Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Report- MS working on 2 next-gen Scarlett family consoles for release Holiday 2020, handheld gaming peripherals with Razer

flashfire926 said:

Doesnt the OG xbox BC with 360 have a myriad of technical issues and problems?

Depends on the game. I haven't had to much drama though.
Xbox One backwards compatibility isn't always flawless either, even less so on the OG Xbox One. - I.E. When Halo: Reach was first made backwards compatible it was almost unplayable.

flashfire926 said:

Well yeah, those 57 games aren't worth enough themselves, but they are a huge bonus in addition to the current gen enhanced games that are already enhanced.

Don't get me wrong, anything is better than than nothing. (Sony/Nintendo's attempts thus far.)

flashfire926 said:

Though I still hope they add more OG Xbox games (GTA 3, Vice City, Burnout 3, Jet Set Radio Future, etc). 30 games is way too little , especially looking at the fact that we got 500+ 360 titles.

And the fact that the Xbox One X has been on the market for over a year now. Anyone hoping it would have a ton of backwards compatible games that are enhanced... Is probably disappointed.

EricHiggin said:

With speculation that Scarlet will launch around 2020, Next Gen may very well be what's coming after Navi.

I am hoping that the Next-Gen consoles are using AMD's next-gen GPU architecture... Because from a PC perspective it's all the same graphics generation.

Navi is just an evolutionary update to the same GPU found in the Xbox One launched in 2013 and PC GPU's from 2012, granted lots have changed since those days even for AMD's GPU's, but allot has also stayed the same.

shikamaru317 said:

That is possible, though I'm somewhat skeptical because AMD rarely meets their release targets (Navi was originally supposed to be early 2018 before getting delayed all the way to 2H 2019, so I kind of doubt that the "next-gen" GPU will make their 2020 target). Navi is the successor to Polaris, AMD's mid range GPU line, while "next-gen" will presumably be the successor to Vega, AMD's high end GPU line. So if Anaconda is using the next-gen successor to Vega rather than Navi, Anaconda should be a good bit more powerful than PS5 for sure, but also more expensive (we're probably talking $400 for PS5 vs $500 for Anaconda Holiday 2020). 

AMD's design of it's Next-Gen architecture shouldn't be far from being finished at this point. Navi is likely done.
GPU designs take years to think about, design and manufacture... So hopefully Microsoft/Sony can leverage that and use a design that is a little more forward thinking. (Like the Xbox 360 did.)

EricHiggin said:

True, but while not proven, is PS working with AMD on the overall Navi arch and is that part of the reason for it's delay? Maybe, maybe not.

Sony is working with AMD's custom-design division, not with AMD's GPU design division.
Navi is just an iterative update to Graphics Core Next, the same overall design as the base Xbox One, not a new ground-up design.

EricHiggin said:

If PS knows MS has decided to use that Next Gen arch, then it would make sense to try and take more time to bake some of that into Navi, like they did with Polaris and Vega in the Pro.

Provided that is even possible. Remember, Graphics Core Next is a modular design, so AMD can update one part of the GPU and leave the rest identical.
Vega and Polaris are still very much Graphics Core Next, so Sony and Microsoft could leverage the new blocks whilst keeping the rest of the hardware identical, which is fantastic for time-to-market and cost control.

We don't have any idea what approach they will be taking with their Next-Gen GPU architecture.

HollyGamer said:
Pemalite said:

Flops has no correspondence to a console generation.

Next gen consoles, if they use the same Graphics Core Next derived hardware is essentially all the same GPU generation from the PC's perspective.

I am not talking about the flops, i am talking about comparison to make it easy to compare so i wouldn't have to explain between console generation.  To be called premium like Xbox One X , Anaconda should have the power 5 to 6 times Lockhart. 

Again. Performance has no correspondence to a console generation or if it's a premium device.

Apple markets it's devices as premium... And yet is often beaten by Android alternatives in many aspects relating to it's hardware. (I.E. Ram and Displays)

What makes a premium device is a device that hasn't had corners cut... What makes the Xbox One X a premium device isn't it's performance (As it's only PC mid-range/low-end anyway) but because of the overall design, the fact it's using Vapor-Chamber cooling, it has a slim profile, it runs fairly quietly and has a stupidly efficient power supply/delivery system.

Personally, I don't believe AMD has any next-gen level of GPU hardware on the market yet, I will wait and see what Navi and Next Gen brings though.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 17 December 2018

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Pemalite said: 
HollyGamer said:

I am not talking about the flops, i am talking about comparison to make it easy to compare so i wouldn't have to explain between console generation.  To be called premium like Xbox One X , Anaconda should have the power 5 to 6 times Lockhart. 

Again. Performance has no correspondence to a console generation or if it's a premium device.

Apple markets it's devices as premium... And yet is often beaten by Android alternatives in many aspects relating to it's hardware. (I.E. Ram and Displays)

What makes a premium device is a device that hasn't had corners cut... What makes the Xbox One X a premium device isn't it's performance (As it's only PC mid-range/low-end anyway) but because of the overall design, the fact it's using Vapor-Chamber cooling, it has a slim profile, it runs fairly quietly and has a stupidly efficient power supply/delivery system.

Personally, I don't believe AMD has any next-gen level of GPU hardware on the market yet, I will wait and see what Navi and Next Gen brings though.

Ok , i am agree and disagree about performance , because we are here in this thread are  not talking about definition of generation. what i m trying to say is  Anaconda cannot be compared to Xbox One X  as premium device because Xbox One X is 4 to 5 times in terms of graphic capability compared to Xbox One. And that would be impossible to pull it out on the same year as the normal one (lockhart). The price 500 USD is another prove it wont be as premium or advance of leap in graphic capability.  And please stop bringing more discussion that out of topic. Because it will complicated the discussion. 



Pemalite said: 
HollyGamer said:

I am not talking about the flops, i am talking about comparison to make it easy to compare so i wouldn't have to explain between console generation.  To be called premium like Xbox One X , Anaconda should have the power 5 to 6 times Lockhart. 

What makes a premium device is a device that hasn't had corners cut... What makes the Xbox One X a premium device isn't it's performance (As it's only PC mid-range/low-end anyway) but because of the overall design, the fact it's using Vapor-Chamber cooling, it has a slim profile, it runs fairly quietly and has a stupidly efficient power supply/delivery system.

Personally, I don't believe AMD has any next-gen level of GPU hardware on the market yet, I will wait and see what Navi and Next Gen brings though.

So you are saying Xbox One X is not a premium consoles despite it's capability and better in performance compared to Xbox One? You comparing to PC, that does not make sense, I am comparing to Xbox One . What the hell are talking dude?   



Pemalite said:
flashfire926 said:

Actually, there are about 55 or so enhanced games. You forgot that all the OG xbox games are enhanced too, running at 1920p.

So... 57 games out of 563 titles are enhanced. (OG+360) Not a real significant number either way, certainly not worth jumping onto an Xbox One X for just yet as we have no idea how long this scheme will stick around.

The Xbox 360 at this point is probably the better device to play Original Xbox games anyway, it can play more Original Xbox titles... And those consoles can be picked up super cheaply.

The 360's emulation is not great. Doesn't look much better, worse performance in numerous games I've played, can be buggy, stick with an actual OG Xbox at that rate which is not expensive.

The X1's OG Xbox emulation is great even if it just has a few games you interested in. Much better performance, resolution, it becomes the definitive way to experience these games.



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for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

HollyGamer said:
Pemalite said: 

What makes a premium device is a device that hasn't had corners cut... What makes the Xbox One X a premium device isn't it's performance (As it's only PC mid-range/low-end anyway) but because of the overall design, the fact it's using Vapor-Chamber cooling, it has a slim profile, it runs fairly quietly and has a stupidly efficient power supply/delivery system.

Personally, I don't believe AMD has any next-gen level of GPU hardware on the market yet, I will wait and see what Navi and Next Gen brings though.

So you are saying Xbox One X is not a premium consoles despite it's capability and better in performance compared to Xbox One? You comparing to PC, that does not make sense, I am comparing to Xbox One . What the hell are talking dude?   

I've seen him do this before, he's trying to argue semantics but premium is an appropriate word.

Premium simply means superior, the X1X is that. A superior version of the X1.



Recently Completed
Gears 5
for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

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thismeintiel said:
shikamaru317 said:

Considering 2 of them are streaming boxes it shouldn't be too hard to explain the differences to people. Just name them smartly and clearly label on the boxes which ones are for streaming and which are normal consoles, and make sure to put 1080p on the Lockhart box and 4K on the Anaconda box. The goal seems to be making Xbox more like the Surface family, where they have the Surface, Surface Prop, Surface Book, Surface Laptop, Surface Studio, and Surface Hub product lines.

Both PS5 and Anaconda seem to be using Navi, as Brad Sams said that Anaconda is using a Ryzen 2 CPU and a "next-gen" AMD GPU. The next graphics generation for AMD after the current Vega is Navi. https://wccftech.com/xbox-scarlett-4k-60fps/ The report that said that Sony was designing Navi with AMD was never confirmed and I'm not even sure which insider leaked it. Brad Sams on the other hand has very good sources at MS, leaking multiple MS products over the years. Anaconda is either using Navi, or MS is working with AMD to design a fully custom AMD GPU rather than a semi-custom AMD GPU based on the PC Navi line. 

You're going to have 4 different SKUs, mostly likely with 4 different prices, with a bunch of writing (a mixture of 2 or more of these, "No Disc Drive" "Disc Games Do Not Work" "Streaming/Download Only" "Disc Drive Included" "Disk Games Work" "1080p Only" "4K Gaming") on the front of the box so as not to mislead consumers.  Then next to it you have the nice and simple all in one solution that is the PS5, just a picture of the console with minimal writing.  Which do you honestly think the average consumer is most likely to choose?

We'll have to wait and see exactly what "next-gen" actually means.  As for the leak, apparently it was multiple sources in AMD.  They say that was the reason that Raja Koduri, the person in charge of Vega development, left.  AMD was focusing more on making Navi with/for Sony, than the Vega line.  Which, if true, makes sense for AMD to do, frankly.  The PS4 is going to sell 100M+, which means 100M+ APUs sold for AMD.  PS5 is likely to repeat that success.

Stores may not want to sell discless versions, so you may only see a couple models in the stores, and those would be the typical console versions. I'm sure on the XB site they would have it all laid out with each being clearly it's own thing, whether by name or whatever, so to go online and order that model your kid said they wanted, shouldn't be a big deal for the most part.

If MS will have 3 or 4 models, I would imagine PS will have at least 2 so they can compete on price. Both having typical configurations, just one cheaper model and one 4k. They could even do a similar thing and make Pro the base model, with a Ryzen upgrade, sell it for less than the new XB1X, but for more than the streaming box, and try to upsell on the value proposition. Have the new Pro be the base/streaming model, and 4k be the standard edition PS5.

That way you would have 4 consoles between the brands in the next gen section of the store by the end of 2020, which wouldn't be any different than now. You would also have PS4 Slim somewhere in the mix, and discless XB1S for at least a few more years into next gen.



HollyGamer said:

So you are saying Xbox One X is not a premium consoles despite it's capability and better in performance compared to Xbox One? You comparing to PC, that does not make sense, I am comparing to Xbox One . What the hell are talking dude?   

I am saying that the Xbox One X is a Premium device because of reasons not related to performance or flops.
Otherwise... For every console generation, the most powerful console is the most premium one, when that simply isn't the case.

HollyGamer said:

what i m trying to say is  Anaconda cannot be compared to Xbox One X  as premium device because Xbox One X is 4 to 5 times in terms of graphic capability compared to Xbox One. And that would be impossible to pull it out on the same year as the normal one (lockhart). The price 500 USD is another prove it wont be as premium or advance of leap in graphic capability.

Why would it be impossible?

Mr Puggsly said:

The 360's emulation is not great. Doesn't look much better, worse performance in numerous games I've played, can be buggy, stick with an actual OG Xbox at that rate which is not expensive.

The Xbox 360's backwards compatibility is certainly hit or miss depending on the game.
Same holds true to backwards compatibility on the Xbox One... In-fact. That same statement holds true for any kind of emulation effort.

Games I enjoy, it's been fine... And certainly a step up over the Original Xbox due to the digital output which allows for a cleaner image.

Fact is... For playing Xbox 360 and original Xbox games, the Xbox 360 does have superior levels of compatibility to that of the Xbox One, that really cannot be disputed.

Mr Puggsly said:

The 360's emulation is not great. Doesn't look much better, worse performance in numerous games I've played, can be buggy, stick with an actual OG Xbox at that rate which is not expensive.

Never had much drama. Though, I tend to play Jurassic Park: Operation Genesis, Halo: CE, Fable etc'. - Issues are well documented though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_games_compatible_with_Xbox_360

I.E. Fable there is some "popping sounds" in places.

Mr Puggsly said:

I've seen him do this before, he's trying to argue semantics but premium is an appropriate word.

Premium simply means superior, the X1X is that. A superior version of the X1.

Pot. Meet kettle.

You are essentially agreeing with me.
Premium means something that is of higher quality and usually more expensive.
I.E. The launch Xbox One could have been seen as a "premium" device compared to the Playstation 4 due to it's higher ticket price, despite it's substantially inferior internal hardware.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/premium



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

I'll stay tuned ! XBox "Anaconda" should be really a beast, who knows if it will have similar specs of PS5, or even better, depends on price.

I can't wait for an official announcement. 360 was my last MS console, so I hope the Next Gen from MS will capture my attention again.



”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

shikamaru317 said:
HollyGamer said:
Scarlet, Anaconda, Lock hart??? I am confuse.

I believe Scarlet are the family names of all the future Xbox devices on one environment. One of the device will be Anaconda for premium one 500 USD (i bet it will not be that far from Lockhart spec) . The normal one will be Lockhart which is just another Xbox One X on slim factor that can play Anaconda games on 1080p .

The problem is for Anaconda , calling it premium is overstatement , because Xbox One X to Xbox One S tech is over 2 generation leap. Comparing Lockhart to Anaconda is just like comparing Xbox One to PS4. And cannot be compared to Xbox On to Xbox One X.

And also if LockHart is going to play Anaconda games at 1080 p games, why wouldn't they just release Anaconda games on Xbox One X and make it run at 1080p???

Yes, Scarlett is the family name for all next-gen Xbox projects it seems, while Lockhart is the weaker next-gen console and Anaconda is the stronger next-gen console. In terms of specs, Anaconda is rumored to be quite a bit above XB1 X and Lockhart actually, we've heard rumors of it having at least a 12 tflop Navi GPU, which is double the 6 tflop GPU in XB1 X on paper (and probably more than double in real world performance when you take architectural improvements on Navi into consideration), and I wouldn't be surprised if it has 16 GB of GDDR6 memory as opposed to 12 GB of GDDR5 in XB1 X and Lockhart.

Not sure what you mean on the 2nd paragraph.

Most likely because the weak Jaguar CPU in XB1 X can't handle next-gen games without causing framerate issues, we've already seen several current gen games having issues caused by the weak Jaguar CPU's, those issues will only be worse next-gen with games being optimized for the Ryzen CPU's in Anaconda and PS5. I'm assuming that Lockhart is going to have the XB1 X GPU and memory paired with a low-end Ryzen CPU which should prevent any CPU bottlenecks from happening. Lockhart kind of feels like a middle finger to XB1 X buyers for sure though, and it is exactly why MS should have used a Ryzen CPU in XB1 X to start with even if they had to sell at a small loss to do it, so that it could have played next-gen games at 1080p with no issues.

If what I gather is correct, this means Anaconda won't be a drastic improvement of the One X. It will only shore up on the only area where the X is lacking: CPU. Frame rate falls when the amount of NPCs is so high the current CPU becomes unwieldy (this is what led to the anomalous performance gap in games like Assassins' Creed or Fallout 4, where the best OG XONE rig often performed better than the PS4 despite the GPU and unified RAM). 

Not to mention, if they approach AMD now, they can secure a good deal for a "maxed out" rig to assemble into the new console and thus bar Sony from having superior hardware next gen, because going further will end up costing a lot more. 

I am just glad they've decided to stick around. My gaming future would've been sad if they left. Without Origin, Sony, Nintendo and Steam, the only option left is MS. 



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