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Forums - Politics Discussion - House minority leader trying to blame video games for mass shootings. Update: Walmart pulls violent video game ads for 2 weeks




Azzanation said:

Also we cannot compare countries with 40m people to a country with 400m. Its alot easier to control crime with a lower number of citizens and in this case, Australia or Canada make up 1 entire US city. Thats how big the USA is to those countries. Also Canada and Australia have a better educational system or at least invest more into it than the States.

False. You can extrapolate data mathematically to make a comparison of countries with 40~ million people to a country with 400~ million people accurately... Which is partly why terms like "Per Capita" actually exist.

I just had to quote, that did make me chuckle a small bit, the logic of "you can't work out the difference that happens when you multiply a figure by 10" I mean... I think it's one of the easiest math asks in this whole thread, you skip the decimal point one right or one left if you want to see how the number would match up in the other region. It's not like you have one cop frantically trying to oversee 400m people.

--HARD MATH WARNING --

Numbers for thought from Quora in relation to Cops.

"Approximately 850,000 local, county and state officers. Add in about another 80,000 federal officers of some agency, including the FBI. With civilian support personnel, the number is over 1.1 million."

In the USA with a population of 327.2m (not 400m)

As per google result with the European Union (not the continent of Europe)

1.6 million police officers

For a population of 513.5m people

Meaning in the States you get 1 cop per 297.45 people

And in Europe you get 1 cop per 320.93 people

So each US cop has around 23 less people to watch over.

But hey! For those numbers to work you would have to concede to math being a thing that exists!

Also on the topic of this there was a rather good Jim Sterling video, he mostly goes into how this should always have been a news story which was ignored and not argued about as the basis of it was so flawed and dis-proven years ago as to not be worthy of the media attention and online attention that it sadly got.

It could be worth a watch if interested. Jim can be rather hit or miss at times.



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Conina said:

Why? The USA also has a much bigger police force.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_number_of_police_officers

Australia has 202 police officers each 100,000 people. Canada has 188 police officers each 100,000 people. The USA has 284 police officers each 100,000 people.

Pemalite said:
Azzanation said:
Might as well ban Cars, they also cause a mass amount of deaths per year.
How about fix the solution by educating rather than taking something away via the blame game.

Gun Control doesn't mean the banning of guns.

Your argument is a bit of a fallacy anyway... It's like saying unless we can stop all drug use, we shouldn't have any drug-related laws.

Azzanation said:

Death is death, doesnt matter what form a killer uses to kill someone. Take the guns away, they will hijack a Bus and ram it into a shopping centre and kill even more people.

Doesn't happen.

Azzanation said:

The real issue is having mental people who want to kill on there mind walk the streets. This has been a human issue since the beginning of man not just since we created guns. 

And yet in the US... Those same individuals can walk around carrying a gun. - Do you know what Gun Control even does? It prevents those individuals from easily accruing such weapons.

Azzanation said:

End of the day, take guns away from killers, they will find other means to kill. Its what they want to do, its not something they wake up in the morning asking themselves.. "hmm i have guns, lets go kill people" or "hmm i have no guns i cannot kill people" thinking. Its quite simply a disorder that needs to be addressed and monitored.



Azzanation said:

Also we cannot compare countries with 40m people to a country with 400m. Its alot easier to control crime with a lower number of citizens and in this case, Australia or Canada make up 1 entire US city. Thats how big the USA is to those countries. Also Canada and Australia have a better educational system or at least invest more into it than the States.

False. You can extrapolate data mathematically to make a comparison of countries with 40~ million people to a country with 400~ million people accurately... Which is partly why terms like "Per Capita" actually exist.

To both of you - What does having a bigger police force got to do with what's happening here? The police force can only control the basics of crime and sort out aftermaths of situations etc. Having more doesn't change the fact that a country with 400m people will have more idiots, more mental and demented people, more crazies.. put it simpler, more bad guys. Yes Cops will help in some ways but its not going to solve everything which is why these things still happen as you just proven to yourselves that the US has a decent size police force. 

The issue with the US stems a lot deeper than placing Stricker laws on owning guns. We have rules in place on getting a car licences and the road toll is still one of the highest death casualties in the world. So yes the car argument makes just as much sense. If we want to ban guns because of these killings, than might as well ban cars. That's how stupid it is to blame items and not the individuals. 

The US has a massive black market issue, it also has a education issue and a massive underground issue, and if you guys think that by adding more laws on guns is going to stop these shootings than I am only going to disagree. Because these killers can easily get high powered weaponry off the black market so these shootings will only still take place just instead, no one else can have a gun to defend themselves for when it happens.

Humans need to stop blaming things on other things and instead find the real issues behind them. Guns and Video games are not why these shootings happen. Evil people will be evil people regardless if they have guns or not.



Azzanation said:
Conina said:

Why? The USA also has a much bigger police force.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_number_of_police_officers

Australia has 202 police officers each 100,000 people. Canada has 188 police officers each 100,000 people. The USA has 284 police officers each 100,000 people.

Pemalite said:

Gun Control doesn't mean the banning of guns.

Your argument is a bit of a fallacy anyway... It's like saying unless we can stop all drug use, we shouldn't have any drug-related laws.

Doesn't happen.

And yet in the US... Those same individuals can walk around carrying a gun. - Do you know what Gun Control even does? It prevents those individuals from easily accruing such weapons.



False. You can extrapolate data mathematically to make a comparison of countries with 40~ million people to a country with 400~ million people accurately... Which is partly why terms like "Per Capita" actually exist.

To both of you - What does having a bigger police force got to do with what's happening here? The police force can only control the basics of crime and sort out aftermaths of situations etc. Having more doesn't change the fact that a country with 400m people will have more idiots, more mental and demented people, more crazies.. put it simpler, more bad guys. Yes Cops will help in some ways but its not going to solve everything which is why these things still happen as you just proven to yourselves that the US has a decent size police force. 

The issue with the US stems a lot deeper than placing Stricker laws on owning guns. We have rules in place on getting a car licences and the road toll is still one of the highest death casualties in the world. So yes the car argument makes just as much sense. If we want to ban guns because of these killings, than might as well ban cars. That's how stupid it is to blame items and not the individuals. 

The US has a massive black market issue, it also has a education issue and a massive underground issue, and if you guys think that by adding more laws on guns is going to stop these shootings than I am only going to disagree. Because these killers can easily get high powered weaponry off the black market so these shootings will only still take place just instead, no one else can have a gun to defend themselves for when it happens.

Humans need to stop blaming things on other things and instead find the real issues behind them. Guns and Video games are not why these shootings happen. Evil people will be evil people regardless if they have guns or not.

Just to drop most of my post and clarify

USA doesn't have 400m people in it, it's 320m

EU has more people @513m

Less cops in the EU per person

Less shootings in the EU per person

More people doesn't mean more shootings in the EU, Less cops per person doesn't lead to more shootings in the EU.

As for " Guns and Video games are not why these shootings happen." in a literal sense, this sentence is literally 50% perfectly correct, and 50% incorrect. Taking away a game doesn't alter the sentence, taking away the gun does, simple as that.



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Ganoncrotch said:

Just to drop most of my post and clarify

USA doesn't have 400m people in it, it's 320m

EU has more people @513m

Less cops in the EU per person

Less shootings in the EU per person

More people doesn't mean more shootings in the EU, Less cops per person doesn't lead to more shootings in the EU.

As for " Guns and Video games are not why these shootings happen." in a literal sense, this sentence is literally 50% perfectly correct, and 50% incorrect. Taking away a game doesn't alter the sentence, taking away the gun does, simple as that.

320m, 400m or 500m, doesn't make a difference in the point.

This is where people are blinded by forceful decisions because people only want to push the blame on something. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

You can try to take Guns away from people.. guess what, you will be only taking guns away from good people, the bad guys will still have guns. That will be the outcome because Guns are not the issue, its deeper than guns.



Azzanation said:

This is where people are blinded by forceful decisions because people only want to push the blame on something. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Drugs don't kill people, people taking drugs kills people.
Ergo drugs should be legalized and readily available in brick and mortar stores right?

Azzanation said:

You can try to take Guns away from people.. guess what, you will be only taking guns away from good people, the bad guys will still have guns. That will be the outcome because Guns are not the issue, its deeper than guns.

You can try to take Drugs away from people.. guess what, you will be only taking Drugs away from good people, the bad guys will still have Drugs. That will be the outcome because Drugs are not the issue, its deeper than Drugs.

Exact same argument.

I do have to ask though legitimately after poking holes through your highly flawed logic, why are you ignoring how successful other countries have been in enacting gun control? It's saved countless lives. Are lives not highly valued where you come from?

Ganoncrotch said:

False. You can extrapolate data mathematically to make a comparison of countries with 40~ million people to a country with 400~ million people accurately... Which is partly why terms like "Per Capita" actually exist.

I just had to quote, that did make me chuckle a small bit, the logic of "you can't work out the difference that happens when you multiply a figure by 10" I mean... I think it's one of the easiest math asks in this whole thread, you skip the decimal point one right or one left if you want to see how the number would match up in the other region. It's not like you have one cop frantically trying to oversee 400m people.

Which is why I generally face palm when people use population differences to try to assert something as non comparable.

Azzanation said:

To both of you - What does having a bigger police force got to do with what's happening here? The police force can only control the basics of crime and sort out aftermaths of situations etc. Having more doesn't change the fact that a country with 400m people will have more idiots, more mental and demented people, more crazies.. put it simpler, more bad guys. Yes Cops will help in some ways but its not going to solve everything which is why these things still happen as you just proven to yourselves that the US has a decent size police force. 

I never mentioned anything about Police? But considering I work in multiple emergency services agencies and thus work intimately with Police... Is this a topic you feel confident in having?

In essence, the fact you have more police, but still high massacre rates just proves that Guns are the fundamental issue, not law enforcement or the resources relating to such.

Azzanation said:

The issue with the US stems a lot deeper than placing Stricker laws on owning guns. We have rules in place on getting a car licences and the road toll is still one of the highest death casualties in the world. So yes the car argument makes just as much sense. If we want to ban guns because of these killings, than might as well ban cars. That's how stupid it is to blame items and not the individuals. 

Instead of spending decades on what those "deeper issues are". - Remove guns from the equation, save lives and return to the issue once you have sorted your societal issues out, guns will still exist by that time. - Or are you worried that by removing guns from the equation, having less massacres, saving lives that people might not wish to revert such legislation?

You do realize you don't loose access to guns? Right? Right? You literally loose nothing... But potentially gain a shit ton. Like lives... And being a first responder, saving lives is a priority in my daily life... So why isn't it yours?

Azzanation said:

Humans need to stop blaming things on other things and instead find the real issues behind them. Guns and Video games are not why these shootings happen. Evil people will be evil people regardless if they have guns or not.

The same arguments you have presented could also be leveraged for the legalization and sale of Meth in brick and mortar stores, if you cannot see how such rhetoric is ultimately flawed... And if you are willing to ignore the substantial evidence that many developed nations have in regards to the success of gun control... I am not sure you could be convinced of anything at this point... And thus perhaps this entire discussion is moot?








Last edited by Pemalite - on 09 August 2019

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I'm going to reitterate my offer - I have a guest bedroom available just outside of Washington, DC.  There are a lot of people in this thread that seem to need some first hand exposure to the USA.  You're all invited to make use of my guest bedroom.  Then, we can go out and dodge bullets as we see the sights.  It's basically like a real-life video game here.  



VAMatt said:

I'm going to reitterate my offer - I have a guest bedroom available just outside of Washington, DC.  There are a lot of people in this thread that seem to need some first hand exposure to the USA.  You're all invited to make use of my guest bedroom.  Then, we can go out and dodge bullets as we see the sights.  It's basically like a real-life video game here.  

What you are proposing would only be anecdotal at best and thus can generally be discarded unless you are getting into more micro localized issues.

Statistics which have already been provided in this thread multiple times is far more empirical and gives a wider view of the issue at large country-wide, if you are suggesting there isn't a gun culture or significant gun massacre rates in parts of the USA... Well. How do you explain the large numbers of people killed? Meaningless statistics?



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

I know I should feel dissapointed but all I could was laughing...

Walmart to remove signs showing violence, including video games. But it'll still sell guns.






konnichiwa said:

I know I should feel dissapointed but all I could was laughing...

Walmart to remove signs showing violence, including video games. But it'll still sell guns.

Yes, I saw that too. Absolutely hilarious! That's next level facepalm quality.



GoOnKid said:
konnichiwa said:

I know I should feel dissapointed but all I could was laughing...

Walmart to remove signs showing violence, including video games. But it'll still sell guns.

Yes, I saw that too. Absolutely hilarious! That's next level facepalm quality.

Just wait till the mass shootings rate drops the next months; politicians will force us with the idea 'told you, after reducing the exposure of violent video games, the mass shooting rate dropped'