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Forums - Sales Discussion - Switch overtakes total PS4 sales in Japan, in less than half the time

kirby007 on 02 June 2019
Shiken said:
linkink said:

earn sympathy over what? this forum is a waste of time, honestly it's not good for me. i kinda have to thank you for getting me banned last time, and this time as well. i'm wasting time here talking about video games sales, when i haven't played a game in months.

If you are talking about my posts in thread, you are gonna change what i think. there many sales  experts on resetera that think the same, when switch was selling it was universal that everybody thought was see what happens when nintendo makes appealing hardware. 

Well seeing how this is a sales forum, and based on your  tendency  to predict on bias alone, yeah I would say this forum is not a good fit for you.  Also if you like arguing as you say, it helps to actually have a good argument.  Anyway, see you next time you come to "admit you are wrong" when the Switch passes 100 mil.

250 mil ez



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curl-6 on 03 June 2019

Welp, that explains a lot.

At any rate, PS4 down, next up PS3, which the Switch will probably pass by the end of the year with the help of heavy hitters like Mario Maker 2, Dragon Quest 11, Pokemon Sword/Shield, and Animal Crossing.



Bofferbrauer2 on 03 June 2019
linkink said:
RolStoppable said:

Yes, there was no saving the Wii U. Part of why is that its software pipeline was broken right out of the gate and the droughts started immediately after launch. Software sells hardware, so if there's no new software for an extended period of time, the hardware won't sell. That's why Wii U sales were so bad so quickly. Conversely, there were bumps to hardware sales when new software got released.

Yes, Japan prefers handheld consoles because they are more convenient and the only advantage that a home console can provide nowadays are better graphics which hardly anyone cares about. Still, if home console or handheld console was the only thing that mattered, the Vita should have sold better than the PS4. Since that didn't happen, the logical conclusion is that games are more important than the console itself. But since you keep being in denial that games matter, we get posts from you where you claim that the software droughts of the Wii U did no harm to its sales.

It's pretty easy to explain why the Nintendo 64 as well as the Xbox One sold respectable numbers in the USA, but not elsewhere. The rate of multiconsole ownership is historically much, much higher in the USA than anywhere else in the world, so international struggles of a console don't translate to the US-American market in the same way. The costs of electronics as well as disposable income allows US-Americans to buy more consoles as well as games than people of other countries. Indeed, it's not only that the average gamer in the USA buys more consoles, but also more games per console. The USA leads the world in tie ratios by a comfortable margin. An additional reason for the relative success of the Nintendo 64 and the Xbox One in the USA is software that appeals to the market. The Nintendo 64 heavily dominated the FPS genre in its generation, the Xbox brand in general has the image of the American console because of its software library.

It would make more sense to say that Nintendo reacted to Sony's decision to only support one console going forward. Sony announced in mid-2013 that all of their American and European studios were going to make PS4 games, so Sony's exit from the handheld market was already a done deal at that point. If Nintendo hadn't combined their home console and handheld efforts, they would have been the only console manufacturer to support two separate consoles simultaneously which is an obvious competitive disadvantage.

You do realize sometimes software, cannot sale hardware, dreamcast, Xboxone in europe and wiiu are proof of that. like you that was part of the problem, only part of the problem, even you admit that at least were getting some where.

again nobody said  being a handheld is the only that mattered, but it will sell significantly more then a stationary home console givin the same software a portable will probably sell double what a home console would. PS4 has sold 10 times the software vita has in japan.

Your explanation doesn't explain why playstation consoles sell much better in Europe the USA, so it's void. Europe and USA, really have similar preferences when it comes to games, except that fifa is much bigger in Europe. 

Very bad examples:

Dreamcast: Sega couldn't produce fast enough and cheap enough, and were banking on the software sales to make money. That didn't work out, and Sega had to pull the plug to survive, as the better the Dreamcast sold, the more money Sega lost. Had Sega not been in such a dire position financially, the Dreamcast would have sold better than the Gamecube and OG Xbox.

XBO in Europe: Europe was for a long time a region of PC players, and many still do in parallel to a Sony or Nintendo console. This makes an Xbox however very redundant, since it's games also come out on PC, which most people have.

Wii U: Wii U software couldn't sell hardware because it didn't have software to sell the hardware. Rol asked for the games released in January and February after launch, I checked: a whole 4 games in the US, and even just 3 in Japan - and only one of them not being an Indie title. Without games, there's no reason to buy a console.

As for why Playstation sells better in Europe, it's because they took over Segas players from that region plus all the new ones in the 1998-2004 period of rapid growth since all it's competitors fizzled out for one reason or another, meaning Playstation was their entrance into console gaming. Which meant that by the start of the 7th Gen, Sony had the European console market cornered and by the balls - and then lost their quasi-monopoly with a disastrous launch. But since they owned so much of the market, the loss still wasn't strong enough to kick them from the throne.



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DarthMetalliCube on 03 June 2019

Sony seems to be becoming far more Western-oriented with their games, and Nintendo is focusing on portability with the Switch, which the Japense tend to value. So, not too surprising, but still somewhat impressive considering the depths Nintendo had sunk to there during the Gamecube era compared to PS2 less than 2 decades ago.



 

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TheBraveGallade on 03 June 2019

N64? The only Japan appealing game for that system is paper Mario really. The planned FE: PoR and mother 3 WOULD have helped. A lot. But both were pushed. The Saturn was actually the main competitor to the ps1 in Japan. Saturn sold well there with it's much better 2d graphics engine than anything else.
By the time the ps2/GC/DC rolled around... The GBA was absolutely kicking ALL KINDS of ass with its RPG lineup. Ps2 still sold VERY well for the same genre but every other home console was almost irrelevent via GBA.

Then the psp/day rolled round and literally EVERYONE made RPGs for either of them, or both (looks at KH and disgaea 1). Plus by this point console games became way to expensive to make for B tier devs.

Seriously though... WWHD as a system seller example in Japan??!! Zelda was NEVER a system seller after LTTP in Japan untill BotW rolled around and gave Japan thier open world fix.



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OTBWY on 03 June 2019

I missed the QuickRick alt? Goddamnit.

Anyway, I don't think we shall see another Vita. It makes me wonder though, if the PS5 isn't as successful in Japan. How will that affect it's 3rd party support. I wonder how much of their relations are based on loyalty or just making profit.



0D0 on 03 June 2019
Naum said:
Why does it bother some people so much that Nintendo has a succssesful console...

I doesn't. It's still fun to discuss the reasons behind it.

linkink said:
RolStoppable said:

Nobody is underselling the hardware here. It's only perceived that way by you because you are greatly underselling the software. Switch is better hardware than the PS4 and it has better software than the PS4, hence why it sold so much faster than the PS4. The counter-arguments presented to that all aim for Switch is only better hardware than the PS4, although even that might not be conceded when it's put that way. That's the impression I get from your posts, because you keep talking about traditional consoles, as in, the way Switch is doesn't make its success legitimate in comparison to PlayStation.

Nobody here has said that it's all about the software, so that use such a straw man argument is a sign of desperation in this ongoing discussion. At the end of the day, people buy consoles to play video games - that's especially true for Nintendo consoles, because they only play games. Since that is how consoles are used, software is more important than hardware.

Handhelds have only sold better in Japan since the DS and PSP, before that home consoles sold more every time. That shift goes hand in hand with handhelds outclassing home consoles in quantity of worthwhile games.

The reason why the Vita's sales are so lopsided in Japan's favor is that third party support in Japan was actually decent for several years while American and European publishers called it quits after a couple of years. There was a higher number of interesting games to buy for Japanese gamers than for American and European gamers, so hardware sales followed accordingly.

You're really jumping off the deep end here. Of course switch is a  legitimate success, but it's not a traditional home console, or stationary console if that makes you feel better. Anyway Wii U first year line up was damn solid, it had tons of third-party support and 2D Mario which was up there with Nintendo biggest franchise at the time, i wonder what did WIIU sell it's first year in japan, oh yea it sold like crap. Anyway i know i'm not convincing you, and you are not convincing me. you will always have some straw man excuse, well those games didn't come out as fast as  they did on switch, of course they didn't switch is getting old ports of wiiu games, and it's doing wonders on switch. While those on games on Wii U being totally brand new didn't even move to the needle because it's obvious Japan prefers handhelds heavily this is well known, just ask any gamer that lives in japan, it's cultural thing.   

Whatever other reasons, Switch got a lot of Wii U content early on and that what made Switch sell so much early on. Nintendo almost used every big franchise they have on the first 12 months. I reckon it's unprecedented.

MasonADC said:
linkink said:

I don't see what's so funny about it. it launched with the sequel to one of the best selling games ever in japan, it had  good third party support early on. a year later it had a amazing Mario 3d world, then a few months later Mario kart 8, followed by smash. This is all within 2 years of launch, these games we also a gigantic leap in graphics over the wii, a much fresher experience then Wii U ports. 4 massive franchises  in 2 years span, but Wii u was already dead at that point regardless of Nintendo franchises, if was handheld i would eat my own shorts if in those 2 years if it didn't sell 6 million.

Waiting months for games isn't exactly ideal

Wii U was a bit too much in this regard, but except NSW, that's how things work with Nintendo. When it's not like this on the first 12 months, it gets pretty boring after 24 months or so.

Bofferbrauer2 said:
RedKingXIII said:

New Super Mario Bros. U - December 8, 2012
New Super Luigi U - July 13, 2013
Wind Waker HD - September 26, 2013
Super Mario 3D World - November 21, 2013

If your next big game is coming 5 months after your console released, that's just bad. This was a problem during the entire life cycle of Wii U, months of software droughts. Even if it was a interesting hardware (for Japan, at least), and even if it had good software, that doesn't matter if they are released months apart of each other, killing any momentum that Wii U needed to have to succeed.

It didn't fail in Japan for being a home console - it failed because of terrible software droughts. Just like it did everywhere.

Add to that that despite all this, the Wii U was still initially outselling the PS4. And again, the reason wasn't because the PS4 ain't portable, but because Sony had neglected Japan so much that Knack was pretty much the best thing they got for over a year over there. No console sells without games.

Had the Wii U better software support, especially early on, I'm sure it would have outsold the Gamecube WW and the PS4 would have had a much harder time to overtake the Wii U in Japan.

But here's another problem with Japan and videogame sales: Games that cater to Japanese gamers are increasingly niche games and not produced by the big publishers, even Japanese ones. You get less than a handful of AAA games that do well in Japan each year as the whole industry is turning to the western markets, leaving Japan to mobile - and increasingly PC (still niche in Japan, but constantly growing numbers).

Since the games the Japanese people want to play are generally more niche, they get released on handheld devices as the production costs on these devices are much lower than on a home console, meaning the chances of recouping the costs are higher. As a result, handheld gaming exploded in Japan while consoles falter; and handheld already had a big advantage there because of the work and living culture (long transits and work hours, small homes with limited space for consoles).

In other words, Japanese play handheld mostly because they are always mobile and because the big consoles shunned the games they are playing. But if those games would come back to consoles, the consoles also would sell better again, though the still have the cultural disadvantage.

Yes. All you say about Japanese market and niche games makes a lot of sense.



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


0D0 on 03 June 2019
RolStoppable said:
linkink said:

Almost everybody agrees there was no saving the Wii U. you haven't proven anything, Kinda just seems like you are delusional. Most agree japan vastly prefer's handhelds, just because you think something, doesn't mean it's proof. Can you explain why N64 sold respectable numbers in US, yet flopped in Europe? or why xbox one flopped in europe yet is selling good numbers in the USA, it's not all about software. Preferences, Brand and desirable hardware play a major role. you even bring a pathetic argument that system just launched starting selling 50-60k a month cause there wasn't no releases for a couple of months. 

Yes, there was no saving the Wii U. Part of why is that its software pipeline was broken right out of the gate and the droughts started immediately after launch. Software sells hardware, so if there's no new software for an extended period of time, the hardware won't sell. That's why Wii U sales were so bad so quickly. Conversely, there were bumps to hardware sales when new software got released.

Yes, Japan prefers handheld consoles because they are more convenient and the only advantage that a home console can provide nowadays are better graphics which hardly anyone cares about. Still, if home console or handheld console was the only thing that mattered, the Vita should have sold better than the PS4. Since that didn't happen, the logical conclusion is that games are more important than the console itself. But since you keep being in denial that games matter, we get posts from you where you claim that the software droughts of the Wii U did no harm to its sales.

It's pretty easy to explain why the Nintendo 64 as well as the Xbox One sold respectable numbers in the USA, but not elsewhere. The rate of multiconsole ownership is historically much, much higher in the USA than anywhere else in the world, so international struggles of a console don't translate to the US-American market in the same way. The costs of electronics as well as disposable income allows US-Americans to buy more consoles as well as games than people of other countries. Indeed, it's not only that the average gamer in the USA buys more consoles, but also more games per console. The USA leads the world in tie ratios by a comfortable margin. An additional reason for the relative success of the Nintendo 64 and the Xbox One in the USA is software that appeals to the market. The Nintendo 64 heavily dominated the FPS genre in its generation, the Xbox brand in general has the image of the American console because of its software library.

Signalstar said:
Alternate take:

The Wii U was such a colossal failure that Nintendo had to combine their handheld and home console departments just to beat the PS4.

It would make more sense to say that Nintendo reacted to Sony's decision to only support one console going forward. Sony announced in mid-2013 that all of their American and European studios were going to make PS4 games, so Sony's exit from the handheld market was already a done deal at that point. If Nintendo hadn't combined their home console and handheld efforts, they would have been the only console manufacturer to support two separate consoles simultaneously which is an obvious competitive disadvantage.

Do You mean in Japan only nobody cares about better graphics?

Shiken said:
linkink said:

earn sympathy over what? this forum is a waste of time, honestly it's not good for me. i kinda have to thank you for getting me banned last time, and this time as well. i'm wasting time here talking about video games sales, when i haven't played a game in months.

If you are talking about my posts in thread, you are gonna change what i think. there many sales  experts on resetera that think the same, when switch was selling it was universal that everybody thought was see what happens when nintendo makes appealing hardware. 

Well seeing how this is a sales forum, and based on your  tendency  to predict on bias alone, yeah I would say this forum is not a good fit for you.  Also if you like arguing as you say, it helps to actually have a good argument.  Anyway, see you next time you come to "admit you are wrong" when the Switch passes 100 mil.

It'll not.

:P

:D

DarthMetalliCube said:

Sony seems to be becoming far more Western-oriented with their games, and Nintendo is focusing on portability with the Switch, which the Japense tend to value. So, not too surprising, but still somewhat impressive considering the depths Nintendo had sunk to there during the Gamecube era compared to PS2 less than 2 decades ago.

Nintendo's been a handheld company since GBA. Their strength, soul and success are on handheld only. Leaving the console market was a brilliant decision.



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


Shiken on 03 June 2019

Shiken said:

Well seeing how this is a sales forum, and based on your  tendency  to predict on bias alone, yeah I would say this forum is not a good fit for you.  Also if you like arguing as you say, it helps to actually have a good argument.  Anyway, see you next time you come to "admit you are wrong" when the Switch passes 100 mil.

It'll not.

:P

:D

Care to make a bet?


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0D0 on 03 June 2019
Shiken said:

It'll not.

:P

:D

Care to make a bet?

I do. I'm not a bet guy. I'm not that confident, yet.



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?