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Forums - Sales Discussion - So.. CNBC says Xbox has sold 46.9 WW, any thoughts?

BraLoD said:
Deeds said:

Oh yes it will. I'll put money on that. And since Microsoft will still make a successor to the Xbox One (which will limit PS5s max sales potential by stealing marketshare from it) the Switch will also outsell the PS5 total sales.

No it won't, and you also won't.

You do realise you have a post history in this site, don't you?

You came back from a 5 years ago state where you were sure the PS4, a shit console as you said, was in a downfall and the Wii U would win and cause NPDs meltdowns...

You have a personal bias against the PS4 (at least, maybe the whole brand or even Sony) and a in favor of Nintendo, your posts aren't based on logic, trends, patterns, data or anything but personal bias.

You would have to be crazy to put your money on that, that's nothing more than what you want to see, not an actual prediction.

Nothing wrong with having your preferences and things you dislike, though, we all do, but you just came back from so long ago and you haven't learned anything with that? Please...

So I was wrong. Sue me. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong. That's life. As for the PS4, I still think it is a steaming pile of shit packed with over-rated games. That's my opinion. Deal with it. I don't think I'll be wrong about the Switch, but what if I am? Life goes on. You're the one who seems to be getting angry over plastic. That's not my problem. As for my 5 year absence, who cares. I've got a life you know.

⚠️ WARNED: Trolling ~ CGI

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 13 October 2019

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RolStoppable said:
Conina said:

If we rule out every person or company by default who has been proven wrong at least once in his/her estimates, there aren't any left, including the VGC numbers of course.

"They are always wrong" is as generalizing as "they are always right and I blindly trust their numbers".

The point is that a source that has demonstrated to fail at an incredibly basic level doesn't need to be taken seriously. IDC is a market research firm that made an estimate for something that was already a known entity. That's ridiculous, but it also shows how much - or rather little - care goes into their video game analyses.

It makes no sense to take their word over Daniel Ahmad's statements when the latter has displayed a higher level of competence. That's what it comes down to: When you have two conflicting sources, do you pick the reliable one or the other one?

The one in line with our bias of course. Since Xbox1 numbers will never be shown, people can claim anything and be as unrealistic as possible and they will never be proven right or wrong. So fans will always go with the highest estimate available, based on evidence or not. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

RolStoppable said:
Conina said:

It is an (30 years old) established business news channel worth roughly $4 billion with coverage of U.S. and international financial markets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNBC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Data_Corporation

And IDC is one of the bigger market research companies with thousands of analysts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Data_Corporation

But sure, let's just ignore or ridicule their estimates because the estimates of some other analysts are more in line with our own bias.

As far as I remember, IDC is the market research firm that got their PS4 number wrong despite Sony officially announcing it about three months before the IDC report. They may have lots of analysts, but apparently none that have enough competence for video game sales. There's no good reason to give IDC the benefit of the doubt when they couldn't even correctly relay a PS4 number that came directly from Sony.

Yeah no reason to trust these guys.



Conina said:
PAOerfulone said:

That's nice. Are you writing a research paper?

Sorry if I want to have an informed discussion supported by facts instead of pure bashing and wild speculations. Obviously here is not the right place for that.

PAOerfulone said:

Doesn't explain where they got that 46.9 million number from or the fact that the 0.3% of sales coming from Japan does not match at all with the actual statistic you get when you divide 110,000 units (the amount of Xbox One units reportedly sold in Japan) by 0.003, which gets you to 36,666,667 units. 

Even if we're being generous and say that the percentage of sales is actually 0.25%, and we just rounded up to 0.3%, that would still only equate to 44 million units sold, which is WAY off that 46.9 million mark. 

So they obviously fucked up somewhere. And unless we get numbers or confirmation from the only party or source that matters, Microsoft, then we can't take what these guys are saying seriously, because what they're saying doesn't make any sense.

What you don't understand (or ignore):

  • the 0.3% of sales coming from Japan aren't a fact, they are an estimate with margins of error
  • the Famitsu numbers aren't facts but estimates with margins of error
  • the VGC numbers aren't facts but estimates with margins of error
  • the IDC numbers aren't facts but estimates with margins of error
  • the numbers of the analyst Daniel Ahmad aren't facts but estimates with margins of error
  • the numbers analysts X, Y or Z aren't facts but estimates with margins of error
  • we don't know which numbers are the closest to the truth until Microsoft gives that information eventually
  • multiplying or dividing estimate A with estimate b to prove that estimate C is wrong is a fool's errand and only serves confirmation bias

What YOU don't understand AND ignore:

- I DID account for margins of error, that's why I was generous enough to give the 0.25% number, which is the lowest possible number you need to round up to 0.3%. And it's still well below the mark.
- You can't give two different statistics/estimates that completely contradict each other after you do the math and expect to be taken seriously. That's not how estimating data works. It's one or the other, you can't have both.
- All numbers and estimates are just that, estimates with margins of error. But some are more reliable than others. That's the point. Why should I take this source, who can't get their estimates straight, seriously over other sources who stick to one narrative, one story, and one estimate, AND have a much better track record of accuracy on their resumes than these guys do? The same guys who, as Rol mentioned earlier, completely botched PS4 sales figures that completely contradicted figures from Sony themselves, BEFORE they published their own? Every analyst is wrong from time to time, including Famitsu, VGC, and Daniel Ahmad... but Good God... there's being wrong, and then there's just not giving a shit. 

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 12 October 2019

Rather amusing that the infamous cliff is still being proclaimed with regard to Switch sales.

First Switch was only selling cos it was the hot new fad and it was going to fall off a cliff in 2018 once the novelty wore off.

Then Switch had "used all their big franchises already" by the end of 2018 and it was going to fall off a cliff in 2019.

Now it's "The Switch will fall off a cliff when PS5 and Xbox Two come out", despite years of sales data showing Switch and Playstation/Xbox don't affect each other's sales.



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What's worse is that once Switch sales inevitably do start to decline in 2021, the PS5 and Xbox Scarlett's first full year in the market, those people are going to be yelling "See! I told you so!" Completely ignoring the fact that the Switch will be entering its 5th year on the market after March 3, 2021 and starting to show its age, like any other system would at that point. 



PAOerfulone said:
Conina said:

Sorry if I want to have an informed discussion supported by facts instead of pure bashing and wild speculations. Obviously here is not the right place for that.

What you don't understand (or ignore):

  • the 0.3% of sales coming from Japan aren't a fact, they are an estimate with margins of error
  • the Famitsu numbers aren't facts but estimates with margins of error
  • the VGC numbers aren't facts but estimates with margins of error
  • the IDC numbers aren't facts but estimates with margins of error
  • the numbers of the analyst Daniel Ahmad aren't facts but estimates with margins of error
  • the numbers analysts X, Y or Z aren't facts but estimates with margins of error
  • we don't know which numbers are the closest to the truth until Microsoft gives that information eventually
  • multiplying or dividing estimate A with estimate b to prove that estimate C is wrong is a fool's errand and only serves confirmation bias

What YOU don't understand AND ignore:

- I DID account for margins of error, that's why I was generous enough to give the 0.25% number, which is the lowest possible number you need to round up to 0.3%. And it's still well below the mark.
- You can't give two different statistics/estimates that completely contradict each other after you do the math and expect to be taken seriously. That's not how estimating data works. It's one or the other, you can't have both.

You did only account for a margin of error for ONE variable and took the second variable as a fact. What if Famitsu got it wrong and there are 120,000 Xbox Ones or 125,000 sold in Japan? And the estimates don't completely contradict each other, when you consider slight deviations from the true numbers on both variables.



Conina said:

You did only account for a margin of error for ONE variable and took the second variable as a fact. What if Famitsu got it wrong and there are 120,000 Xbox Ones or 125,000 sold in Japan? And the estimates don't completely contradict each other, when you consider slight deviations from the true numbers on both variables.

Alright, let's account for if Famitsu got it wrong and do the 120,000 and 125,000 unit numbers.

At those units, divided by 0.3% would equate to:

40 million units (120,000)
41.67 million units (125,000)

So those would still be way below the mark and considerably lower than VGChartz' current worldwide estimates.

And if we reduce the percentage to 0.25%, they would equate to:

48 million units (120,000)
50 million units (125,000)

Now they would be way above the mark.
But all of them are way off from that 46.9 million figure.

There's way too much deviation and margins for error are far too great to be taken seriously, that's the point. In any statistics class you take in college, the point is to maintain the smallest margin of error as possible. Enough to where you can narrow it down to a specific, small range. This range is all over the place. From as low as 36 million to as high as 50 million. You'd have better luck throwing a dart and trying to hit a bulls-eye with a blindfold on. 

Bottom line: There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why we should take CNBC seriously over other trackers and sources that have proven, time and time again, to be much more reliable and accurate. That's all there is to it, and if you can't understand that, then I see no point or purpose to continue this conversation. We're done here.



PAOerfulone said:

What's worse is that once Switch sales inevitably do start to decline in 2021, the PS5 and Xbox Scarlett's first full year in the market, those people are going to be yelling "See! I told you so!" Completely ignoring the fact that the Switch will be entering its 5th year on the market after March 3, 2021 and starting to show its age, like any other system would at that point. 

That is exactly how it will go, annual sales could be something like this

2017-13m (Switch launch)

2018-16m

2019-20m

2020-17m (PS5/XB4 launch)

2021-14m

2022-10m

2023-6m (Switch 2 launch)

2024-3m

2025-1m

Total-100m

and people will still claim that Switch sales were affected by PS5/XB4 despite having a completely normal and healthy sales curve.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:

That is exactly how it will go, annual sales could be something like this

2017-13m (Switch launch)

2018-16m

2019-20m

2020-17m (PS5/XB4 launch)

2021-14m

2022-10m

2023-6m (Switch 2 launch)

2024-3m

2025-1m

Total-100m

and people will still claim that Switch sales were affected by PS5/XB4 despite having a completely normal and healthy sales curve.

I actually think they're going to fall just short of 20 million this year, probably around 18.5-19 million is more likely I think. I'm starting to also think, more and more, that 2020 might be the peak year. The Switch will enter the next year with white hot momentum between Sword/Shield and the Lite model, and then not too long afterwards, we'll have Animal Crossing: New Horizons, which will be the biggest Q1 title for the Switch since Breath of the Wild. And there's going to be at least one more big, AAA Nintendo game. I think that game will be whatever the new 3D Mario game will be, rather than Breath of the Wild 2. And I'm almost certain we'll get new Pokemon games, probably the Diamond/Pearl remakes fans have been expecting and wanting since OR/AS. A year being headlined by Animal Crossing, 3D Mario, and Pokemon, for a system that's selling for $200. I'm almost certain that Breath of the Wild 2 is going to be a 2021 game. And I also think we're going to get a new hardware revision that year that's going to be upgraded hardware much like the Game Boy Color/DSi/New 3DS/PS4 Pro/Xbox One X. And I'm going to keep calling it the Nintendo Switch+ until it is either dis-confirmed or named otherwise.

And I think 2021 and 2022 are going to be considerably higher than you think, especially 2022 as I think that's when we're getting Pokemon Gen 9 as a final swan song for the Switch, much like Sun/Moon was for the 3DS. I also think it's when we'll finally get Metroid Prime 4. And I think it's going to sell well above 100 million. I think 100 million is actually on the lower end of potential lifetime sales, rather than the higher end. The way I can see it playing out is this:

2017: 13 million 
2018: 16 million
2019: 19 million
2020: 20 million (Animal Crossing, 3D Mario, Pokemon Gen 4 remakes)
2021: 17 million (Breath of the Wild 2, Switch+ revision)
2022: 14 million (Pokemon Gen 9, Metroid Prime 4)
2023: 8 million (Switch 2 launch)
2024: 4 million
2025: 2 million
2026 to discontinued: 1 million

Total: 114 million