They likely will. It won't be Xavier. Xavier is not designed for gaming at all. Doesn't support a lot of modern feature sets. Nvidia likely will make a chip based on Ampere like X1 was based on Maxwell and X2 on Pascal.

His point was it was more than 20 % in this case.
However flop effeciency while Archetecture dependent, is also card dependent.
Which he completely ignored.

He probably found one of the most extreme cases, when he compaired the 960 to the 7970.

Anyways its not always this big a differnce.

Ultimately it comes down to core design, of the graphics unit.
AMD leans way to heavy on the non purely- gameing related stuff, like gpu-compute.
Which does little for them (imo), I wish they would make slimmer design, thats more gameing focused like nvidia uses.


And yes, the 7970 didnt use colour compression, ect.
AMD was late to the party with that stuff.
(again this is probably one of the more extreme cases, of flop to flop)

All of this is slightly off topic though guys......

Honestly, thats bad reasoning. And I'm sure you know this. You are intentionally trying to hamstring what is possible in order to argue your point.

2017 Switch had a 2015 chip. And this was coming off Wii U's massive failure in which they didn't make much money the past few years and they had to release a new system quite early. And yet you think the Switch 2 will use 4 year old technology compared to the Switch's 2 year old tech?? Obviously you are being disingenuous here.

Yeah, a 2023 Switch 2 isn't gonna release with a chip that comes out in late 2022, sure, but its also not gonna have a chip from 2019! It is perfectly reasonable to expect it to contain a chip that releases about two years from today, which will have significant advances over what is available now. Beyond teraflops, the next Switch will have other advances in tech that have taken place in the 10 years (at that point) since PS4 released which will give it a leg up. So it is perfectly reasonable to expect the portable mode to at least be on par graphically with a base PS4, and docked mode with let's say using twice as many watts similar to PS4 Pro. It might not have the exact same teraflops, but it will probably use a chip that gets the same performance with a lower raw number, and have some other areas with better specs (for instance, certainly it'll have more RAM available for games than a PS4 Pro does). Overall it is reasonable to expect roughly PS4 Pro type performance when docked.

Also the idea that Nintendo needs to kill the massively successful Switch early to release a Switch 2 just because other systems are coming out is absurd. Switch already doesn't really get many brand new big multiplat releases. They are very few and far between. So the situation won't change a whole lot when the new systems come out. People aren't buying the Switch for the handful of multiplat games that run better on home consoles. Sure it is nice when one does come the Switch's way every once in a while, and we'd all like that to happen more often, and it could happen more often it is really just a decision by most third parties that don't bother with porting it and dealing with the effort to get the games running well on Nintendo's portable. Also releasing an early Switch 2 means it wouldn't be strong enough to get any multiplats from the new systems either, so it'd be completely pointless for that reason.

Allowing the Switch to have a full and very successful lifespan, and then launching a Switch 2 in 2023 that can run at around PS4 Pro performance levels, at least when docked, and therefore get some PS4/XboxSeries multiplat games like the Switch gets from this gen, though hopefully more than the Switch has been getting, is the only thing that makes sense.

Yeah, a main reason to push the power is so that, despite being a portable, Nintendo can still get some big multiplat games. As a Nintendo gamer, I always want more multiplat games. More games and more game variety is always better. Luckily Nintendo is now able to make portable systems that are strong enough to deliver console level games, and can therefore run console games (with appropriate graphical downgrades), but unfortunately most third parties still don't bother doing the work to bring those games to Nintendo's systems. Though I think this will be at least a little better with the Switch 2, because the Switch came after two gens of leading third parties away - Wii was the first system to be well underpowered compared to competitors and used motion controls so it was very different, then the Wii U was a massive failure, so with the Switch's success plus a normal control scheme hopefully third parties will be more onboard by the time Switch 2 rolls around.

Also more power enables better experiences. It may or may not make the games themselves better, but it can be used to make more engrossing environments in which you play, make games run more smoothly, create bigger experiences on-screen, etc. For example, in many ways BotW is better and technically more impressive than Horizon Zero Dawn, but Horizon's environments are absolutely lush while BotW went with an open plains style because the Switch wouldn't be able to remotely handle BotW with a super lush environment. I'd love to play a BotW-like Zelda game on Switch 2 with the level of environmental detail of Horizon. That's not to say BotW's environment isn't detailed or doesn't look amazing, because it absolutely does and is a gorgeous game, but a lot of it is in the open plains style with a smattering of rocks and trees and other things. A Switch 2 with vastly increased power will deliver a much more impressive environment for Hyrule.

Anyway also obviously the Switch 2 should be more powerful because why would you buy a new system that wasn't a significant upgrade? If you're not gonna do a significant upgrade then there is no point in having a new system. If the Switch gives super_etecoon everything he wants that is great, but then why would he buy a Switch 2 if it doesn't do anything better than the Switch!

The Switch isn't a Switch because it has an HDMI outlet so you can play on a TV, it's a Switch because you can play console level games on a portable or hook it up to a TV. That's the whole appeal and what makes it different than all previous portables: play full console level games at home or on the go. If Switch 2 doesn't keep up with the latest mobile tech so that it can run graphically downgraded but still good and full versions of console games then it will no longer be a Switch but just be a portable that hooks up to a TV.

I love the Switch, I think it is the ultimate gaming system, but for the Switch 2 to maintain that it needs to maintain the power relative to home consoles that the Switch currently has.

Ah ok i gotcha. Yeah I was just saying they aren't gonna do a third game in the same BotW world because well that would suck. But yeah it is certainly possible they stick with the open world style, as long as they iterate on it a good bit for the Switch 2 game. I'd love an open world Zelda that uses the Switch 2's power to make the world absolutely teeming with life.

I don't know why you are so sure Switch 2 would come out in 2022. 2023 seems far more likely, and would mean there is time to get a later chip. I pretty much think there is no way they will release a new system before 2023. Think about it, Switch is still gaining momentum. It's gonna have about a 20 million sales year this year (better than PS4's best year), and in all likelihood will sell even more next year. In 2021 it should still be selling very strongly (likely a lot better than PS4 did this year, a year before its next system), they're not gonna cut that off with a 2022 release.

I'm assuming they'll do another Spring time release because having two big selling periods in year 1 for the Switch worked really well. So Spring 2023 is the most likely date. Also Nintendo themselves said they want the Switch's lifespan to be longer, which guarantees it'll be no shorter than 6 years. I don't think they'd wait longer than 2023 though because by 2022 they won't be getting any multiplat games anymore since development will have totally switched over to the new gen rather than ps4/one, so to not go too long without any big multiplat games they'll need to release in 2023.

I could see them doing a holiday 2023 release if they need more time to get great launch games ready, which is certainly possible if they want a Zelda or 3D Mario to launch with the system and even if BotW 2 comes out holiday 2020 that'll be a quick turnaround for Zelda, and if there is a second 3D Mario in let's say 2021, that would also be a very quick turnaround to get ready for Spring of 2023. Sometime between March and November 2023 we'll see Switch 2. A Mario Kart 9 + zelda or 3d mario or pokemon launch seems like the best thing to launch with.

So an expected 2023 Switch 2 release should come with a chip from probably 2021, not 2019.

How did I miss this post yesterday?

You start by ignoring that xavier is probably already around 40-50% more powerful than the ps4's gpu. And while it isn't something made for a switch form factor, IF a switch like device were to release in 2019 using a downclocked xavier, it would be a little above ps4 when docked and switch in portable mode. And that's what could be done now. Nvidea's next set of mobile gpus should come out in 2021, benefiting from years of technology advancements and a die shrink to 7-8nm (maybe even 6).

1.5 years then, as the switch was scheduled to release in late 2016 with 2015 tech. This is no different than ps4 and x1 releasing in 2013 with 2012 tech and ps5/xsx coming in 2020 with 2019 tech. Each using what's apropriate for their for factor.

-Less bezels, making it a slimmer product.
-New joycon that is more ergonomic in every mode and more reliable, even if it is bigger. (common, it is possible, I have some ideas). They can also release small joycons for a lite like/portable look.
-backwards compatibility with games. My switch library is just too big and id like to carry over.
-A smaller dock, but that also has trails to charge joycons and has an ethernet input and more USB ports.
-A much higher memory bandwidth, the rest of specs can just double or triple, I think there is no need for more than that.
-VR (not a cardboard one). The new official way to 'switch'.
I have also some crazy ideas like an optional dock for deep learning super sampling to reach 4k with no more power on the console and optional switch version with double size but with foldable screen(like foldable phones)... But they would be too expensive and too niche.

Oh now I see. Can it have a unique art style as well or does it have to have Botw 1&2 art style?

Either would be fine.  I think I liked Twilight Princess' art style the best, but BotW's art style was good too.