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Forums - Sales Discussion - September NPD 2019 thread

JRPGfan said:

No one talking about Gears (xbox + pc steam) is at #7 on the list?

it launched early into the month, so its basically a full month and it couldnt get into the top3 spots.
Gears used to be a system seller..... it was a reason to get a xbox, it sold like mad.

Sales must be down by huge margins compaired to older Gears games.

Interesting negative take.

How did those older Gears titles do on debut? What was the retail/Gamepass split like?



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Heh, at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it is "Teh Conspiracy!!1!1" or not. Numbers being hidden (when it is openly disclosed in other industries) benefits no one, not even the people trying to hide the data. What really matters is what you like or not, and I think Sony is garbage so meh.



Hiku said:
Deeds said:

People quickly forgot that NPD started hiding data late into the Wii/PS3/360 era. During the PS2/GCN/Xbox era all the data was wide open. Coincidence? And again, sales data can be used for marketing purposes. For example, "Product X is the best selling thing, get it while its hot!!!!". You cant do that when your product is selling like shit, but you can shut people up and create narratives that are deceptive, like "the Playsation Family of sales". Also notice that they CANT shut up companies that are too strong like Kadokawa Dwango (who owns Famitsu) or Amazon (with their bestseller list).

So they spent money to hide NPD after their console started making a comeback? And then spent money to silence Media Create for numbers that Famitsu still provide?

???

Also, have you noticed how seedless grapes became a thing AFTER America was created? It's because Italy can shut up it's domestic farmers, but they CANT shut up America. Coincidence?

Deeds said:

Bingo!!!! You bring up a very good point. Why would Media Create hide data behind a paywall (which is what they said they are doing), when Famitsu and Dengeki releases that data for FREE???? That sounds like self sabotage on Media Create's part to me. WHO is going to buy that data when it is free elsewhere? Sounds to me like there was some outside influence that made Media create do something stupid. As for you second point AGAIN, NPD STARTED to hide data during the PS3/Xbox 360/Wii generation.

If you read the article I linked, companies were already paying them for their data before.
And the reason a company would chose them was also stated in the article. Because they're considered the most reliable source in Japan. And now they plan to expand their services to track other regions.

Their detailed analysis of sales data was behind a paywall, not the sales numbers itself. Hiding the sales numbers at the time they did it was suspicious. Who cares anyway, Media Create is now dead and irrelevant (they will not be missed) Everyone is looking at Famitsu.



Replicant said:
Deeds said:

Bingo!!!! You bring up a very good point. Why would Media Create hide data behind a paywall (which is what they said they are doing), when Famitsu and Dengeki releases that data for FREE???? That sounds like self sabotage on Media Create's part to me. WHO is going to buy that data when it is free elsewhere? Sounds to me like there was some outside influence that made Media create do something stupid. As for you second point AGAIN, NPD STARTED to hide data during the PS3/Xbox 360/Wii generation.

Bold: Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we have monthly leaks until 2015 where NPD's ninjas started to hunt down leakers such as Aquamarine? In 2015, Sony dominated the gaming world and it seems like such a weird time for them to begin requiring NPD to stop leakers.

I guess you are somewhat new to this? I remember on neogaf people complaining about NPD restricting data (slowly but surely) long before the PS4 came out.



Deeds said:

Heh, at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it is "Teh Conspiracy!!1!1" or not. Numbers being hidden (when it is openly disclosed in other industries) benefits no one, not even the people trying to hide the data. What really matters is what you like or not, and I think Sony is garbage so meh.

You looking too far at the reasons why numbers are not openly shared. If there’s one thing businesses have realized in the last decade is that data are worth a lot of money. Sales numbers being hidden by NPD or Media Create is nothing unexpected today since they believe they can turn a profit by selling their services. There’s nothing more than that.



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haxxiy said:

I'm just laughing @ people thinking more than a few nerds in the internet care for bragging about monthy US hardware sales.

No one is paying NPD to "hide" anything. They're just following the golden rule that is, if you're good at something, don't do it for free. Money rules.

You really believe big companies DO NOT ever pressure other smaller companies to do their bidding? Really? So naive of you. You must think the world is made of candy and unicorns.



abronn627 said:
Deeds said:

Heh, at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it is "Teh Conspiracy!!1!1" or not. Numbers being hidden (when it is openly disclosed in other industries) benefits no one, not even the people trying to hide the data. What really matters is what you like or not, and I think Sony is garbage so meh.

You looking too far at the reasons why numbers are not openly shared. If there’s one thing businesses have realized in the last decade is that data are worth a lot of money. Sales numbers being hidden by NPD or Media Create is nothing unexpected today since they believe they can turn a profit by selling their services. There’s nothing more than that.

Hiding sales numbers is exclusive to the gaming industry. Why? EDIT. The Automobile industry is far bigger than the gaming industry and yet sales numbers of cars are open to the public. Gaming is such a joke.



Deeds said:

People quickly forgot that NPD started hiding data late into the Wii/PS3/360 era. During the PS2/GCN/Xbox era all the data was wide open. Coincidence? And again, sales data can be used for marketing purposes. For example, "Product X is the best selling thing, get it while its hot!!!!". You cant do that when your product is selling like shit, but you can shut people up and create narratives that are deceptive, like "the Playsation Family of sales". Also notice that they CANT shut up companies that are too strong like Kadokawa Dwango (who owns Famitsu) or Amazon (with their bestseller list).

I want to add to this because one thing the NPD did change during that generation. In Gen 7, Software sales were reported individually by system. So Madden on the 360 and Madden on the PS3 would be on the charts and not included with each other. However, during that time Nintendo was dominating the charts and most of the top 10 was Nintendo. After a few years of Wii Fit and Wii Sports knocking out AAA, they changed it so that it combines sales across consoles which bumps down Nintendo's exclusive games.

So this wouldn't be the first time the NPD has done funny business with their data. Is NPD trying to stomp out leaks because of Nintendo? Who knows, but it's interesting the leaks were stomped out after Nintendo had been dominating the hardware numbers.



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VideoGameAccountant said:
Deeds said:

People quickly forgot that NPD started hiding data late into the Wii/PS3/360 era. During the PS2/GCN/Xbox era all the data was wide open. Coincidence? And again, sales data can be used for marketing purposes. For example, "Product X is the best selling thing, get it while its hot!!!!". You cant do that when your product is selling like shit, but you can shut people up and create narratives that are deceptive, like "the Playsation Family of sales". Also notice that they CANT shut up companies that are too strong like Kadokawa Dwango (who owns Famitsu) or Amazon (with their bestseller list).

I want to add to this because one thing the NPD did change during that generation. In Gen 7, Software sales were reported individually by system. So Madden on the 360 and Madden on the PS3 would be on the charts and not included with each other. However, during that time Nintendo was dominating the charts and most of the top 10 was Nintendo. After a few years of Wii Fit and Wii Sports knocking out AAA, they changed it so that it combines sales across consoles which bumps down Nintendo's exclusive games.

So this wouldn't be the first time the NPD has done funny business with their data. Is NPD trying to stomp out leaks because of Nintendo? Who knows, but it's interesting the leaks were stomped out after Nintendo had been dominating the hardware numbers.

Yup. NPD is pretty shady, so if they want to hide their data totally, fuck them. I wouldn't be surprised if their "data" is actually inaccurate, especially of late. Also notice that Nintendo doesn't deal with them. NPD has been asking Nintendo to share their digital sales with them and Nintendo is like "FUCK YOU." Nintendo obviously sees them as untrustworthy.



What annoys the shit out of me is that game sales data is a hot commodity that's put behind a pay wall. NPD and now also Media Create, after years of providing sales data for free, decided to render said data inaccessible to the general public. Literally only two trackers exist that don't charge for sales data anymore and publish hardware and top software data for free, both of which are in Japan. Perhaps not coincidentally, both are are operated by video game magazines rather than by a market research company, so sales data isn't their bread and butter but is rather an extra provided to the readers. Why haven't major games magazines or websites in the West engaged in any sales tracking? Neither IGN nor GameSpot nor EGM nor Game Informer have even attempted to do what Famitsu and Dengeki do. VGC should have been the resource to rival the NPD, but for whatever reasons never tracked a large enough portion of the retail market to get accurate numbers.

Also, gaming is the only major part of the entertainment industry that's this hush-hush when it comes to this sort of thing. Hollywood routinely brags about how well its movies do, and studios aren't shy about it when a movie flops, either. While revenues don't equal admissions, they do allow us to reasonably estimate how many tickets are sold based on average ticket prices, and we've been getting a steady stream of box office revenue figures since before WW2 when Variety magazine reported them. In the Internet Age, Box Office Mojo has been posting theatrical film revenues for 20 years, but they're an arm of IMDb (itself a subsidiary of Amazon), not of a faceless market research company. The website The Numbers has been posting sales numbers for home video releases for years as well. Nielsen has been publishing TV ratings for decades. Finding out how much a music album has sold isn't particularly difficult, either, and an album's certification has never been some secret hidden from us plebeians. But the games industry is notoriously shadier than and lacking in transparency compared to other parts of the entertainment industry, so perhaps it's no surprise that companies that are just sales trackers and nothing else just decided on a whim to stop giving out data for free even though doing so clearly wasn't hurting their business before (if it did they wouldn't have done it for so long).



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