Forums - Movies Discussion - The "Original Story" - The Kimba VS Simba Controversy, Disney The Lying King

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How do you feel with these

I feel betrayed 1 3.23%
 
My Childhood is a lie 1 3.23%
 
Disney is worst and Evil 7 22.58%
 
Murica 0 0.00%
 
I don't care i support plagiarisme 3 9.68%
 
LOL you are late to the party 19 61.29%
 
Total:31
Replicant said:

1: What makes you think that Disney would ever allow them to say bold?

Disney doesn't have a hold of any of these men.  Everyone you mentioned is in their 60s and 70s and retired.

"The Lion King director Roger Allers had previously lived in Tokyo and worked in animation there during the 1980s, when Tezuka had already become known as "Japan's Walt Disney" and a remake of Kimba was airing on prime time television. Animators Tom Sito and Mark Kausler, who both have story credits, have admitted to watching Kimba, and assumed many of their colleagues had too, especially if they grew up in the 1960s. Fred Ladd, who was involved early on with importing Kimba and other Japanese anime into America for NBC, stated there was at least one animator remembered by his colleagues as being an avid Kimba fan and being quite vociferous about Disney's conduct during production." (link)

I'm aware of the Wiki page.  But did you happen to read the article that was the source that paragraph of the Wiki is based on?  Here it is.

The article itself paints a completely separate portrait.  Furthermore, everyone in that article says exactly what I've been saying all along: The Lion King is based on Bambi.  Some like Sito and Kausler have no problem saying that they were aware of the Kimba.  But here are full quotes from them on the subject.

Kausler:
he had watched “Kimba” as a kid, but during the production process the animators were focused on creating a story that was more like “Bambi” set in Africa without the “animals versus man” theme:

"Nobody ever mentioned “Kimba,” and if any of us who knew of it thought about it, I guess we figured that since “Kimba” was always about the animals trying to get the humans to accept them as equals, the absence of humans in “The Lion King” made it obviously a different plot."

Sito:
“Honestly, I think it’s seriously coincidence,” the animator said. “You know I’m not a spokesman for Disney, but I was there during all the story development and nobody consciously thought [about] that. I think when you do the kind of things that lions do, the grasslands and the kind of environment they’re in, and the type of props they would work with, trees and rocks and the other animals, I think some similarities are inevitable.” (For those wondering, Simba is reportedly the Swahili word for lion, which would explain the name similarities.)

So, are these guys just lying for no reason?  I'm sure The Huffington Post would love to write an article nailing Disney to the wall for appropriating a foreigner's work.  But the conclusion of the source of your source was exactly the opposite, and backs what I've been saying all along.

2: That come off as disingenious. What the Japanese animators hope to see is simply Disney acknowledging due credit to Osamu Tezuka who died the same year that Disney started to make The Lion King.

I'm not sure what's disingenuous.  I said that Disney could have easily done that up front and it would have cost them nothing and probably gained them goodwill.  All it would have taken was someone in the dozens of "making of" bits to mention that they took some inspiration from him.  Who doesn't enjoy seeing a legend honored?

Above all.  I can only keep saying this:  Watch the show, not an edited YouTube video.  It's just not the same.

Last edited by NightlyPoe - on 19 July 2019

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Going to break my own rule and post a video.  It does more to debunk this ridiculous urban myth than I could by words.  As I've said, all you have to do is actually watch Kimba to realize that they are not the same at all.  Well, we finally have a YouTuber that's done exactly that and, surprise, surprise, a few selectively edited videos don't hold up to scrutiny in the slightest.



NightlyPoe said:



Going to break my own rule and post a video.  It does more to debunk this ridiculous urban myth than I could by words.  As I've said, all you have to do is actually watch Kimba to realize that they are not the same at all.  Well, we finally have a YouTuber that's done exactly that and, surprise, surprise, a few selectively edited videos don't hold up to scrutiny in the slightest.

Masochistic warthog, grave robbing, promoting white supremacy... Forget plagiarism, Kimba is filled with some seriously messed up shit! And I'm only 13mins in.



NightlyPoe said:



Going to break my own rule and post a video.  It does more to debunk this ridiculous urban myth than I could by words.  As I've said, all you have to do is actually watch Kimba to realize that they are not the same at all.  Well, we finally have a YouTuber that's done exactly that and, surprise, surprise, a few selectively edited videos don't hold up to scrutiny in the slightest.

I never really looked too hard into this controversy, but I was definitely someone who believed it from hearing the murmurings or watching some cheap two minute youtube mashup. I watched this video yesterday and the whole thing I'd say was a pretty fascinating look into not just the controversy, but it also hints at some interesting stuff in our own psychology which lead us to believe these things without having the information necessary to make such a judgement.

I feel a bit weird now using this as my conclusive opinion as I still have not watched Kimba, but I have to say that I'm convinced that The Lion King was not a Kimba ripoff.



The same or not, I just don't like the Lion King.
I find it, and the Disney Renaissance in general to be somewhat weak.

Except for this



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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The Lion King is overrated. There I said it and will continue to say it.

The Iron Giant is x100000000000000000 better.



To claim Kimba or japanese animation as cheap is very low from someone that claim to study animation.
Plus claiming that because Kimba have hundread episodes no one would watch it to rip off sequences is also pretty much lol.

I love Takehiko Inoue and could claim no one would watch thousand hours of NBA games to stop in some scenes or read thousand of newspapers to cut some photographs to copy. Still there are allegations (with good proof) that he used some key 90 players as base for his stars (like Sakuragi based on Rodman) and several panels on the manga were draw almost equal to the photos. There are many counter claims to say he didn't use that as source.

But the thing is several times people end up plagiarizing without even not noticing themselves because it became ingrained in their memory. And other parts is taking several small cuts as reference. You don't want to call it rip-off your right, but don't just try to hammer it down as non-sense.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

If you believe this, the best thing to do would be to actually watch some of Kimba.  It's so overwhelmingly different that at best you could argue that Lion King took a few isolated shots from it.  If you had 100 different teams all tasked explicitly with making a movie based on Kimba but changed enough to avoid a lawsuit, I doubt any of them would come up with something similar to Lion King.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 28 May 2020

JWeinCom said:

If you believe this, the best thing to do would be to actually watch some of Kimba.  It's so overwhelmingly different that at best you could argue that Lion King took a few isolated shots from it.  If you had 100 different teams all tasked explicitly with making a movie based on Kimba but changed enough to avoid a lawsuit, I doubt any of them would come up with something similar to Lion King.

Your same argument could be said to Slam Dunk and several others copyright claim infringment and would still not invalidate that one series used the other as basis or ripped it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
To claim Kimba or japanese animation as cheap is very low from someone that claim to study animation.

Don't deflect.  Kimba's animation in the 1960s was very limited and obviously had a low budget.  And Japanese animators were still many years away from developing the modern anime techniques to overcome those constraints.

But the thing is several times people end up plagiarizing without even not noticing themselves because it became ingrained in their memory. And other parts is taking several small cuts as reference. You don't want to call it rip-off your right, but don't just try to hammer it down as non-sense.

Both myself and the video acknowledged the possibility of a few visuals being shared, though there's no actual evidence of it.  However, the notion that it is a rip-off does need to be hammered down because, in the end, it's just an internet myth that doesn't even make sense to anyone who has watched a few episodes of the series.