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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo's game output is improving but still pathetic compared to Wii/DS era

Dulfite said:
I think all companies output will slow down as each generation comes out. Why? Because people expect all that fancy technology to be integrated perfectly.

"It needs to be 720p! Now 1080p! Now 4k! Now 8k!
It needs anti alising!
It needs 30fps! Now 45 for! Now 60fps!
The card should be unlocked!
It needs HDR!"

And of course all these companies are pressured to develop games to take advantage of all these "needs" before many will buy them. How many people won't buy a great game because of one, if not more of these issues? A ton. So developers have to take a lot longer and spend a lot more money to make them and they either can't and lose money from years or not releasing only to fold as a company or they do and their output is diminished. The future of the gaming industry is bleak because of many picky gamers that only will tolerate cutting edge.

Nintendo can get away with not including many of these elements. Even with their cash-cow IPs requiring larger budgets, and more staff and dev time compared to the past, Nintendo still usually plays it safe with the budget. They don't really care about pushing the limits of their hardware or graphical fidelity, as to them, games live or die by their gameplay and concepts alone. This is why Nintendo, even now, is able to put out so many games compared to most publishers, because they don't waste money on superficial stuff that will usually have no benefit to the experience, preferring to splurge only on what will make a better playing and better feeling product.



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sethnintendo said:
Ganoncrotch said:

It's even a whole other world in terms of scaling, you can't just have a 5 course meal where each course is a different amount of chopped apple. You're talking about whole other levels in terms of graphics design, physics design models which didn't exist on the DS, the DS settings for shadows would have been "there are no shadows" that doesn't scale up to what we have today without teams being added to handle those things and it's not a linear scale just based on resolution as well, from a mechanical point of view the amount of complexity in the game world of breath of the wild puts most other titles to shame, never mind other games in the Zelda franchise.

Would agree with the "just buy capcom to get them making your games" They have 2 games this year of any meaning, DMC5 and Resident Evil 2 Remastered, not bad games but one is yet another sequel in a series they've not really evolved since the PS2 and the other a remake of a game from the PSone era which they've been considering and working on for over a decade - From wiki "Capcom first expressed interest in making a remake of Resident Evil 2 in 2002, following a successful release of the remake of the first Resident Evil, but production never started since series creator Shinji Mikami did not want to divert development away from Resident Evil 4. In August 2015, Capcom announced that the remake was in development," 

Also considering the news on their next game... https://www.thesixthaxis.com/2019/05/10/capcom-wont-be-releasing-any-more-big-games-until-well-in-to-2020/ not being until "well into" 2020, so I think definitely strange to compare Nintendo's output to Capcom and in anyway see Capcom as the more favourable choice from the 2.

Lol 2 games.  What the fuck about Monster Hunter World?  You forget about them releasing that game?  Haven't bought on PC but I believe highest selling MH game ever.

2 games and a dlc* from Jan 2019 until sometime in mid 2020, Nice one, yeah they're great.

And yeah I agree if you're going to use foul language in a thread don't tear up when someone replies in kind. I know you think it makes a difference if someone says "that's a stupid fucking argument" or that putting it as a punctuation is less direct and somehow less insult by phrasing it as a statement including a profanity but yeah, you set the tone of your thread when you start it off.

Thread was answered a handful of posts in anyway with "no" I'm off.



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I too would like to see more AA mid-tier games, but with Nintendo's main teams now tasked with making HD AAA blockbusters, that's going to have to fall to other studios, and indeed that has been happening; Link's Awakening for instance was developed by Grezzo. Personally I would like them to be a bit more proactive in outsourcing AA projects, so I can sort of agree to an extent.

SKMBlake said:
Is it you.

Look at what we have this year exclusive wise:
-Super Mario Maker 2
-Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3
-Astral Chain
-Luigi's Mansion
-Link's Awakening
-Kirby
-Pokémon
-Their weird fitness RPG

And the console has almost 2000 games in its library in 2 years, which is very close to the Xbox One and PS4.

And yet you think it's pathetic ? Really ?

You forgot Yoshi's Crafted World and Fire Emblem. :P

Last edited by curl-6 - on 04 October 2019

Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:

I too would like to see more AA mid-tier games, but with Nintendo's main teams now tasked with making HD AAA blockbusters, that's going to have to fall to other studios, and indeed that has been happening; Link's Awakening for instance was developed by Grezzo. Personally I would like them to be a bit more proactive in outsourcing AA projects, so I can sort of agree to an extent.

You can argue that games like Splatoon 2, ARMS, Labo, and Ring Fit Adventure are "AA" titles. As well as stuff like Astral Chain, Kirby, Yoshi's Crafted World, and Marvel UA3. Nintendo always produces games like that. It's just that their AAA franchises needed to take more of a priority early in the system's life. Remember, Nintendo wanted to avoid a Wii U scenario with the Switch, it needed to be as successful as possible, as fast as possible. It's not like their internal teams aren't willing to make these kinds of games either, such as the three games I mentioned above. We'll see more in the Switch's life, as they usually come later in a Nintendo console anyway.



It's just you.

You honestly expect Nintendo to have the same level of output for a system that can give the PS4 and Xbox One a run for their money with enough effort as they did for two systems that were essentially a portable PS1/N64 and two GameCubes duct-taped together? This is a problem for EVERY developer, not just Nintendo. Naughty Dog went from released 4 games on the PS3 (Uncharted 1-3, Last of Us) to just 2 (Uncharted 4, Last of Us 2) and if you wanna count Lost Legacy, then 3. Guerrilla Games went from 3 on the PSP/PS3 (Killzone: Liberation, 2, and 3) to 2 on PS4 (Killzone Shadow Fall, Horizon: Zero Dawn). Santa Monica Studios went from 2 on PS3 to 1 on PS4. RockStar North went from a whopping 6 games on the PS3/360(GTA IV, RDR, L.A. Noire, Max Payne 3, Undead Nightmare, GTA V), to just 1 on the PS4/XBO (Red Dead Redemption 2).

And a lot of the games Nintendo was making during the Wii/DS days were games that took very little resources and manpower to make. Breath of the Wild, alone, required more resources, time, and costs to develop than the Wii series, Brain Age, and Nintendogs combined.
You don't understand how demanding HD games, especially full-scale HD games, that take full advantage and capabilities of the system's power and architecture, truly is compared to games that were made with a haphazard budget and minimal resources.



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PAOerfulone said:

And a lot of the games Nintendo was making during the Wii/DS days were games that took very little resources and manpower to make. Breath of the Wild, alone, required more resources, time, and costs to develop than the Wii series, Brain Age, and Nintendogs combined.
You don't understand how demanding HD games, especially full-scale HD games, that take full advantage and capabilities of the system's power and architecture, truly is compared to games that were made with a haphazard budget and minimal resources.

While it is true that AAA games generally take much more to make these days. Game development costs in general are a case-by-case basis. BotW certainly required a ton of development time and money to make happen, but that doesn't mean a game like ARMS or Ring-Fit requires the same amount of time and resources. In fact in the case of the latter two, it wouldn't surprise me if they had the budget of an average GameCube title. And of course, there's indie games that are made on Shoestring budgets, and those are HD.

Honestly, it's less about HD development, and more about increased audience expectations for AAA franchises on new hardware. New IPs and indie games can get away with modest costs because there's no expectations for them. But with a long-running AAA franchise or big open world epic? Yeah, those are expensive and time consuming as shit to make.



Read through the thread, got a little heated for a second lol. But agree with the consensus, games across all platforms just take much more time and resources.



Jumpin said:

For Nintendo, certainly. The Switch had a very top heavy launch, while Nintendo seemed to push harder through years 2-3 on Wii.

But, and it's a fairly big BUT, third party support on Switch is unparalleled in Nintendo's history for the first 2.5 years; the Wii is the next best, and that's a very distant second. Even the much loved SNES took about 3 years to really take off in the third party department; outside of Secret of Mana, Super Castlevania, and Street Fighter 2, nearly all of the classic SNES third party games are from 1994, 95, and 96. The DS ALSO took a few years to really take off in the third party software department.

The Super Nintendo is the only Nintendo console I can recall having strong third party support right from the beginning.  Here are some of the third party games from the first 12 months in North America:

Sim City
Super R-Type
Populous
ActRaiser
Final Fight
Final Fantasy 2 (4)
Super Ghouls and Ghosts
Super Castlevania 4
Ys 3
Super Smash TV
Contra 3
Street Fighter 2
TMNT 4: Turtles in Time

That is an extremely solid list of third party games.  Any system (Nintendo or otherwise) would be proud to have that good of a list of third party games during its first 12 months.  That is on top of really strong first party games like Super Mario World and Link to the Past.  The first 12 months of the SNES were amazing.  It was all of those later years where it looked like the Genesis might a competitive list of games, that is where the SNES got into trouble.



sethnintendo said:
Chrkeller said:

It is very stupid.  The number of system(s) is irrelevant.  Breath of the Wild requires more development time than all Zelda DS games combined.  It isn't rocket science.

And you are acting as though other companies are kicking out top shelf games regularly, which is just a lie.  How long did we wait for RDR2?  As another example, what has Guerrilla Games released since Horizon?    

And buy Capcom?  Capcom all but blows.  How many quality games does Capcom release a year?  Go ahead and name their top shelf 2019 releases. 

Do some basic math son.  Link Between Worlds was 700 mb..  Breath of the Wild was 13.4 gb....  you are comparing two different scopes.  BotW is 19 times bigger than Link Between Worlds.  Can you make a 5 course meal as fast as I can cut up an apple?  I'm guessing no.  

What the fuck you talking about?  Botw is a Wii u game ported to switch.

This isn't true. The Switch version isn't some port of a Wii U game. Breath of the Wild was developed for Switch and Wii U and both versions released on the same day.

You can read an overview of the development here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Breath_of_the_Wild#Development

Last edited by Jumpin - on 06 October 2019

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Chrkeller said:
The higher the fidelity the longer the development times. The DS wasn't HD nor did it support digital surround sound. Comparing development times to the Switch is stupid.

I came here to say this ^



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