By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales Discussion - PS4 and Switch sales comparison: some things to consider

Train wreck said:
Shiken said:

The PS3 was better than the PS2 in everyway, but did it even break 100 mil?

You seriously need to have a logic check, because you just described the difference between console generations and tried to relate it to guaranteed sales lol.

Everyway?  Last time I checked, the PS2 definitely had a more appealing price point world wide, I don't know about 2013 but back in 2001, price was a huge determining factor in console sales.

Agreed here, $599 was an absurd price to release a console in 2006 and telling people to get a second job was pouring gas on the fire.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Around the Network
Train wreck said:
Shiken said:

The PS3 was better than the PS2 in everyway, but did it even break 100 mil?

You seriously need to have a logic check, because you just described the difference between console generations and tried to relate it to guaranteed sales lol.

Everyway?  Last time I checked, the PS2 definitely had a more appealing price point world wide, I don't know about 2013 but back in 2001, price was a huge determining factor in console sales.

I was talking about the console itself.  If we are going to talk about price point, once again MS dropped the ball.  You can claim that had MS priced more competitively and did not make the X1 a PR nightmare that the PS4 would have still sold more, but you have zero evidence to back it up.  For the majority of its first two years it got mostly cross gen games and had no major exclusives until Bloodborne over two years later.  This is something that has been proven true by even Sony fans calling it the indie station 4 and what not.

What is also fact is that before the X1 reveal, the majority of people on the net were more hyped about the next XBox than they were for the PS4.  Once MS botched the reveal, and in turn the launch, it was only then that the tide would eventually shift in favor of the PS4.

I am not saying the PS4 would do worse than PS3, but I am saying the X1 would have heavily cut into its sales.  But due to the competition shooting themselves in the foot, the race was over before it began, making it extremely easy to sell as well as it did.

At the end of the day, Switch is selling great and PS4 is selling great.  All this pointless debate of why or who had it easier is dragging on way longer than it needs to, so unless someone can actually give me decent point worth debating, I am done diving down this rabbit hole any further.



Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-5643-2927-1984

Animal Crossing NH Dream Address: DA-1078-9916-3261

zorg1000 said:
Train wreck said:

Sigh....What numbers are we talking about?  The PS4 selling 120M instead of 130M?  At that point its just unnecessary nitpicking.

Why are you sighing?

Impossible to know for sure but considering that PS2+XB, PS3+360 and PS4+XBO are all going to sell roughly the same amount than we can make a safe conclusion that the more one sells, the less the other will sell.

If XBO didn't have such a terrible PR disaster at the beginning of the generation than maybe it would finish the gen around 70m instead of the 50-55m its headed for so PS4 would likely sell something like ~110m instead of the 125-130m its headed for.

Who knows, my only point was that Sony making good choices wasnt the only thing that has helped PS4 sell so well but also MS making terrible choices with XBO.

The same thing applies to other generations. 360 was able to steal a huge amount of the PS2 audience not only because it was a good console but also because Sony made huge mistakes with PS3 early on that took a long time to overcome.

Another example, PS1 was such a huge hit not only because it was a good console but also because Nintendo essentially handed them all 3rd party support by going with cartridges and Sega in general was an absolute mess at the time.

History has shown that it's not enough to just make a good console if you want to steal your competitors audience,, they also need to make mistakes in order for their fanbase to Switch sides.

So a decent/excellent PR launch for the XBO (and Wii U...ill get to that on my next post) would account for up to 15-20 million less PS4's being sold?!  The base XBO would still have the very major problem of being technically inferior to the base PS4 (900p vs 1080p in most early games...and still to this day)...those predate any PR reveal.  Are you saying that the buying public would have opted for a less powerful machine despite the same price?

Also where would the gains happen at the expense of the PS4?  Europe, Middle East, Africa, Central/South America, Mexico, Canada, AsiaxJapan, Japan?  I think a better proposition PS4 would outsell a better proposition XBO any day in those territories and given that the XBO wasn't even available in many of those countries at launch (is that part of the PR problem as well?), the PS4 would have the upper hand anyway.

So that leaves the US.  the 20M unit gap for the Xbox360/PS3 made sense, the PS3 was poorly received and never fully recovered...but if we are talking about good reveals for both, is that number still 20 million?  The Xbox 360 had a major second wind with Kinect, would the same be said for the One?  There are lots of variables besides launches that count towards that final number.

People post here often that a better PR/received XBO and Wii U would mean lower PS4 sales and never quantify it.  My first reaction is that the better outcomes of both would have amounted to something insignificant because a better proposition for the PS4 means it would sell more on that merit alone, greater than the impact of its competition doing well. 

Last edited by Train wreck - on 02 April 2019

Train wreck said:
zorg1000 said:

Why are you sighing?

Impossible to know for sure but considering that PS2+XB, PS3+360 and PS4+XBO are all going to sell roughly the same amount than we can make a safe conclusion that the more one sells, the less the other will sell.

If XBO didn't have such a terrible PR disaster at the beginning of the generation than maybe it would finish the gen around 70m instead of the 50-55m its headed for so PS4 would likely sell something like ~110m instead of the 125-130m its headed for.

Who knows, my only point was that Sony making good choices wasnt the only thing that has helped PS4 sell so well but also MS making terrible choices with XBO.

The same thing applies to other generations. 360 was able to steal a huge amount of the PS2 audience not only because it was a good console but also because Sony made huge mistakes with PS3 early on that took a long time to overcome.

Another example, PS1 was such a huge hit not only because it was a good console but also because Nintendo essentially handed them all 3rd party support by going with cartridges and Sega in general was an absolute mess at the time.

History has shown that it's not enough to just make a good console if you want to steal your competitors audience,, they also need to make mistakes in order for their fanbase to Switch sides.

So a decent/excellent PR launch for the XBO (and Wii U...ill get to that on my next post) would account for up to 15-20 million less PS4's being sold?!  The base XBO would still have the very major problem of being technically inferior to the base PS4 (900p vs 1080p in most early games...and still to this day)...those predate any PR reveal.  Are you saying that the buying public would have opted for a less powerful machine despite the same price?

Also where would the gains happen at the expense of the PS4?  Europe, Middle East, Africa, Central/South America, Mexico, Canada, AsiaxJapan, Japan?  I think a better proposition PS4 would outsell a better proposition XBO any day in those territories and given that the XBO wasn't even available in many of those countries at launch (is that part of the PR problem as well?), the PS4 would have the upper hand anyway.

So that leaves the US.  the 20M unit gap for the Xbox360/PS3 made sense, the PS3 was poorly received and never fully recovered...but if we are talking about good reveals for both, is that number still 20 million?  The Xbox 360 had a major second wind with Kinect, would the same be said for the One?  There are lots of variables besides launches that count towards that final number.

People post here often that a better PR/received XBO and Wii U would mean lower PS4 sales and never quantify it.  My first reaction is that the better outcomes of both would have amounted to something insignificant because a better proposition for the PS4 means it would sell more on that merit alone, greater than the impact of its competition doing well. 

If it resulted in 15-20 million higher XBO sales than yes I do believe so. The always online, no used games, Kinect required, TV focus, "2nd tier" countries, $499 price tag, etc resulted in huge backlash for XBO. These things didnt just make XBO less appealing, they also made the "games first" message from Sony look like some forward thinking, pro-consumer stance when it would have just been seen as the standard, logical focus if Microsoft didnt make all those strange blunders.

The sales would have came from a bit of everywhere. US+UK sales are ~30m vs ~35m in PS4 favor, these countries were very pro-Xbox last generation so without the massive blunders than perhaps it would be switched with the slight lead going in XBO favor.

As for other places, I fully agree that PS4 would still dominate but XBO would be closer. Outside of US/UK sales are ~12m vs ~58m in PS4 favor. Perhaps that would be closer to 20m vs 50m. Still a very dominate performance from PS4.

That would put current sales at ~55m vs ~80m instead of ~42m vs ~94m

No I dont think a 2nd wind like 360 had would take place which is why I'm guessing ~70m lifetime rather than the ~85m that 360 did. And yes there are more variables than launch but major launch mistakes many times will stick with you for the whole generation. It's a snowball affect where once people think one is the superior choice than it just continues to escalate and fixing your mistakes only helps soften the blow rather than reverse the trend.

Like I said in my last post, history has shown that it takes more than just good decisions to steal your competitors userbase. PS1 would not have been able to steal so much of the SNES/Genesis userbase without the poor decisions Nintendo/Sega made and 360 would not have been able to steal so much of the PS2 userbase without the poor decisions Sony made. The PS4 vs XBO situation is simply another example of history repeating itself.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Personally, I think there are other factors that should be taken into consideration for the Switch, not those. Such as the PS4 having less competition than the Switch. Before anyone jumps the gun, here is my reasoning.

The Wii U (Which was $299.99 and $349.99) was a complete failure immediately after launch. So much so that last generation systems began outselling it back in early 2013. Second, the Xbox One had a completely botched launch and also sold for $499.99 initially. The Xbox One was also weaker than the PS4, so both the Wii U and Xbox One were less appealing than the PS4 overall. So the PS4 was both A) Cheaper than the direct competition of Xbox and B) More powerful than all the other consoles.

Meanwhile, The Switch has had to contend with the PS4's best selling year since launch, as well as new product launches (Xbox One X). Not to mention consoles that are both more powerful than it but selling for cheaper (Xbox One S regularly goes down to $200, and PS4 is often $250. Switch is $299.99). Even 2018 was better sales wise for PS4 than 2014, 2015, or 2016. The Switch is neither the cheapest console, nor the most powerful. Nor does it have the benefit of being the most appealing in an objective manner. The only benefit it has is being "new" which, as history shows, isn't always enough, and yet...it's still selling fantastically. 



Around the Network
Shiken said:
Pinkie_pie said:
So the switch had to contend with the ps4 pro made it tougher than when the ps4 released? Wii u was only a year old and was selling decently. Ps4 also released on the same date as the xbox one so that alone made it harder for the ps4 than what the switch had to contend with at launched. You two are nintendo fans so of course you would think ps4 had it easier than the switch

I have not played a Nintendo console for other than Zelda since the N64, so you must be new.  I am someone who has been an avid Playstation fan since the PS2 and not only got a PS4 at launch, but upgraded to the Pro.  I started playing my Switch more because I like what it brings to the table, which is far more than the PS4 did in its first two years.  But please, go on about how I am a fanboy as you imply.  I find it comical to say the very least.

As someone who has actually been part of both launches, I can tell you for a fact that the PS4 had it easy.  When the competition shoots themselves in the foot right out of the gate, your argument falls flat.  The only thing you are proving with your comments is why your comments should be ignored as you try to make a point that does not exist on a regular basis.

X1 sells about half of PS4 (even more when considering first 2 years) and have been very close in USA in that period. So I wouldn't call that a weak competition.

3DS had a much weaker competition on PSVita (which sold about as much as WiiU) and even being more time in the market, having more models and being much cheaper sold less than PS4.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Shiken said:
Train wreck said:

Everyway?  Last time I checked, the PS2 definitely had a more appealing price point world wide, I don't know about 2013 but back in 2001, price was a huge determining factor in console sales.

I was talking about the console itself.  If we are going to talk about price point, once again MS dropped the ball.  You can claim that had MS priced more competitively and did not make the X1 a PR nightmare that the PS4 would have still sold more, but you have zero evidence to back it up.  For the majority of its first two years it got mostly cross gen games and had no major exclusives until Bloodborne over two years later.  This is something that has been proven true by even Sony fans calling it the indie station 4 and what not.

What is also fact is that before the X1 reveal, the majority of people on the net were more hyped about the next XBox than they were for the PS4.  Once MS botched the reveal, and in turn the launch, it was only then that the tide would eventually shift in favor of the PS4.

I am not saying the PS4 would do worse than PS3, but I am saying the X1 would have heavily cut into its sales.  But due to the competition shooting themselves in the foot, the race was over before it began, making it extremely easy to sell as well as it did.

At the end of the day, Switch is selling great and PS4 is selling great.  All this pointless debate of why or who had it easier is dragging on way longer than it needs to, so unless someone can actually give me decent point worth debating, I am done diving down this rabbit hole any further.

Theres some truth to this.
Old picture showcaseing the fact that Xbox had a slightly stronger 2013-2014:

By today in 2019, the differnce in exclusives though is huge.



Pinkie_pie said:
So the switch had to contend with the ps4 pro made it tougher than when the ps4 released? Wii u was only a year old and was selling decently. Ps4 also released on the same date as the xbox one so that alone made it harder for the ps4 than what the switch had to contend with at launched. You two are nintendo fans so of course you would think ps4 had it easier than the switch

When was the WiiU ever selling decently?  It exited it's first holiday season with over 2 million sales and only managed to add another 1.5 million by the following holiday season.  And that was with nothing to contend with but an 8 year old Xbox 360 and a 7 year old PS3.

WE 11/9/2013:

3DS -  350,666
PS3 -  160,637
360 -  123,739
PSV -   70,794
WiiU -  59,112
Wii -    31,290

I bought my WiiU at launch and got a great deal of enjoyment out of it.  But, I don't disillusion myself into thinking that it didn't flop hard out of the gate.



i think we will see in the future other (different) switch models too, so it will be the same



JRPGfan said:
Shiken said:

I was talking about the console itself.  If we are going to talk about price point, once again MS dropped the ball.  You can claim that had MS priced more competitively and did not make the X1 a PR nightmare that the PS4 would have still sold more, but you have zero evidence to back it up.  For the majority of its first two years it got mostly cross gen games and had no major exclusives until Bloodborne over two years later.  This is something that has been proven true by even Sony fans calling it the indie station 4 and what not.

What is also fact is that before the X1 reveal, the majority of people on the net were more hyped about the next XBox than they were for the PS4.  Once MS botched the reveal, and in turn the launch, it was only then that the tide would eventually shift in favor of the PS4.

I am not saying the PS4 would do worse than PS3, but I am saying the X1 would have heavily cut into its sales.  But due to the competition shooting themselves in the foot, the race was over before it began, making it extremely easy to sell as well as it did.

At the end of the day, Switch is selling great and PS4 is selling great.  All this pointless debate of why or who had it easier is dragging on way longer than it needs to, so unless someone can actually give me decent point worth debating, I am done diving down this rabbit hole any further.

Theres some truth to this.
Old picture showcaseing the fact that Xbox had a slightly stronger 2013-2014:

By today in 2019, the differnce in exclusives though is huge.

Oh absolutely, Sony offers way more now, not even close.  And the quality is way higher as well.  There is a reason my X1 is even less played than my WiiU lol.



Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-5643-2927-1984

Animal Crossing NH Dream Address: DA-1078-9916-3261