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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The cuts for the Sw/Sh dex were worse than even the most pessimistic predictions

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A bit weird reading these comments saying “I dont care about the old pokemon at all, praise be to Yevon”, alright so youve been playing this franchise for 15-20 or so years and at no point whatsoever you had favorites, pokemon you liked more than others or that one pokemon you HAD to have on your team, cause they’re awesome/cute/cool/nostalgia/whateverreason?

I mean, check the list, a lot of the fan-favorites are being left out. No Alakazam, Scizor, Dragonite, Garchomp, Heracross, your boy Mewtwo, that other one you love so much that looks like a blob, Gliscor, every starter other than the overexposed Charizard, bla bla, etc etc.
In my personal and completely arbitrary experience which only applies to me and therefore you might as well stop reading right now, I hardly ever used Alolan pokemon cause they all sucked, they had horrible stats, so usually 4 of the 6 pokemon in the team were “old ones”.



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The fact that so many Kanto pokemon got cut baffles me. At first glance, it seems that Kanto favouritism is not true. But then I remembered that Let's Go is a thing: a Switch pokemon game with all 151 Kanto games. If the cut was technically done due to technical reasons (to focus on other aspects of the game) why would they cut so many pokemons when they are already made? It seems like a deliberate axing from the game, considering they are already 100% done.

What would be worse? GF not adding them because they can't or not adding them because they don't want to?

Last edited by Darwinianevolution - on 05 November 2019

You know it deserves the GOTY.

Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

JWeinCom said:

Diminishing returns.  At a certain point, when there are more Pokemon than I'll ever actually use or even catch, the additional Pokemon will add nothing to my enjoyment.  There are also potential metagame benefits to having a smaller number of Pokemon.

Uh, good for you. You're going have to elaborate on the metagame part though, cause less Pokemon only means less team builds and strategies to use and go up against.



They'll sell the missing ones separately. Gazillions dollars incoming!



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mZuzek said:

It's quite obvious by now that the Pokémon being cut is a deliberate move made by the Pokémon Company. No game in the series has had all species available since US/UM, and the last game to treat it as a somewhat important thing was OR/AS all the way back in 2014. To be honest, it's a good business strategy - limit the content you already have, and you can use that content as a selling point for any future games with little to no effort. It's Pokémon, too, so they know people will buy into that mentality because they buy whatever's thrown at them. For the Pokémon Company, it's a win-win.

For us, it fucking sucks.

Not me, I ain't buying another Pokemon game that fails to live up to it's name. I'm sure I wont be the only one either, but of course that wont be enough make a difference to Game Freak.



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Yeah, 15 million is a conservative estimate. I'm waiting to see how it is reviewed than I'll sample the final product myself. I try not to judge something I haven't experienced.  If the game is bad, I won't buy it.  If the game is good, I will buy it.  It is that simple.  

Edit

I am also guessing an 85+ Metacritic.  Could be wrong, but that seems like a reasonable guess.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 05 November 2019

Meh don't really care Im still looking forward to this and playing it with my kids(might just get the double pack for this reason)



It's truly depressing to see and read how many people are so willing to settle for mediocrity from the biggest multimedia franchise in the world and the one of the biggest video game franchises in the world, 2nd only to Mario.
At this point, my biggest issue isn't even the whole Pokedex and Pokemon getting cut, but the stupid, pathetic excuses/lies that Game Freak and the Pokemon Company are spouting to justify it.
Competitive balancing? Since when has Game Freak given a shit about the competitive side of Pokemon?
Focusing on improved graphics, textures, etc.? The game looks as average as you can get and some points look down right atrocious for today's standards. Those trees might be passable for Pokemon Stadium on the Nintendo 64, but on the Switch? I don't think so.
It's bad enough that they cut out such an essential and important feature, but now they're going to treat me like an idiot by saying it's because of reasons or issues that they either never cared about before or could easily rectify, but they're either too lazy or too stupid to do so? Absolutely unacceptable!

This wasn't an issue back in any of the prior 7 generations, not even on the 3DS where we got 700-800 Pokemon with 3D graphics. It wasn't a problem then, so why is it an issue now? And don't give me the "It's on the Switch/It's on an HD system now" garbage. They had all the time they needed to prepare for the jump and even got a good taste of it thanks to Let's Go. And if it was such a big issue... THEY HAVE NINTENDO ON SPEED DIAL!! They couldn't have just called them up and said "Hey, we need help here!" Then, have Nintendo and/or Monolith Soft., someone who is well familiar, accustomed, and even comfortable with HD development, especially for JRPGs,, would have been able to help them out and lend them as much support and resources as they needed. I highly doubt Nintendo would've said no. It's Pokemon! One of their biggest, blockbuster franchises under their lineup. Like I said, 2nd only to Mario, their Golden Boy. For the first, core RPG Pokemon games on an HD Nintendo system, this just looks like the same old shit with slapped on HD graphics and less content than the 3DS games. That's colossally disappointing. Especially when I can't help but look at what Nintendo is doing with their other major, top-tier franchises: Zelda with Breath of the Wild; Mario with Super Mario Odyssey; Smash Bros. with Ultimate; Even Fire Emblem with Three Houses pushed more boundaries and took more steps to push the franchise forward than what Pokemon is doing now! And you know why? Because Intelligent Systems actually got someone experienced and familiar with HD development to help them out: Three Houses is largely the work of Koei Tecmo with Intelligent Systems & the Fire Emblem team serving as supervisors and advisors. If Game Freak and the Pokemon Company's resources and tools are so limited (Which is utter horseshit, they can have all the resources and tools they could ever want or need, because it's fucking Pokemon!) Then why couldn't they have done the same by having Nintendo or Monolith Soft help or take over, with them serving as supervisors, advisors, and guides on how to make a proper Pokemon game?

This entire situation is just the biggest, most glaring showcase of Game Freak and the Pokemon Company's utter laziness, stubborness, and incompetence. Their inability and/or unwillingness to get with the times and truly deliver an unforgettable, revolutionary, and franchise defining title that will push Pokemon to greater and higher heights than ever before, just like Zelda got, multiple times, with Zelda 1, Ocarina of Time, and now, Breath of the Wild; Just like what Mario got, multiple times, with Mario 1, Mario World, Mario 64, Mario Galaxy, and now, Mario Odyssey; Just like what Smash Bros has now with Ultimate. While all of Nintendo's other franchises are taking steps forward, Pokemon is taking steps back! And as someone who is always going into each new game, hoping and expecting it to be better than the last, that's inexcusable.

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 05 November 2019

Jpcc86 said:
A bit weird reading these comments saying “I dont care about the old pokemon at all, praise be to Yevon”, alright so youve been playing this franchise for 15-20 or so years and at no point whatsoever you had favorites, pokemon you liked more than others or that one pokemon you HAD to have on your team, cause they’re awesome/cute/cool/nostalgia/whateverreason?

I mean, check the list, a lot of the fan-favorites are being left out. No Alakazam, Scizor, Dragonite, Garchomp, Heracross, your boy Mewtwo, that other one you love so much that looks like a blob, Gliscor, every starter other than the overexposed Charizard, bla bla, etc etc.
In my personal and completely arbitrary experience which only applies to me and therefore you might as well stop reading right now, I hardly ever used Alolan pokemon cause they all sucked, they had horrible stats, so usually 4 of the 6 pokemon in the team were “old ones”.

I've raised a Starmie in just about every game I've played.  I would love it if Starmie was in it, but my experience is not going to be significantly diminished by having to choose something else.  Also Alolan Ninetails was awesome.

Edit: If I buy the game at all.  I may not, but that's more due to general franchise fatigue than the dex issue.  

Lonely_Dolphin said:
JWeinCom said:

Diminishing returns.  At a certain point, when there are more Pokemon than I'll ever actually use or even catch, the additional Pokemon will add nothing to my enjoyment.  There are also potential metagame benefits to having a smaller number of Pokemon.

Uh, good for you. You're going have to elaborate on the metagame part though, cause less Pokemon only means less team builds and strategies to use and go up against.

It's a lot easier to balance a metagame with less Pokemon for one thing.  And a lot of the Pokemon that are gone were a bit on the unbalanced side.

Fewer potential strategies means less depth but more accessibility.  The more potential threats that there are, the harder it is to make a team that can be adequately prepared for all of them. With a small number of Pokemon you can be reasonably prepared for whatever your opponent throws at you.  The more Pokemon, the more potential strategies, and you're at a point where you just have to pick and choose which threats you're going to be ready for, and if the opponent sends something out that you didn't prepare for, no amount of smart play will help, and you just have to take the L.

There's also the element that it's a more even playing field for new players since long time players already have a boatload of options to pick from.  And there's the fact that legendaries had become so insane that they had to be moved to their own metagame, and maybe this time they could actually be folded back into the main meta.

Of course, the same thing could also be accomplished with a national dex only battle mode.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 05 November 2019

JWeinCom said:

Also Alolan Ninetails was awesome.