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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Control drops to 10fps on base consoles (DF)

Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

As I just mentioned it may not be a simple GPU bottleneck issue.

Also, outdated hardware can't be the issue if you actually build a game for that hardware. I mean consoles seem to be lead, so they must have noticed limitations at some point...

Its likely just bad optimization that will be improved with patches.

Consoles aren't the lead platform, the PC was. - It has Ray Tracing.

The engine has multiple bottlenecks depending on scene, for consoles the CPU becomes a limiting factor rather rapidly thanks to the anemic performance of Jaguar.

JRPGfan said:

Time to get a new engine.... and learn how to optimise games Remedy!

QB had horrible performance issues at launch too.
Now the same thing is happending for Control? thats not acceptable.

The engine is actually rather good, just some of the options they are enforcing just isn't doing it justice... Like frame reconstruction with it's overhead when certain platforms have different forms of frame reconstruction which is hardware accelerated that is being unused.

More often than not, engines aren't entirely scrapped... It's a waste of time and money to do so, but re-engineered, overhauled and repurposed.

For example... Fallout 76 uses the creation engine which is derived from Gamebryo which in turn is derived from Net Immerse that came out in 1999.
The Call of Duty Engine has roots dating back to Quake 3 from 1999 and so does Valves Source Engine.
Battlefield V uses a derivative of Frostbite which stems from Bad Company in 2008...
Unreal Engine 4.0 still has some roots with Unreal Engine 1.0...

And the list goes on.

In short, you don't reinvent the wheel if you don't have to.

Mr Puggsly said:

Well its not usual for games to improve performance post launch.

Indeed. Doom 2016  and Wolfenstein on Switch is a good example.

Mr Puggsly said:

Its also worth noting the game mostly sticks to 30 fps on X1X. That tells me they did optimize for a console, the most powerful one.

Or it's not optimized for the Xbox One X and the Xbox One X simply has the required baseline hardware required to run it semi-adequately.

Either way... Wait for the patches.

I think the ray tracing aspect was built for PC, but not the game entirely. Other games built with consoles in mind also have ray tracing, some get it unofficially patched in.

X1X has the same CPU and its not significantly faster. Yet that version does a much better job targeting 30 fps.

I don't think the engine is bad per se, QB did run at a solid 30 fps but that came with compromises.

Given people are waiting for patches to fix the performance, where is the performance problem coming from? Is the game in general just too demanding for the hardware or was it rushed?

I sense you're trying to use this as an example of console specs being too limited. I just see it as poorly optimized game if we feel patches can improve it. They didn't have MS money for this project so that might have meant less time to optimize.



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Mr Puggsly said:

I think the ray tracing aspect was built for PC, but not the game entirely. Other games built with consoles in mind also have ray tracing, some get it unofficially patched in.

There is Ray Tracing... And then there is Ray Tracing.
Control's implementation of Ray Tracing is a step forward of what we have seen prior, but even ignoring that, it's pushing some interesting technologies/effects that tend to be PC-only.
PC was certainly the lead platform, it's where it looks best, plays best.

Mr Puggsly said:

X1X has the same CPU and its not significantly faster. Yet that version does a much better job targeting 30 fps.

The Xbox One X's CPU is significantly faster over the base consoles.
It has 43% more clockspeed than the base Playstation 4, 31% over the base Xbox One.

And then you have the programmable command processor which offloads some tasks typically done on the CPU, onto the GPU. - That isn't insignificant.

Those improvements don't just exist in a vacuum... And is probably one of the primary reasons why the Xbox One X version of the game is the definitive console version, the CPU.

Mr Puggsly said:

I don't think the engine is bad per se, QB did run at a solid 30 fps but that came with compromises.

Yeah, it's not an engine that is designed for 60fps, wide-open vista's like Frostbite, but for heavy scripting/storytelling and amazing effects. - For that, it actually does the job extremely well.

Mr Puggsly said:

Given people are waiting for patches to fix the performance, where is the performance problem coming from? Is the game in general just too demanding for the hardware or was it rushed?

Bit of both probably.

Mr Puggsly said:

I sense you're trying to use this as an example of console specs being too limited. I just see it as poorly optimized game if we feel patches can improve it. They didn't have MS money for this project so that might have meant less time to optimize.

If the hardware was more capable, the Xbox One, Playstation 4, Playstation 4 Pro and Xbox One X wouldn't be struggling. - Optimization plays a role, but so does hardware at the end of the day.

And then you have your money argument... - They had oodles of Money from Microsoft with Quantumn Break, that title still had a few issues, most got patched out, some still exist.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I think the ray tracing aspect was built for PC, but not the game entirely. Other games built with consoles in mind also have ray tracing, some get it unofficially patched in.

There is Ray Tracing... And then there is Ray Tracing.
Control's implementation of Ray Tracing is a step forward of what we have seen prior, but even ignoring that, it's pushing some interesting technologies/effects that tend to be PC-only.
PC was certainly the lead platform, it's where it looks best, plays best.

Mr Puggsly said:

X1X has the same CPU and its not significantly faster. Yet that version does a much better job targeting 30 fps.

The Xbox One X's CPU is significantly faster over the base consoles.
It has 43% more clockspeed than the base Playstation 4, 31% over the base Xbox One.

And then you have the programmable command processor which offloads some tasks typically done on the CPU, onto the GPU. - That isn't insignificant.

Those improvements don't just exist in a vacuum... And is probably one of the primary reasons why the Xbox One X version of the game is the definitive console version, the CPU.

Mr Puggsly said:

I don't think the engine is bad per se, QB did run at a solid 30 fps but that came with compromises.

Yeah, it's not an engine that is designed for 60fps, wide-open vista's like Frostbite, but for heavy scripting/storytelling and amazing effects. - For that, it actually does the job extremely well.

Mr Puggsly said:

Given people are waiting for patches to fix the performance, where is the performance problem coming from? Is the game in general just too demanding for the hardware or was it rushed?

Bit of both probably.

Mr Puggsly said:

I sense you're trying to use this as an example of console specs being too limited. I just see it as poorly optimized game if we feel patches can improve it. They didn't have MS money for this project so that might have meant less time to optimize.

If the hardware was more capable, the Xbox One, Playstation 4, Playstation 4 Pro and Xbox One X wouldn't be struggling. - Optimization plays a role, but so does hardware at the end of the day.

And then you have your money argument... - They had oodles of Money from Microsoft with Quantumn Break, that title still had a few issues, most got patched out, some still exist.

The engine itself was built to function on 8th gen hardware. The performance on X1 seems unusally exceptional. So again, I blame optimzation.

Nobody is suggesting the game should be perfect on base hardware. Bugs and frame dips exist in many big budget games. However, Control doesent appear impressive enough to justify that bad performance during action. So I suspect it was rushed and needs work.



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Mr Puggsly said:

The engine itself was built to function on 8th gen hardware. The performance on X1 seems unusally exceptional. So again, I blame optimzation.

Nobody is suggesting the game should be perfect on base hardware. Bugs and frame dips exist in many big budget games. However, Control doesent appear impressive enough to justify that bad performance during action. So I suspect it was rushed and needs work.

The performance on the base Xbox One is far from perfect though...



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

The engine itself was built to function on 8th gen hardware. The performance on X1 seems unusally exceptional. So again, I blame optimzation.

Nobody is suggesting the game should be perfect on base hardware. Bugs and frame dips exist in many big budget games. However, Control doesent appear impressive enough to justify that bad performance during action. So I suspect it was rushed and needs work.

The performance on the base Xbox One is far from perfect though...

Yeah, its dog shit. I meant X1X.



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Mr Puggsly said:
Pemalite said:

The performance on the base Xbox One is far from perfect though...

Yeah, its dog shit. I meant X1X.

It's not perfect on the Xbox One X either.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Yeah, its dog shit. I meant X1X.

It's not perfect on the Xbox One X either.

No its not.

Frankly, people just want less awful. Impressive visuals but the frame rate needs work.



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Maybe they shoulda just held onto this one and released it next November as a PS5/Scarlet launch title.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:

Maybe they shoulda just held onto this one and released it next November as a PS5/Scarlet launch title.

It really should have, as well as waiting until RT has reached a more mature state, so newer cards would be able to manage the tech properly. Right now, as it stands, I still don't see myself going for a new card until the next series of GPU's or maybe even the ones after that, because those prices are high, for what amounts to some minimal differences, but also asking for a lot of performance in return, which to me isn't even remotely worth dropping the resolution, let alone framerates back to 30/40 fps. 

It would have also been better for them to drop that reconstruction technique as well, since that produced problems with their previous game, and it seems to be causing issues on all platforms. 



curl-6 said:

Maybe they shoulda just held onto this one and released it next November as a PS5/Scarlet launch title.

This stinks to me of something they considered and then though... they'll do that but it will be the "Control Remastered edition, complete with Season pass and a playable framerate" PS4/X1 launch window was mostly filled with X360/ps3 titles that were touched up or running as they were intended, the crazy thing is going to PC hardware in the consoles next generation it will mean those remasters are pretty much just the PC version with some UI changes and a preset selection of graphics options depending on the machine, will be near 0 effort ports.



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