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Forums - Gaming Discussion - If the 9th gen consoles launch with BC in 2020, is there any reason to produce 8th gen consoles beyond 2020?

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When will both 8th gen consoles end production?

Today 1 3.23%
 
Tomorrow 1 3.23%
 
2019 0 0%
 
2020 0 0%
 
2021 1 3.23%
 
2022 22 70.97%
 
2525 6 19.35%
 
Total:31
Mr Puggsly said:
EricHiggin said:

We also had a $499 and $599 PS3 and then a $399 PS4.

I'm just saying the reason PS isn't lowering the price is mostly because they don't feel the need to, not that they can't. The fact that MS is doing so and by considerably less, with games included, means PS is selling enough and making enough, they see no reason to lower the price. However, PS knows they can't hold that price forever, and they also would like to keep making money on the hardware for as long as possible, so creating a PS4 SS makes sense. When sales finally start to drop off consistently, they will have a cheaper console to be able to drop the price and meet all of their targeted goals going forward.

PS isn't worried about a price war, if anything MS is, because when PS4 drops in price, it will likely lead to an XB1S(ADE) price drop, less sales, and less profits. MS is also indirectly influencing PS to drop PS4 prices by offering the SAD edition for $50 lower than the XB1S msrp, which is the same as PS4 now. Prices have to be dropped to continue momentum or to compete, and while PS is willing to give up a little bit before they budge, they won't let sales slip too far without doing anything about it. As for 7th gen, you have a point, considering how expensive PS3 was to manufacture. A price war would hurt PS then and MS wouldn't mind keeping their prices higher than they would otherwise, because it would mean more profit for a time. Until of course sales started to decline because that market had become saturated, so then prices would need to be dropped regardless.

That expensive manufacturing problem doesn't exist today due to the hardware used in both consoles this gen, so the only market factor holding the PS4 price up so high is PS4 sales momentum. When that momentum continues to slip as it has been, PS will eventually lower the price, new model or not. As long as companies see worthy potential growth, they will go after it, and $249 and $199 will no doubt lead to continued growth in sales for PS4 hardware, with lower profits for each one of those sales, yet higher profits overall at the end of the year. With PS5 likely a year away, PS isn't going to allow the momentum they've built up since 2013 to dwindle and hinder their next gen launch.

The problem I see with killing off the XB1S, is that all MS would have left is the SAD edition. That console requires decent internet, and the lower you have to drop the price to sell it, the less likely those buyers are to have worthy internet to use it. It's right back to Mattrick all over again. If you don't have good enough internet, then buy a 360. If you don't have good enough internet for the SAD edition, then buy a PS4 basically.

I'm not sure what your point is exactly, the PS3's high price was objectively a bad idea. Especially when you consider the 360 was doing similar visuals at a lower price.

You don't have to defend Sony, I'm not suggesting they don't have ability to lower the price. I'm saying MS and Sony are happy to not be in a price war. The X1S Digital is almost like a niche option, the real X1S is still officially $299.

Anyhoo, the PS3 and 360 were expensive until the end. I suspect 8th gen could continue that trend.

My point is that PS and possibly MS are going to continue to reduce their 8th gen console prices. PS3 having such a high launch price is a big part of the reason why the hardware never got really cheap. PS1, PS2, and PS4, all had affordable entry prices based on their hardware, so there's little reason for PS not to continue lowering prices with the available late adopter market. $299-$499 next gen consoles with no super slim means leaving a lot of late adopter money on the table. MS may want to leave 8th gen behind more quickly though, so they may not bother with super slims and a $199 msrp. The fact that they didn't change the hardware (aside from removing the drive and slot) in the SAD edition can't help but make you wonder if MS cares much about 8th gen anymore.

I'm not defending anyone, I'm just pointing out what I see happening in the market going forward between both companies. I disagree, and believe that we're going to see a PS4 SS by this holiday at a reduced price. 2013 brought new affordable consoles. 3 years later in 2016, cheaper updated slim versions. 3 years later in 2019, even cheaper updated super slim(s). 2020 new affordable(ish) next gen consoles.

If updated 8th gen hardware is coming, it's definitely coming this year. It won't try to compete in the same year and be quickly overshadowed by next gen hardware. That's why the SAD edition is out now and why an updated PS4 would definitely launch by this holiday season at the latest. Give that hardware one whole year to establish itself then move the focus to next gen hardware. $249 and $199, 8th gen consoles, with the libraries they will have by then, will basically sell themselves at that point.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 27 April 2019

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EricHiggin said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I'm not sure what your point is exactly, the PS3's high price was objectively a bad idea. Especially when you consider the 360 was doing similar visuals at a lower price.

You don't have to defend Sony, I'm not suggesting they don't have ability to lower the price. I'm saying MS and Sony are happy to not be in a price war. The X1S Digital is almost like a niche option, the real X1S is still officially $299.

Anyhoo, the PS3 and 360 were expensive until the end. I suspect 8th gen could continue that trend.

My point is that PS and possibly MS are going to continue to reduce their 8th gen console prices. PS3 having such a high launch price is a big part of the reason why the hardware never got really cheap. PS1, PS2, and PS4, all had affordable entry prices based on their hardware, so there's little reason for PS not to continue lowering prices with the available late adopter market. $299-$499 next gen consoles with no super slim means leaving a lot of late adopter money on the table. MS may want to leave 8th gen behind more quickly though, so they may not bother with super slims and a $199 msrp. The fact that they didn't change the hardware (aside from removing the drive and slot) in the SAD edition can't help but make you wonder if MS cares much about 8th gen anymore.

I'm not defending anyone, I'm just pointing out what I see happening in the market going forward between both companies. I disagree, and believe that we're going to see a PS4 SS by this holiday at a reduced price. 2013 brought new affordable consoles. 3 years later in 2016, cheaper updated slim versions. 3 years later in 2019, even cheaper updated super slim(s). 2020 new affordable(ish) next gen consoles.

If updated 8th gen hardware is coming, it's definitely coming this year. It won't try to compete in the same year and be quickly overshadowed by next gen hardware. That's why the SAD edition is out now and why an updated PS4 would definitely launch by this holiday season at the latest. Give that hardware one whole year to establish itself then move the focus to next gen hardware. $249 and $199, 8th gen consoles, with the libraries they will have by then, will basically sell themselves at that point.

PS3 started very high in price, but the parts also dropped quickly and they removed things to lower the price. By 2013 they were selling it at a good profit. But MS also kept the price high so officially prices stayed high during the 7th gen. There might be final revisions for X1 and PS4, I just don't they be a budget price per se. Also, they don't necessarily need to make a new model to make production cheaper.

I have no idea what MS's intentions for the 8th gen are. At the very least we know Gears 5 and Halo Infinite are coming, while some 9th gen content will likely have X1 support. MS is certainly looking to future primarily but I don't believe X1 support is dying immediately. X1 Digital is an interesting way to test the water for an all digital console, but it can't succeed at $250. If they drop it to $149 around 2020, it suddenly make sense.

We might see a PS4 SS at $250, but that's also about the lowest 360 and PS3 went with a HDD, officially. If MS and Sony happen release 9th gen consoles starting at $299, then expect 8th gen sales to die faster.



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Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

the plan of super slim PS4 is for it be cheaper. Also X1 got 179 promotions already. Plus MS wouldn't put X1 SAD if they where to stop manufacturing at November this year.

If you recall Sony had the PS3 Super Slim and MS had the 360 E. They were cheaper to produce but as consumers we didn't really benefit from a low price.

I don't think the production will end this year, nor next, it really depends on the intentions of the cheaper 9th gen models. I mean if they can hit 6TF and other improved specs for $299, then we don't really need 8th gen consoles on the market.

I'm really scratching my head looking at the X1S Digital, we don't need this thing. I kinda hope they kill it off first.

Not sure if they were as cheap as you think and if they were making a lot of profits on the HW. I don't remember any reports on this account.

And if you consider PS3 released for 499-599 and were finished at 199 this was and even bigger drop than PS2 299 to 99.

thetonestarr said:

PS5 hardware BC does mean that I'm skipping buying a PS4 entirely. I've been planning to wait until the PS4 was sufficiently cheap enough, but now I'm just going to wait until PS5 is cheap enough and pick up all the PS4 titles I missed out on.

That said, I think I agree that a PS4 base model (maybe a cheaper-to-produce PS4 Mini) will continue being sold at budget prices, while the high end production moves on to PS5. Fully agree that PS4 Pro's market will be 100% moving on.

So you are intending on purchasing "PS4" at the time "PS6" arrives? Or will you then consider that PS6 will have BC to PS4 and PS5 and will wait for the price to drop and there will be a PS7 already?

Because PS5 low price will probably only happen at about 2023 and at that time PS4 would already be 10 years old, so you would be planing on playing very outdated.

Mr Puggsly said:
EricHiggin said:

My point is that PS and possibly MS are going to continue to reduce their 8th gen console prices. PS3 having such a high launch price is a big part of the reason why the hardware never got really cheap. PS1, PS2, and PS4, all had affordable entry prices based on their hardware, so there's little reason for PS not to continue lowering prices with the available late adopter market. $299-$499 next gen consoles with no super slim means leaving a lot of late adopter money on the table. MS may want to leave 8th gen behind more quickly though, so they may not bother with super slims and a $199 msrp. The fact that they didn't change the hardware (aside from removing the drive and slot) in the SAD edition can't help but make you wonder if MS cares much about 8th gen anymore.

I'm not defending anyone, I'm just pointing out what I see happening in the market going forward between both companies. I disagree, and believe that we're going to see a PS4 SS by this holiday at a reduced price. 2013 brought new affordable consoles. 3 years later in 2016, cheaper updated slim versions. 3 years later in 2019, even cheaper updated super slim(s). 2020 new affordable(ish) next gen consoles.

If updated 8th gen hardware is coming, it's definitely coming this year. It won't try to compete in the same year and be quickly overshadowed by next gen hardware. That's why the SAD edition is out now and why an updated PS4 would definitely launch by this holiday season at the latest. Give that hardware one whole year to establish itself then move the focus to next gen hardware. $249 and $199, 8th gen consoles, with the libraries they will have by then, will basically sell themselves at that point.

PS3 started very high in price, but the parts also dropped quickly and they removed things to lower the price. By 2013 they were selling it at a good profit. But MS also kept the price high so officially prices stayed high during the 7th gen. There might be final revisions for X1 and PS4, I just don't they be a budget price per se. Also, they don't necessarily need to make a new model to make production cheaper.

I have no idea what MS's intentions for the 8th gen are. At the very least we know Gears 5 and Halo Infinite are coming, while some 9th gen content will likely have X1 support. MS is certainly looking to future primarily but I don't believe X1 support is dying immediately. X1 Digital is an interesting way to test the water for an all digital console, but it can't succeed at $250. If they drop it to $149 around 2020, it suddenly make sense.

We might see a PS4 SS at $250, but that's also about the lowest 360 and PS3 went with a HDD, officially. If MS and Sony happen release 9th gen consoles starting at $299, then expect 8th gen sales to die faster.

The parts didn't drop quickly. Sony done several price cuts while still losing a lot of money until the Super Slim. Do you have source for good profit on PS3 sold (HW alone)?

MS kept the price "high" because the direct competitor were losing money at that point and MS had to recover from the previous gen plus RROD. They probably didn't though they would sell much more at a lower price so better keep the price that makes money.



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Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Sadly, 8th gen consoles proved to the platform holders that hardware backwards compatibility is not as big of a seller anymore. Maybe the XBTwo will have BC through digital means, but I doubt the PS5 will have any at all, outside of the streaming alternative. And 3rd parties would rather make remakes/remasters at full price rather than allow people to already own them to continue playing them.

It's a shame, because for many people (especially those who didn't purchase a console the previous gen) it immediately adds a ton of value to the new hardware, offering access to a whole library of games at discounted prices, not to mention the value of preserving your collection throughout the generations.

So no, they won't stop producing PS4s for a long time, maybe they will even reach the 100$ mark. XBOnes are going to stop production earlier, though.



You know it deserves the GOTY.

Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

Darwinianevolution said:

Sadly, 8th gen consoles proved to the platform holders that hardware backwards compatibility is not as big of a seller anymore. Maybe the XBTwo will have BC through digital means, but I doubt the PS5 will have any at all, outside of the streaming alternative. And 3rd parties would rather make remakes/remasters at full price rather than allow people to already own them to continue playing them.

It's a shame, because for many people (especially those who didn't purchase a console the previous gen) it immediately adds a ton of value to the new hardware, offering access to a whole library of games at discounted prices, not to mention the value of preserving your collection throughout the generations.

So no, they won't stop producing PS4s for a long time, maybe they will even reach the 100$ mark. XBOnes are going to stop production earlier, though.

"Because [the PS5] is based in part on the PS4’s architecture, it will also be backward-compatible with games for that console,"



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thetonestarr said:

PS5 hardware BC does mean that I'm skipping buying a PS4 entirely. I've been planning to wait until the PS4 was sufficiently cheap enough, but now I'm just going to wait until PS5 is cheap enough and pick up all the PS4 titles I missed out on.

That said, I think I agree that a PS4 base model (maybe a cheaper-to-produce PS4 Mini) will continue being sold at budget prices, while the high end production moves on to PS5. Fully agree that PS4 Pro's market will be 100% moving on.

*PS4 comes out*

"I'm gonna wait until it's cheap enough"

7 years later....

"PS5i coming out, I'm gonna hold off on the PS4 and wait until the PS5 is cheap enough..."

7 years later....

"PS6 is coming out, I'm gonna hold off on the PS5 and wait for the PS6 to be cheap enough..."

LOLOL, dude your dumb as h**l..

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Last edited by Pemalite - on 07 May 2019

Zoombael said:
Darwinianevolution said:

Sadly, 8th gen consoles proved to the platform holders that hardware backwards compatibility is not as big of a seller anymore. Maybe the XBTwo will have BC through digital means, but I doubt the PS5 will have any at all, outside of the streaming alternative. And 3rd parties would rather make remakes/remasters at full price rather than allow people to already own them to continue playing them.

It's a shame, because for many people (especially those who didn't purchase a console the previous gen) it immediately adds a ton of value to the new hardware, offering access to a whole library of games at discounted prices, not to mention the value of preserving your collection throughout the generations.

So no, they won't stop producing PS4s for a long time, maybe they will even reach the 100$ mark. XBOnes are going to stop production earlier, though.

"Because [the PS5] is based in part on the PS4’s architecture, it will also be backward-compatible with games for that console,"

Until it's confirmed, nothing but a rumour.



You know it deserves the GOTY.

Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

TranceformerFX said:
thetonestarr said:

PS5 hardware BC does mean that I'm skipping buying a PS4 entirely. I've been planning to wait until the PS4 was sufficiently cheap enough, but now I'm just going to wait until PS5 is cheap enough and pick up all the PS4 titles I missed out on.

That said, I think I agree that a PS4 base model (maybe a cheaper-to-produce PS4 Mini) will continue being sold at budget prices, while the high end production moves on to PS5. Fully agree that PS4 Pro's market will be 100% moving on.

*PS4 comes out*

"I'm gonna wait until it's cheap enough"

7 years later....

"PS5i coming out, I'm gonna hold off on the PS4 and wait until the PS5 is cheap enough..."

7 years later....

"PS6 is coming out, I'm gonna hold off on the PS5 and wait for the PS6 to be cheap enough..."

LOLOL, dude your dumb as h**l..

There are literally 4 games I want from PS4, and none of which do I care to pay full price for. By the time the PS5 has gotten a price reduction, there may be enough games to actually justify the purchase, and a good chunk of the games I want should be budget priced, so I'll be able to enjoy all the games I want for a fraction of the price you pay to rush the experience. In the meanwhile, I've been completely content playing other games on other consoles. I have missed out on precisely nothing.

LOLOL, dude you're ignorant as "h**l".

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Last edited by Pemalite - on 07 May 2019

 SW-5120-1900-6153

DonFerrari said:
thetonestarr said:

PS5 hardware BC does mean that I'm skipping buying a PS4 entirely. I've been planning to wait until the PS4 was sufficiently cheap enough, but now I'm just going to wait until PS5 is cheap enough and pick up all the PS4 titles I missed out on.

That said, I think I agree that a PS4 base model (maybe a cheaper-to-produce PS4 Mini) will continue being sold at budget prices, while the high end production moves on to PS5. Fully agree that PS4 Pro's market will be 100% moving on.

So you are intending on purchasing "PS4" at the time "PS6" arrives? Or will you then consider that PS6 will have BC to PS4 and PS5 and will wait for the price to drop and there will be a PS7 already?

Because PS5 low price will probably only happen at about 2023 and at that time PS4 would already be 10 years old, so you would be planing on playing very outdated.

Ok. That's fine.



 SW-5120-1900-6153

Zoombael said:
Darwinianevolution said:

Sadly, 8th gen consoles proved to the platform holders that hardware backwards compatibility is not as big of a seller anymore. Maybe the XBTwo will have BC through digital means, but I doubt the PS5 will have any at all, outside of the streaming alternative. And 3rd parties would rather make remakes/remasters at full price rather than allow people to already own them to continue playing them.

It's a shame, because for many people (especially those who didn't purchase a console the previous gen) it immediately adds a ton of value to the new hardware, offering access to a whole library of games at discounted prices, not to mention the value of preserving your collection throughout the generations.

So no, they won't stop producing PS4s for a long time, maybe they will even reach the 100$ mark. XBOnes are going to stop production earlier, though.

"Because [the PS5] is based in part on the PS4’s architecture, it will also be backward-compatible with games for that console,"

Technically, there's no real barrier. The question is, will Sony activate the feature? They could just block PS4 discs from reading and force you to buy the remasters for the PS4 instead. Until they announce it, we can't be totally sure Sony will include the feature.