's Gpu" -Nu-13


Do you know how stupid that sounds? or not realise how much FP32 compute performance the base PS4 model has?
Its sitting at 1840 Gflops of FP32 compute (aka 1,84 Tflops).

Ei. Xavier is still weaker than the base PS4 model's GPU (~30watts).

That xavier model is the 30watt one. The 10watt one is closer to 0.8 TFLOPs

Yes I agree with him that TFLOPS can't be compared 1 to 1 with nvidia v amd, however that is still a big bloody difference.

Can developers port their games? sure. we seen some game ports form PS4 now, but they are blurry.

What a lot of people do not understand is developers are not going to put in a lot of effort into porting when porting between PS5/XBSX/PC is easy.

Hence why it is pointless releasing a switch 2 in 2021 as it won't help get ports anyway.  The mobile technology needs to evolve further, or Nintendo if they want chances at ports need to take another direction.

If anything Nintendo need to be forward thinking with Nvidia and say ok we want to release a console in 202X, what chips are due then let us create something around those. Not what come out in 2021 for 2023 release.  If Sony and Microsoft can work with latest hardware coming, I don't see how Nintendo cannot plan ahead either.



 

 

shikamaru317 said:
Slownenberg said:

I don't know why you are so sure Switch 2 would come out in 2022. 2023 seems far more likely, and would mean there is time to get a later chip. I pretty much think there is no way they will release a new system before 2023. Think about it, Switch is still gaining momentum. It's gonna have about a 20 million sales year this year (better than PS4's best year), and in all likelihood will sell even more next year. In 2021 it should still be selling very strongly (likely a lot better than PS4 did this year, a year before its next system), they're not gonna cut that off with a 2022 release.

I'm assuming they'll do another Spring time release because having two big selling periods in year 1 for the Switch worked really well. So Spring 2023 is the most likely date. Also Nintendo themselves said they want the Switch's lifespan to be longer, which guarantees it'll be no shorter than 6 years. I don't think they'd wait longer than 2023 though because by 2022 they won't be getting any multiplat games anymore since development will have totally switched over to the new gen rather than ps4/one, so to not go too long without any big multiplat games they'll need to release in 2023.

I could see them doing a holiday 2023 release if they need more time to get great launch games ready, which is certainly possible if they want a Zelda or 3D Mario to launch with the system and even if BotW 2 comes out holiday 2020 that'll be a quick turnaround for Zelda, and if there is a second 3D Mario in let's say 2021, that would also be a very quick turnaround to get ready for Spring of 2023. Sometime between March and November 2023 we'll see Switch 2. A Mario Kart 9 + zelda or 3d mario or pokemon launch seems like the best thing to launch with.

So an expected 2023 Switch 2 release should come with a chip from probably 2021, not 2019.

Several reasons:

  1. There are many reports that Nintendo already made a deal with Sharp to use their high quality IGZO screens on an upcoming system. These reports go back as far as early 2019. 
  2. According to reports, Nintendo recently made a deal with Macronix to use their 64 GB 3D Nand cartridges, and supposedly Nintendo is first in line for these. These could be for Switch, but it seems unlikely given how few games have exceeded the current max of 32 GB on Switch. The cost of these carts will likely be quite high since it is new technology, it makes more sense that Nintendo is planning to use these in a couple of years on a next gen system, as the smallest cartridge size for Switch 2, with larger options available as necessary.
  3. There have been job listings at Nintendo mentioning things like experience with engines that aren't compatible with Switch 1, prototyping new wi-fi and bluetooth technology, 3D Spatial audio, multi-threading, asynchronous compute, OS emulation with VirtIO drivers, and writing new PCEe drivers. These are all things that suggest a new console in development, and some of these job listings were quite old. It would seem a tad strange for Nintendo to be hiring for 2023 console development as far back as 2018.

So, I do think that we may be seeing a Switch 2 in 2022. However, it's also possible that the above is pointing to the release of a mid-gen upgrade Switch Pro in 2020, which will have an IGZO display, make use of 64 GB 3D NAND carts, and have some of those features from the job listings. However, that seems a bit unlikely to me, for a Switch Pro to need 64 GB carts, it would need to be using Tegra Xavier, I don't think that developers would be able to push graphics enough on Tegra X2 to need larger cartridges just for Switch Pro, and a Tegra Xavier using Switch Pro in 2020 would be very expensive, like $400 or more, and I'm not sure how much demand there is for something in that price range among Nintendo fans. Nintendo isn't well known for using state of the art tech on systems, they haven't actually done that in decades, Wii was basically an overclocked Gamecube, Wii U was a small upgrade over 360/PS3, and Switch used nearly 2 year old tech. 

This isn't strange at all. Nintendo starts working on laying the groundwork for the next system soon after they release a system. It's not like companies wait until the systems are late stage to start planning and hiring for the next system. Nintendo is certainly gonna want to have their next console planned out with specs in place and dev consoles ready to give to developers by 2021 or 2022, which would ready a launch for 2023. Nothing about this suggests that Nintendo will release a Switch 2 early. Nobody is suggesting that Nintendo isn't actively working on a new system right now, I am sure they have been working on it for quite a while. But they have no reason to release it early unless Switch sales suddenly start tanking.

Last edited by Slownenberg - on 01 January 2020

JRPGfan said:
Slownenberg said:

Honestly, thats bad reasoning. And I'm sure you know this. You are intentionally trying to hamstring what is possible in order to argue your point.

2017 Switch had a 2015 chip. And this was coming off Wii U's massive failure in which they didn't make much money the past few years and they had to release a new system quite early. And yet you think the Switch 2 will use 4 year old technology compared to the Switch's 2 year old tech?? Obviously you are being disingenuous here.

Yeah, a 2023 Switch 2 isn't gonna release with a chip that comes out in late 2022, sure, but its also not gonna have a chip from 2019! It is perfectly reasonable to expect it to contain a chip that releases about two years from today, which will have significant advances over what is available now. Beyond teraflops, the next Switch will have other advances in tech that have taken place in the 10 years (at that point) since PS4 released which will give it a leg up. So it is perfectly reasonable to expect the portable mode to at least be on par graphically with a base PS4, and docked mode with let's say using twice as many watts similar to PS4 Pro. It might not have the exact same teraflops, but it will probably use a chip that gets the same performance with a lower raw number, and have some other areas with better specs (for instance, certainly it'll have more RAM available for games than a PS4 Pro does). Overall it is reasonable to expect roughly PS4 Pro type performance when docked.

< cut >

Im expecting a Switch 2, end of 2021, or 2022.
The tech inside it will be stuff from 2019.

Thats not hamstringing it...... your entire argument is you think it ll launch lateron, and use newer tech.
I dont think that will happend.

You basically wrote a huge wall of text for no reason.

No its not reasonable to expect a handheld thats 4.2 Tflops of FP32 compute..... not in 2021 or 2023.

Ok welp, good luck with that 2021 prediction haha. Never gonna happen but you can dream i guess. Maybe you haven't noticed but the Switch ain't another Wii U, Switch ain't gonna be killed off early like Wii U was. Like i said, bad reasoning on your part.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
Cucumberry said:
Internal storage. I have 70 cartridges, 5 64gb sd cards and a 128gb sd card. Kind of nerfs the portability aspect.

That's something I expect in an update to the Switch next year or in 2021. An expansion to 64 or 128GB internal memory instead of a pricecut. For a Switch 2 in 2024 I would rather expect 256-512GB of internal memory, though.

This gen I would be happy with a firmware(?) update adding external hard drive support in docked mode. No idea if it's even possible though.