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Forums - Politics Discussion - Why Jordan Peele is Unlikely to Cast White Lead: 'I've Seen That Movie'

Not only is your thread title ridiculous, but you're intentionally missing the point.

Congrats.



                            

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DarthMetalliCube said:

I don't get why some people act like white dudes are this huge collective that all think, act, and behave alike. They're as diverse from eachother as they are with other races, maybe moreso in some cases. (of course the same applies for other races too). Not just with physical attributes but personality characteristics as well. The notion that myself (an American with Italian Polish ancestory) is closer to a northern European/Scandaniavan type than, say, a Hispanic, is completely laughable - especially since I've been mistaken for a Mexican person before :P

At what point do these terms become meaningless bullshit and merely an excuse to divide into tribes, painting people as "the other"?

I'm still looking forward to seeing his movie, but jesus christ, is it that much to ask to keep politics (especially identity politics) out of every bit of art and entertainment we consume these days? To me this toxic shit just taints what's probably an otherwise good piece of art.

Movies are pretty much garbage when it comes to accurately depicting real diversity.  It's not even worth worrying about.  I've seen the bland amalgam known as "white" in Hollywood films and that's not me or the people I know.  Actually, being from the American South, I'm probably almost as used to being represented by complete stereotypes as many minorities.  

I kind of have the feeling that these people who think being white is this ludicrous one-size-fits-all experience are just really bland white people, themselves, and so blindingly suburban-middle-class average that they think they encapsulate all that is whiteness.  It's kind of amusing.  Then you take a look at some of those white people who are constantly wringing their hands over being white, and it's kind of fucking true, they do tend to look a lot like the bland white clones on TV.  Meanwhile, there is an absolute ton of diversity within "white people" that doesn't seem to count.  I mean, anyone who thinks "white" is a singular experience has to be just plain ignorant, right?  Oh, well.  People see what they want to see.



Peele’s comments aren’t what bother me. Tho I think his reasoning is a bit disingenuous. Peele is a black man, so he identifies with a black man more than a white man. So it’s natural he would rather tell a story about a black man. The thing that irritates the hell out of me is the fact that white male directors and creatives have that SAME natural inclination: to tell a story with a white male lead. But they have gotten blasted for this, from both minorities and women.

The reason so many stories are about white men is bc the majority of creatives and directors are white men. If women and other races want stories with them in the lead, how is it not their responsibility to create those stories?

The double standards, including in that article, are really quite ridiculous.



That's fine. Just keep making great movies.



pitzy272 said:

Peele’s comments aren’t what bother me. Tho I think his reasoning is a bit disingenuous. Peele is a black man, so he identifies with a black man more than a white man. So it’s natural he would rather tell a story about a black man. The thing that irritates the hell out of me is the fact that white male directors and creatives have that SAME natural inclination: to tell a story with a white male lead. But they have gotten blasted for this, from both minorities and women.

The reason so many stories are about white men is bc the majority of creatives and directors are white men. If women and other races want stories with them in the lead, how is it not their responsibility to create those stories?

The double standards, including in that article, are really quite ridiculous.

So now you have defined the problem, what is the solution, more diversity in those who get green lit to do movies.  The thing is, its not that most creatives and directors are white men, its that most creatives who get hired are white males.  There are a ton of creative people out there that are not white who do not get the budget to make movies that do not star white male leads.  The ones that do get a shot have to work very hard to get the recognitions, money and support which is what Peel is saying.

So when someone is trying to say, if a white man said this forgets that the white man is on the top still making decisions on who gets the opportunity to get invited to the dance so yes, it would be a scrutinized more even then context plays a big key in any comment.



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BanjoPickles said:
I may catch a written beating by saying this, but I don't see why what he's saying is a problem. He's absolutely right. The white lead trope has been done, and will continue to be done. I look at films the same way that I look at books: the auteur/author should be able to write what they wish without scrutiny. There are native American authors who have written amazing historical books--fiction, non-fiction, and everything in-between--centered around the Wounded Knee Massacre of 1892 (Fool's Crow), the mass integration of natives as they were tricked into selling their reservations in exchange for cramped apartments in the big cities (Roofwalker). People should write/film/record what they feel closest to, what haunts them, and what compels them to do their best work.

I don't see a racist statement. I see an artist discussing his process.

I have no issue with he wanting to cast only black people as I don't have issue with only white cast.

The point is that currently one is applauded and the other is criticized and ostracized.

Machiavellian said:
I will ask did the OP of this thread read the entire article. I guess you could take those comments out of context and paint it as some type of segregation or you could see it as this.

Peele made it clear that the opportunity to bring black people to a mainstream audience was simply one that he had to maximize because diversity wasn't prevalent in Hollywood in the past. "The way I look at it. I get to cast black people in my movies," he said. "I feel fortunate to be in this position where I can say to Universal, 'I want to make a $20 million horror movie with a black family.' And they say yes."

Either way, I highly doubt that there is a dearth of roles for white male actors where one director wanting to diversify the industry need to put a chip on each white person shoulders.

yes I did. only situation i read title only is if I think by the title it isn't worth reading or talking about. In threads I mostly will read all comments before or after my post as well, you can check this by seeing to how many different people I reply in threads.

Will you deny that if he had reverse the races on his comment media threatment would be different? And so you don't use a "but black people weren't represented before" we had plenty off purpousely made all black series and movies while rarely you'll see all white for the sake of being all white. And doing ghetto on casting to have only black is basically seggregation and either don't represent most daily situations or represent ghetto view.

Also would you say that if someone made a white only nba or any other sport because most significant players on current league aren't white would be well received?

RJ_Sizzle said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes, sure. And if someone said he wouldn't ever hire anyone that isn't white because it wouldn't fit the type of story he wants to tell, there would be 0 calls of racism right?

Just like that game that passed during medieval Bohemia and had one reviewer complaining of the lack of black people and that he had one history researcher confirm to him that there was a possibility that could have been a black person in that area.

Or just like a recent preview of Days Gone that started complaining that the lead was a white gruffy male.

Funny you say that, because in Brazil we have a president that his father in law is black and his best friend also is black, but is called racist. The VP is from black and indigenous heritage, and was claimed to be racist because he joked that his grandson is prettier because his skin was lighter.

People said Bolsonaro is racist because he said racist stuff in the past. That's his fault, that's kinda hard to put a cat back in the bag sometimes. Besides, having a black father-in-law and being half black isn't even remotely the same thing. 

sure isn't the same thing, and sure bolsonaro says a lot of dumb shit. Mourão is half black and is called racist same way. But the point on both being said is that when white or straight say they don't have prejudice because they have relatives or friends that are black or gay people laugh as weak justification, but here it is being accepted as truth.

AngryLittleAlchemist said:
DonFerrari said:

"Yes, sure. And if someone said he wouldn't ever hire anyone that isn't white because it wouldn't fit the type of story he wants to tell, there would be 0 calls of racism right?"

I mean, it's certainly fair to suspect possible racism if a director never hires people of different races as lead characters. But there are a lot of directors that simply want to get a point across that stretches their entire filmography, their prolific and mostly focus on a few core concepts. This is also Jordan Peele's 2nd movie ... so ... 

He is saying he won't hire white people, may be his 1st or 10th movie, he is saying future intentions. And I don't think he wanting to tell a story that is easily portrayed with black people is racist. I'm talking more on the media interpretation defending it while it would attack if was race reversed.

"Just like that game that passed during medieval Bohemia and had one reviewer complaining of the lack of black people and that he had one history researcher confirm to him that there was a possibility that could have been a black person in that area."

And I don't agree with that either? Neither did most people I imagine. In fact if you're criticizing the reviewer for that comment because black people do not make sense for that setting, I'm not really sure why you wouldn't at least consider Peele's point in this regard. It really feels to me like you brought up this contrast as a gotcha but didn't consider how it reflected on your own ideals. Granted, there's a difference between something being more historically accurate and something being a creative endeavor. But I'm not really sure why either, inherently, are wrong. 

On the Bohemia case, it was a case of historical accuracy being criticized because it didn't had diversity. Hardly a USA TODAY history would lack black or white unless forced or talked on ghetto situation. But again I have no issue with he showing only black (love My wife and kids, Fresh Prince, Everybody hates chris, and other all black or mostly black POV and cast). I'm talking about one case we having defense and the other attack for similar stuff (not that similar when accuracy and vision/choice are different stuff).

"Or just like a recent preview of Days Gone that started complaining that the lead was a white gruffy male."

I read that more so as a critique of generic tropes that make it harder to relate to or enjoy characters. Which is actually somewhat similar in-part to what Jordan was saying here. I think as much as we'd all like to pretend race doesn't exist, the skin color of characters kind of does relate to how generic they may be. It isn't nearly as important as writing or characterization (which ironically kind of was IGN's point when they later said how great the character was), but a character's design is ultimately something that goes in favor or against a character when it comes to how similar they are to other ones. 

I can understand and don't fully disagree that he was complaining about trope. Even though for me it's ridiculous to reduce a character to just color, gender and one behavior characteristic when it had plenty of other.

Like you can make 1 million different chars being white male gruffy and all could be very diverse as are people in our life. Is any of your white male friends equal to another?

Ryuu96 said:

Updated thread title and OP. Thread titles should accurately describe the subject content and in the future try not to only include a link, not saying to copy and paste the entire article but the parts that are important and relevant to the thread.

I guess I should thank you for making my thread yours, by changing title, OP and focus.

If I wanted to just post the new I would had done what you done. What I wanted was discuss the double standard when dealing with decision to hire or portray that seggregates.

pitzy272 said:

Peele’s comments aren’t what bother me. Tho I think his reasoning is a bit disingenuous. Peele is a black man, so he identifies with a black man more than a white man. So it’s natural he would rather tell a story about a black man. The thing that irritates the hell out of me is the fact that white male directors and creatives have that SAME natural inclination: to tell a story with a white male lead. But they have gotten blasted for this, from both minorities and women.

The reason so many stories are about white men is bc the majority of creatives and directors are white men. If women and other races want stories with them in the lead, how is it not their responsibility to create those stories?

The double standards, including in that article, are really quite ridiculous.

You basically got the idea and intention of the post. I have no issue with he talking about what he know and using chars that reflect as he saw when he had those experience. The point was to show that when he say he won't hire white people it is defended, when someone would say he won't hire black people (and wouldn't matter the reason) he would be attacked.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Ryuu96 said:
DonFerrari said:

I guess I should thank you for making my thread yours, by changing title, OP and focus.

If I wanted to just post the new I would had done what you done. What I wanted was discuss the double standard when dealing with decision to hire or portray that seggregates.

Would you rather I locked the thread instead for having a poor OP and title?

Your commentary is still in the OP at the bottom.

I can say for sure I have seem plenty of worse threads that didn't even got changed.

Threads with full copy and paste, or link only, no opinion or participation from OP that weren't touch by moderation.

Edit: and one thing is to edit title or OP for clarification (include rumor tag), etc, another is to basically change most of the content and focus.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Ryuu96 said:
DonFerrari said:

I can say for sure I have seem plenty of worse threads that didn't even got changed.

Threads with full copy and paste, or link only, no opinion or participation from OP that weren't touch by moderation.

I don't doubt that, we'll try to crack down more on that stuff (Since it's in the rules) especially for political geared threads in the future however your thread is the focus right now, the one reported and brought to our attention and the one being dealt with. Your commentary is still in the bottom of the thread, all I did was bring in important parts of the article that you are commenting on into the thread, If you have anymore issues then use PM.

Understood, if that is the way it is going to be now I'm fine with it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Machiavellian said:
I will ask did the OP of this thread read the entire article. I guess you could take those comments out of context and paint it as some type of segregation or you could see it as this.

Peele made it clear that the opportunity to bring black people to a mainstream audience was simply one that he had to maximize because diversity wasn't prevalent in Hollywood in the past. "The way I look at it. I get to cast black people in my movies," he said. "I feel fortunate to be in this position where I can say to Universal, 'I want to make a $20 million horror movie with a black family.' And they say yes."

Either way, I highly doubt that there is a dearth of roles for white male actors where one director wanting to diversify the industry need to put a chip on each white person shoulders.

yes I did. only situation i read title only is if I think by the title it isn't worth reading or talking about. In threads I mostly will read all comments before or after my post as well, you can check this by seeing to how many different people I reply in threads.

Will you deny that if he had reverse the races on his comment media threatment would be different? And so you don't use a "but black people weren't represented before" we had plenty off purpousely made all black series and movies while rarely you'll see all white for the sake of being all white. And doing ghetto on casting to have only black is basically seggregation and either don't represent most daily situations or represent ghetto view.

Also would you say that if someone made a white only nba or any other sport because most significant players on current league aren't white would be well received?

It would not make sense to reverse it because white people have been over represented while its the opposite for other races.

A white only NBA is a different scenario. Peele never said that he wont hire white people.  There will still be white people in his movies but they just wont be lead actors.



jason1637 said:
DonFerrari said:

yes I did. only situation i read title only is if I think by the title it isn't worth reading or talking about. In threads I mostly will read all comments before or after my post as well, you can check this by seeing to how many different people I reply in threads.

Will you deny that if he had reverse the races on his comment media threatment would be different? And so you don't use a "but black people weren't represented before" we had plenty off purpousely made all black series and movies while rarely you'll see all white for the sake of being all white. And doing ghetto on casting to have only black is basically seggregation and either don't represent most daily situations or represent ghetto view.

Also would you say that if someone made a white only nba or any other sport because most significant players on current league aren't white would be well received?

It would not make sense to reverse it because white people have been over represented while its the opposite for other races.

A white only NBA is a different scenario. Peele never said that he wont hire white people.  There will still be white people in his movies but they just wont be lead actors.

Ow great, so a little less seggregational.

Would really fly well on a company to say "it isn't that we won't hire black people, we just won't put they on senior leadership roles, there is plenty of janitorial work for them to do"



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."