By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
JRPGfan said:

Rome wasn't buildt in a day.
It appears hes working towards something like it, maybe he just needs another 4 years?

Also who says you are? Maybe its rigged as trump says? (just by him) (so your only haveing one in name)
Maybe your not, trump seems to want it cancelled until its safe to go vote (potentially years away, virus could be here awhile)

Hitler's regime basically was the second he was appointed, so now your comparison is working against you haha. I guess you must think Trump is some amazing god if he's going to achieve what no one else has in 200+ years with 0 resistance. I'll just let time do the talking now lol.



Around the Network
Lonely_Dolphin said:
JRPGfan said:

Rome wasn't buildt in a day.
It appears hes working towards something like it, maybe he just needs another 4 years?

Also who says you are? Maybe its rigged as trump says? (just by him) (so your only haveing one in name)
Maybe your not, trump seems to want it cancelled until its safe to go vote (potentially years away, virus could be here awhile)

Hitler's regime basically was the second he was appointed, so now your comparison is working against you haha. I guess you must think Trump is some amazing god if he's going to achieve what no one else has in 200+ years with 0 resistance. I'll just let time do the talking now lol.

He took total power like 2,5 years into his term.
So he didnt do it "the secound he was appointed".

Also he didnt want to do it, the fanataical backers of his, pushed him into it, he wanted to delay it.
Whos to say if he wasnt pushed into it, it wouldnt have been a few years lateron?

I honestly dont believe the outcome in the US, will allow for a facist dictator either.
However, alot of that comes down to the belief than when you see a candidate heading that direction, the avg americans wouldn't support him.

Theres alot of americans that still love trump.



Lonely_Dolphin said:
JRPGfan said:

Surround yourself with enough people (that believe as you do) in positions of power.
Theres no one left to throw you out forcefully.

You just need enough "yes people" in enough important places.
Look how he gets people to break the law, and lie under oath for him, and lateron just pardons them.

They know, they are above the system, and if enough of them, are in places of power and just hold together, it will be damned hard to get them off it.

All Trump has to do, is make a semi decentish enough arguement for why hes not vacateing the seat.
And his 40% or so base, will be enough that the remaning 60% that want to see him gone, probably cant.

In 1932, hitlers NSDAP party had 30,1% of the vote, with another party or two going along with him, they took power.
The point is, after they wanted him gone, they couldn't. Even though only 30% of the public perphaps supported the nazi's it was enough.

None of that answers my questions, if everyone in power supports trump, why are we not already a dictatorship and why are we having an election? This is also why your comparison to Hitler is flawed, both got elected, but only one actually turned their government fascist.

Like we're really going to uproot values we've maintained for 200+ years overnight for this snake of a man. It absolutely will not be as easy as you make it sound, there will be another civil war before we can ever become a dictatorship. Not everyone who votes for Trump is so infatuated with him that they'll give up their values and rights, so the number against him will be far more than the voting percentage.

I will say, the rigidity of the American political system makes a descent into a dictatorship fairly unlikely. The 22nd Amendment sets our term limits to two and in our highly polarized political environment, another Amendment simply isn't going to happen.

That said, the damage of fascism doesn't simply lie within a figure maintaining power for more than eight years. The damage is done through the ideology, not simply the power structure, and if we look at the traits of fascism, it is hard to not see it rising in today's America. Some examples:

1) A heavy focus on both nationalism and a mythic view of the past.

2) Propaganda, Anti-intellectualism and unreality

3) Heavy focus on law and order

4) Disregard for Human Rights

5) Identification of enemies as a unifying cause, often though the creation of out-groups/in-groups

It is through these traits, not simply through the dictatorship, that issues arise. It is through this creeping fascism that we have seen many horrible acts justified over the past four years and it is within these traits and this ideology, that the danger of four more years of Trump remains.



Rab said:
sundin13 said:

"We are just going to kick people out on the streets. That is Nancy Pelosi's plan, that is Donald Trump's plan."

But that isn't exactly true, is it?

The House (which you will recall is within Nancy Pelosi's purview) passed the HEROES Act back in May, which included hundreds of billions of dollars for housing and homelessness programs and extended the moratorium.

From the National Low Income Housing Coalition:

"Thanks to all of your advocacy and the support of our congressional champions, the proposal includes all of our top priorities, including $100 billion in emergency rental assistance through the “Emergency Rental Assistance Act and Rental Market Stabilization Act,” an additional $11.5 billion to prevent and respond to outbreaks among people experiencing homelessness, and a national, uniform moratorium on evictions for all renters. The bill also includes funding for 100,000 new emergency housing vouchers, $5 billion for Community Development Block Grants, more than $300 million for rural rental assistance, and additional funding for public housing and other HUD housing providers to help cover increased costs and adjust rental assistance for households with decreased incomes."

The House also passed the Emergency Housing Protections and Relief Act in June, which too included hundreds of billions of dollars for housing and extended the moratorium:

"[This bill] allocates $100 billion to emergency rental assistance programs, creates a $75 billion relief fund for homeowners and extends the eviction and foreclosure moratorium put in place by the CARES Act through March 2021"

Both of these bills went to the Senate and did not see debate.

Additionally, bills were introduced in the Senate, such as the Protecting Renters from Evictions and Fees Act proposed by Elizabeth Warren, which sought to extend the moratorium on evictions and extend it to cover all renters. This bill did not pass.

I'm kind of tired of people drawing these false equivalencies between the Democrats and the Republicans... Your video goes so far as to say that the reason this is happening is because people are voting Democrat. Honestly, fuck that guy. This shit would have passed months ago if the Democrats had control of the Senate.

These far-left "the democrats are evil" whingers are nothing more than pathetic grifters, who are doing nothing but telling progressives that it is their moral imperative to support Donald Trump. Him and his ilk can kindly go fuck themselves.

You must be living in lala land if you think the Est Dems are doing much of anything to help people, particularly the working poor, one example is M4A which they have fought against tooth and nail let alone student fees and pharmaceutical price hikes, the Est Dems like the Est Reps want the status quo to continue and support the military industrial complex, wall street and big business over small business and workers   

If you keep believing their BS your not one to be convinced, this shite has gone on too long for ignorance to be the reason 

They are doing better than they did a dozen years ago. I believe that the 1-2 punch of Bernie Sanders being surprisingly (well, for them at least) popular and the new wave of young politicians who favor much more left-leaning policies is pulling the democrats as a whole more to the left then they were at any point between 1990 and 2016.

Best sign for this is probably the HEROES Act, which would have:

  • Give $1.3T in financial aid to federal agencies as well as economic support for state and local government as well as to the tribal areas and US territories.
  • $485B for the expansion of the safety net, including unemployment benefits and Food Stamps as well as funding utilites payments and training for low income households and a 25% raise in benefits for disabled veterans
  • $435B in rebates, including another $1200 stimulus check for each individual.
  • $382B for healthcare including covering for COBRA premiums and reimbursing healthcare providers, enhance testing, tracing and treatment for Covid-19 and increased funding to agencies
  • $290B to support employee retention and modifying the paycheck protection program. This was also aimed at enabling and expanding paid leave.
  • $290B to reduce income tax
  • $191B Student loan relief and higher education funding
  • $202B for housing-related costs, including the establishment of emergency rental and homeowner funds, extension of the moratoriums on evictions and foreclosures for up to one year and expanding them to cover all cases, not just specific ones like in the CARES Act.
  • $190B as hazard pay for essential workers
  • Finally some smaller things, like 32 billions for communications (like the US Postal Services), 48 billions pension and retirement relief or 31 billions of agricultural reliefs.

While progressives understandably where riling against the $1200 stimulus check being a one-time payment again, you wouldn't have been able to get anything close to this through the house in the 30 years prior to this one. Sadly, it died in the republican-controlled senate, because it would have been a big step forward.



Bofferbrauer2 said:

They are doing better than they did a dozen years ago. I believe that the 1-2 punch of Bernie Sanders being surprisingly (well, for them at least) popular and the new wave of young politicians who favor much more left-leaning policies is pulling the democrats as a whole more to the left then they were at any point between 1990 and 2016.

Best sign for this is probably the HEROES Act, which would have:

  • Give $1.3T in financial aid to federal agencies as well as economic support for state and local government as well as to the tribal areas and US territories.
  • $485B for the expansion of the safety net, including unemployment benefits and Food Stamps as well as funding utilites payments and training for low income households and a 25% raise in benefits for disabled veterans
  • $435B in rebates, including another $1200 stimulus check for each individual.
  • $382B for healthcare including covering for COBRA premiums and reimbursing healthcare providers, enhance testing, tracing and treatment for Covid-19 and increased funding to agencies
  • $290B to support employee retention and modifying the paycheck protection program. This was also aimed at enabling and expanding paid leave.
  • $290B to reduce income tax
  • $191B Student loan relief and higher education funding
  • $202B for housing-related costs, including the establishment of emergency rental and homeowner funds, extension of the moratoriums on evictions and foreclosures for up to one year and expanding them to cover all cases, not just specific ones like in the CARES Act.
  • $190B as hazard pay for essential workers
  • Finally some smaller things, like 32 billions for communications (like the US Postal Services), 48 billions pension and retirement relief or 31 billions of agricultural reliefs.

While progressives understandably where riling against the $1200 stimulus check being a one-time payment again, you wouldn't have been able to get anything close to this through the house in the 30 years prior to this one. Sadly, it died in the republican-controlled senate, because it would have been a big step forward.

You are from Luxembourg, why do you know details like this?

Also it's unlikely there will be a third relief bill, the Republicans controls the senate. The americans already have a huge budget deficit and Republican senators are fiscally responsible, many of those senators don't wish to pass another relief bill.



6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

Around the Network
Trumpstyle said:

Also it's unlikely there will be a third relief bill, the Republicans controls the senate. The americans already have a huge budget deficit and Republican senators are fiscally responsible, many of those senators don't wish to pass another relief bill.

Fiscal responsibility tends to be something that the Republicans use to complain about liberal policies which goes right out the window as soon as they want to get something done.

That said, I believe the GOP has already agreed upon the next relief bill (Referred to as the HEALS Act) in the Senate which provides another $1,200 stimulus check nearly identical to the first. Unfortunately, it also includes some things which will likely create some issues between the House and the Senate. It reduces the weekly unemployment benefit bonus from $600/week to $200/week and this only lasts for two more months (I believe the House bill maintains it at $600 until the end of the year). It provides aid to schools however it conditions much of this aid on the schools physically reopening. It also provides liability protections for business to ensure that they are unable to get sued if their employees or customers get sick (the House bill instead favors employee rights).

Specifically in regards to housing, the HEALS Act does not extend the federal eviction moratorium and only provides $3.3billion for existing housing vouchers compared to the House bill which provides $100billion for rental assistance programs and extends the federal eviction moratorium for one year (and more).

It does seem likely that there will be another relief bill and it is likely to contain another round of stimulus checks similar to the first, however beyond that, we will see where the negotiations get us.



Trumpstyle said:

Republican senators are fiscally responsible



Trumpstyle said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

They are doing better than they did a dozen years ago. I believe that the 1-2 punch of Bernie Sanders being surprisingly (well, for them at least) popular and the new wave of young politicians who favor much more left-leaning policies is pulling the democrats as a whole more to the left then they were at any point between 1990 and 2016.

Best sign for this is probably the HEROES Act, which would have:

  • Give $1.3T in financial aid to federal agencies as well as economic support for state and local government as well as to the tribal areas and US territories.
  • $485B for the expansion of the safety net, including unemployment benefits and Food Stamps as well as funding utilites payments and training for low income households and a 25% raise in benefits for disabled veterans
  • $435B in rebates, including another $1200 stimulus check for each individual.
  • $382B for healthcare including covering for COBRA premiums and reimbursing healthcare providers, enhance testing, tracing and treatment for Covid-19 and increased funding to agencies
  • $290B to support employee retention and modifying the paycheck protection program. This was also aimed at enabling and expanding paid leave.
  • $290B to reduce income tax
  • $191B Student loan relief and higher education funding
  • $202B for housing-related costs, including the establishment of emergency rental and homeowner funds, extension of the moratoriums on evictions and foreclosures for up to one year and expanding them to cover all cases, not just specific ones like in the CARES Act.
  • $190B as hazard pay for essential workers
  • Finally some smaller things, like 32 billions for communications (like the US Postal Services), 48 billions pension and retirement relief or 31 billions of agricultural reliefs.

While progressives understandably where riling against the $1200 stimulus check being a one-time payment again, you wouldn't have been able to get anything close to this through the house in the 30 years prior to this one. Sadly, it died in the republican-controlled senate, because it would have been a big step forward.

You are from Luxembourg, why do you know details like this?

Also it's unlikely there will be a third relief bill, the Republicans controls the senate. The americans already have a huge budget deficit and Republican senators are fiscally responsible, many of those senators don't wish to pass another relief bill.

Many Luxembourgers are very invested into politics, and not just local ones. There's a reason why Luxembourg had had the most Presidents of the EU Commission (3, one more than France, Germany, or Italy), has so many EU institutions there, et cetera. We don't have a big army (there's a common joke here that if Germany wants to invade Luxembourg, they'd sent the firefighters from their closest city Trier), but we have great diplomats. The main reason is that because we're a small country, so our diplomats are our main line of defense and our way to get heard on the international stage.

It also shows in our education. For insttance, we didn't linger long on the civil war, WW1 or WW2 themselves, but spent quite some time on the political machinations and motivations behind those conflicts.

And yes, with the Republicans in the senate, I expect a deadlock until the election on that front.



forest-spirit said:
Rab said:

You must be living in lala land if you think the Est Dems are doing much of anything to help people, particularly the working poor, one example is M4A which they have fought against tooth and nail let alone student fees and pharmaceutical price hikes, the Est Dems like the Est Reps want the status quo to continue and support the military industrial complex, wall street and big business over small business and workers   

If you keep believing their BS your not one to be convinced, this shite has gone on too long for ignorance to be the reason 

Did you not read the post you quoted? He gave several examples of acts from the democrats that would help people, especially those struggling financially.

Didn't you watch the Democratic primaries unfold, their main line of questioning on any progressive idea was a Republican talking point "How much does it cost?", "What about choice?"  Yes the Est Dems will do small positive things when pushed, and are better than Reps, being the lesser of two evils (Many are sick of supporting this philosophy as it's a dead end)

Yet they have argued against all the big social systemic changes required to actually help people long term, they do posture for the short term vote with a hand out here and there, but they still want the status quo kept and attack anyone wanting long term change like those advocating for limiting the military, Medicare for All, permanently bring down pharm costs inline with other countries, stopping subsidies and bailouts for the rich, pushing for the Green new deal, eradicating higher education fees with crippling loans and so on

This issue has been talked on forever through the primaries, if you still don't get it, there is no hope in convincing you, you have bought into the BS supporting your view with scraps of decent short term policies supported by Dems in congress as proof all is great, it's not           

Last edited by Rab - on 02 August 2020

sundin13 said:
Rab said:

You must be living in lala land if you think the Est Dems are doing much of anything to help people, particularly the working poor, one example is M4A which they have fought against tooth and nail let alone student fees and pharmaceutical price hikes, the Est Dems like the Est Reps want the status quo to continue and support the military industrial complex, wall street and big business over small business and workers   

If you keep believing their BS your not one to be convinced, this shite has gone on too long for ignorance to be the reason 

As much as I support M4A, it isn't the only thing that exists in the universe. It isn't even the only healthcare plan which would provide a large amount of benefit relative to our current system. This "both sides" viewpoint only exists by blurring your eyes to the very real and very important differences between the two parties. The dems are not the same as the republicans. Period. The Dems in fact proposed multiple bills which would provide a large benefit in regards to the Housing crisis. The Republicans refused to even debate them.

Stop with these meaningless and ignorant false equivalencies. There are problems with the Democratic Party, but the only thing you accomplish by falsely yelling that both parties are the same, is another four years of Donald Trump (and to say that is fine as a means to an end I can only assume comes from a place of privileged as many have suffered under his policies these last four years, and through his judicial appointments, will likely continue to suffer for decades). Not voting blue isn't going to help anyone. That is a big part of why we are in this problem in the first place. Young progressives don't vote in high enough numbers, so they fail to elect their primary candidates and they fail to demonstrate to the party that they can be a valuable asset. Not voting just proves the "establishment" right and grifters like this are either so eager for that righteous indignation dollar that they sacrifice their integrity or have simply lost the plot.

Your vote shaming

Voting for the lesser of two evils only gets you bad policy

The Est Dems and Est Reps need to work for the vote not just expect it or they will never change, they are both very similar in that they want things to change very little as the current system benefits the rich nicely, leaving working people worse off forever (terrible/expensive healthcare, poor/expensive education, billions spent on the Military sending the poor to fight and die for the rich, pharmaceutical cost twice as high as other countries, compromised climate change policies that will lead to economic disaster particularly for the poor, over policing to point people don't feel safe anymore, a system that subsitises the Rich and wall street whilst telling the poor they must be rugged individualists)

There's a reason most Dems and Reps senators enrich themselves by the time they finish in office and beyond, they keep the status quo working nicely         

Denying them the vote sends a message, don't give it to them, make them earn it 

You think the US Dems track record hasn't got the US working people in this mess over decades of neglect, you think voting for the Est Dems will improve their performance, you think voting for the Est Dems will change their minds on M4A 

Last edited by Rab - on 02 August 2020