Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The cuts for the Sw/Sh dex were worse than even the most pessimistic predictions

Tagged games:

An older game with significantly inferior graphics had more Pokemon??? No ****. It was easier and cost far less to do "more" back before HD. Modern development costs are extremely high, which is why most games have cut backs. Like how GT reused car models.  And we aren't getting less.  We are getting a Pokemon with plenty of Pokemon, in HD with surround sound.  

At the end of the day the game has 400 older Pokemon plus 95 new pokemon, for a total of 495....  I cannot understand how anybody looks at close to 500 pokemon and comes to the conclusion that isn't enough.  Other than people like to itch, especially gamers.  Look if the game turns out really bad, than itch away.  But man, shouldn't we wait to play the actual finished product before making such strong (emotional) claims?  

But more to the point.  My pet peeve is people who clearly don't like a product but yet spend all day obsessing about it.  The pokemon hating crew talks more pokemon than those who are legitimately interested.  It reminds me of how every Star Wars thread is covered in people talking about how much they hate Rey.  Why people feel the need to spend time making sure everybody knows they hate a certain product is something I frankly don't understand.  Granted I work 5 days a week, so maybe I just don't have the free time others have.

Short version, don't like Pokemon S/S, don't buy it, move on.  Nobody really cares if GameFreak hurt your little feelings because reasons.

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 05 November 2019

Around the Network

If they added all the pokemon at once what would they do for DLC?



我是广州人

Chrkeller said:

An older game with significantly inferior graphics had more Pokemon??? No ****. It was easier and cost far less to do "more" back before HD. Modern development costs are extremely high, which is why most games have cut backs. Like how GT reused car models.  And we aren't getting less.  We are getting a Pokemon with plenty of Pokemon, in HD with surround sound.  

At the end of the day the game has 400 older Pokemon plus 95 new pokemon, for a total of 495....  I cannot understand how anybody looks at close to 500 pokemon and comes to the conclusion that isn't enough.  Other than people like to itch, especially gamers.  Look if the game turns out really bad, than itch away.  But man, shouldn't we wait to play the actual finished product before making such strong (emotional) claims?  

But more to the point.  My pet peeve is people who clearly don't like a product but yet spend all day obsessing about it.  The pokemon hating crew talks more pokemon than those who are legitimately interested.  It reminds me of how every Star Wars thread is covered in people talking about how much they hate Rey.  Why people feel the need to spend time making sure everybody knows they hate a certain product is something I frankly don't understand.  Granted I work 5 days a week, so maybe I just don't have the free time others have.

Short version, don't like Pokemon S/S, don't buy it, move on.  Nobody really cares if GameFreak hurt your little feelings because reasons.

Ah my bad, totally worth cutting over 50% of Pokemon for them N64 trees! What a dummy Sakurai is, shoulda cut half the roster, now Smash Ultimate wont make any money! lol you can make all the apologies and excuses you want, doesn't change the fact that the game has less Pokemon than a 13 year old predecessor. Last I counted, 400 is less than 500, so yes we are getting less, a fuckton less when compared to last gen. This is Mario Tennis Ultra Smash levels of embarrassment.

No, the game has 400 Pokemon period, that includes the new ones. That you still don't understand how 400 is unacceptable after I just explained it shows your willful ignorance. What strong emotional claims? It's a fact that not all Pokemon are in this game. Are you denying this? Is it not fair to be upset that your favorite Pokemon were cut because Game Freak couldn't be bothered to add them in despite already having the models?

What you're doing is stupid, there's no benefit complaining about complainers. There is however benefit in criticizing the game as it can lead to a better game. That's why people do it, they want the stuff they care about to be good. It's silly to expect everyone to share your lack of care or standards. We can still voice our criticisms while not buying the game and playing others. Likewise I don't care if what I'm saying hurts your little feelings, I'm going to say what I think and you're just gonna have to deal with it.



Chrkeller said:

An older game with significantly inferior graphics had more Pokemon??? No ****. It was easier and cost far less to do "more" back before HD. Modern development costs are extremely high, which is why most games have cut backs. Like how GT reused car models.  And we aren't getting less.  We are getting a Pokemon with plenty of Pokemon, in HD with surround sound.  

At the end of the day the game has 400 older Pokemon plus 95 new pokemon, for a total of 495....  I cannot understand how anybody looks at close to 500 pokemon and comes to the conclusion that isn't enough.  Other than people like to itch, especially gamers.  Look if the game turns out really bad, than itch away.  But man, shouldn't we wait to play the actual finished product before making such strong (emotional) claims?  

But more to the point.  My pet peeve is people who clearly don't like a product but yet spend all day obsessing about it.  The pokemon hating crew talks more pokemon than those who are legitimately interested.  It reminds me of how every Star Wars thread is covered in people talking about how much they hate Rey.  Why people feel the need to spend time making sure everybody knows they hate a certain product is something I frankly don't understand.  Granted I work 5 days a week, so maybe I just don't have the free time others have.

Short version, don't like Pokemon S/S, don't buy it, move on.  Nobody really cares if GameFreak hurt your little feelings because reasons.

Ok, let's do like Jack the Reaper and go through your argument piece by piece.

It was easier and cost far less to do "more" back before HD. Modern development costs are extremely high, which is why most games have cut backs.

Not really, modern game development has quite a lot of tools to save time and money in big projects such as this. The 3D models are reused, the animations are reused, some of the sprites are reused... GameFreak has been saving work since the 7th gen. Even so, a turned based JRPG such as Pokemon won't ever take the resources (both monetary or in hardware) that many other big titles that could use this excuse. Adding the remaining pokemon, those who already made (design, move list, type, breeding compatibility...) should not be a problem for a company that's been doing it for years. And that's not even counting things such as triple and rotating battle, z moves, battle frontier, contests... things lost due to their chronic dispositions of "making every game unique".

But even if we accepted GameFreak had to do what it had to do to make this game possible because of resources... we'd still be talking about a product backed by The Pokemon Co. and Nintendo, working on the highest grossing entertainment franchise ever. The resources are not a problem here. If anything, their reticence in managing their resources is a problem in and of itself.

And again, even if we accepted all of that, we'd still be paying for a game with overall less content for considerably more than a 3DS title. It's a terrible deal.

We are getting a Pokemon with plenty of Pokemon, in HD with surround sound.  

That's a standard more than a decade old. This is not a merit anymore. There's also the fact they promised a considerable jump in graphical quality to make up for the lost content, and from what we've seen, that's just nowhere to be seen. And the argument of "it's not the final product yet" is getting weaker and weaker the more we get close to launch and the graphics still look subpar in comparison with even other pokemon titles such as Battle Revolution (which still had more Pokemon in it, by the way).

I cannot understand how anybody looks at close to 500 pokemon and comes to the conclusion that isn't enough.

People who like to play competitively like more options, and cutting the roster in half will be harmful to balance, making it stagnant. Just look at Let's Go metagame to see most players with the exact same team because choosing from a pool of around 150 is just too little. People who like to catch them all each generation like the challenge, and if it's cut by half then it's something much less enjoyable. People who want to move their old pokemons to newer titles can't do it because they are not even programmed. People who have favourites cut out simply won't be able to use them. There's a lot of reason why the pokemon cut is the worst thing GF has ever done in regards of cutting content.

But man, shouldn't we wait to play the actual finished product before making such strong (emotional) claims?  

So noone can criticise a product before it comes out? People are not stupid, if they see something going on, they will call the creators out on it. If marketing exists to make people excited about a product, they should be aware that the opposite can happen as well. Plus, critisizing a product is a good way to offer feedback to the creators to improve their work. Just imagine things such as the Sonic movie if there was no backlash for the design. And about the "emotional" part, is not emotional to say less content for more money is a bad thing, it is an objective fact.

My pet peeve is people who clearly don't like a product but yet spend all day obsessing about it. The pokemon hating crew talks more pokemon than those who are legitimately interested.[...]Why people feel the need to spend time making sure everybody knows they hate a certain product is something I frankly don't understand. 

Because people who are fans care about the product and want it to be better, not worse. If they didn't care, they wouldn't say anything. And you are assuming here the fans who complain aren't really interested. They are, otherwise there would be no reaction. Even letting aside things such as criticism and consumer awareness, which are really important in today's gaming sphere, considering how much is controlled by hype and marketing.

Granted I work 5 days a week, so maybe I just don't have the free time others have.

Ok, that's just condescending.



You know it deserves the GOTY.

Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

"So noone can criticise a product before it comes out?"

Yes, IMHO. Until I have hands on experience anything I say is conjecture/speculation. I wouldn't judge a restaurant I haven't eaten at. I wouldn't judge a book I haven't read. I could list more examples, but I think you get the point. As for the rest of your nonsense, gaming development costs are far higher than previously. Stating otherwise is either a flat out lie or reeks of ignorance. Either way, meh.



Around the Network
Lonely_Dolphin said:

Dayum, I expected 100-200 being cut. Guess I'm still underestimating Gamefreak's incompetence.

uran10 said:

There is rumor that once you beat the game the pokedex expands to over 600. I don't remember the exact number cause I've been dodging spoilers as best I can. Either way, if this 600 thing is true or not, well it is what it is. Disappointing but whatever

Why "but whatever" though? Why settle for laziness and mediocrity when you could just not and instead get a game that actually has effort put into it? Just curious is all, it's your money so you're free to do what you want with it.

No I don't have a lot of money but I've been looking forward to this for a while now. Am I disappointed? Yes. But will I enjoy the game? Yes. I'm more on the casual side than any other and while it does suck that my fave 2 pokemon didn't make the cut, I'm interested in seeing pokemon on the switch and what they have in store for us. I'm seeing lots of effort put into other areas of the game so while losing dex hurts, its not all bad.



Follow my Gaming and Graphics Business on facebook and on Twitter:

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=101878997952596&ref=br_rs

https://twitter.com/KellyGGWD

Chrkeller said:
"So noone can criticise a product before it comes out?"

Yes, IMHO. Until I have hands on experience anything I say is conjecture/speculation. I wouldn't judge a restaurant I haven't eaten at. I wouldn't judge a book I haven't read. I could list more examples, but I think you get the point. As for the rest of your nonsense, gaming development costs are far higher than previously. Stating otherwise is either a flat out lie or reeks of ignorance. Either way, meh.

"Reeks of ignorance" says the guy who just ignored almost everything that was said, that believes no facts can be known about a game before it outs even if they come directly from the developers. You know you can like a thing and still acknowledge what's objectively bad about it, there's no need to deny reality in order to defend it.



Lonely_Dolphin said:
Chrkeller said:
"So noone can criticise a product before it comes out?"

Yes, IMHO. Until I have hands on experience anything I say is conjecture/speculation. I wouldn't judge a restaurant I haven't eaten at. I wouldn't judge a book I haven't read. I could list more examples, but I think you get the point. As for the rest of your nonsense, gaming development costs are far higher than previously. Stating otherwise is either a flat out lie or reeks of ignorance. Either way, meh.

"Reeks of ignorance" says the guy who just ignored almost everything that was said, that believes no facts can be known about a game before it outs even if they come directly from the developers. You know you can like a thing and still acknowledge what's objectively bad about it, there's no need to deny reality in order to defend it.

Yes I tend to ignore red herrings and side crap that is irrelevant.  I play games before deciding things such as "I'm paying more for less."  I have no problems with criticisms, I just (strongly) believe said criticisms should be on the final product after personal experience.  I remember in my younger days being mad as **** when Wind Waker was first shown.  I thought Nintendo killed Zelda and was furious with the cell aspects of the graphic engine.  Turns out WW is one of my all time favorite games.  Lesson learned.  Relax, judge the final product.  I mean most in this thread are worried about content....  but haven't played the game.  That is just stupid.  

Edit

And yes, I am fine with 400.  I don't see collecting all 400.  They could add another 1,000 and it wouldn't matter to me.  I wouldn't collect that many Pokemon.  I would rather them cut Pokemon and put focus on the story, environments and in the battle system.  A balanced battle system matters far more than having tons of Pokemon.  Again this reminds me of people complaining that Forza only has 200 cars...  when most play the game and use 30 cars....   



On the plus side, Hitmonlee made it in! On the minus side, no legendaries except for mew??? I understand GF throwing a bone to those who didn't buy the pokeball+ attachment but bought lets go but omitting the other legendaries is plain stupid imo. Also no UB's? That's just a plain insult to those of us for whatever reason didn't buy US/UM, It seems we are being punished for that and will never be able to use the last 4(?) UB's or the electric legendary exclusive to US/UM. Nintendo/GF also used to tease a new gen pokemon for future games, in spin-offs (See munchlax). In let's go it was melmetal. This time.... not even available. So the only chance we get to play with it is a thorough grind through PoGo and let's go. Completely unacceptable in my book. Also, as others have said, I play competitively and it's nice to have a lot of choice of pokemon to play from. There were many different pokemon in my teams, which I had spent hours competitively breeding. Some I liked, some I just found viable to use competitively. I understand that possibly making a few cuts could be deemed necessary to keep the metagame balanced but come on! It's not a cut it's a brutal bloodbath! There are so many cut that I used competitively and i'm sure many others that others did too. They cut Garchomp FGS! Not only is it a lot of fans' favourites but pretty much a "Darling" of the competitive scene since gen 4! I doubt i'll even play competitively from here on out, unless I find a niche I like, or if they somehow manage to release most of the "old" pokemon through DLC or patches. It is a pretty scummy business practice if i'm honest though.



DON'T WIN ME CHIBI BUDDY DON'T WIN ME.

ANIMAL CROSSING NEW LEAF FRIEND CODE:- 5129 1175 1029. MESSAGE ME.
ANDY MURRAY:- GRAND SLAM WINNER!

In my opinion the N64 was not just the best console of the 5th gen but, to this day the best console ever created!

Chrkeller said:

Yes I tend to ignore red herrings and side crap that is irrelevant.

You tend to ignore inconvenient truths that prove you wrong is what you mean. I'd love to hear you explain how information about the game from the game itself is an irrelevant red herring though.