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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Report- MS working on 2 next-gen Scarlett family consoles for release Holiday 2020, handheld gaming peripherals with Razer

Cerebralbore101 said:
Pemalite said: 

Only a very tiny amount (25~ games in total out of 530~) of backwards compatible games run at a higher resolution on the Xbox One X.

 

I looked all over and couldn't find a complete list. Care to post one? 

Edit: Nevermind I found it. https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/backward-compatibility Pretty underwhelming list. 

In addition to these 25, the 30 OG games are all enhanced as well.



Bet with Intrinsic:

The Switch will outsell 3DS (based on VGchartz numbers), according to me, while Intrinsic thinks the opposite will hold true. One month avatar control for the loser's avatar.

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shikamaru317 said:
thismeintiel said:

4 SKUs?  I'm going to go with alienate it.  This is a similar problem Steam Box faced.  Instead of a nice simple launch, they had multiple SKUs by different manufacturers.  I mean, retailers are going to have to take a stinking course just to know the differences.  Good luck passing that info on to your average consumer.  And then there will be a simple $399 PS5 SKU sitting next to all that confusion.  I think most would just say screw it and grab the PS5.

Also, the OP mentions Navi for the XB2.  I'm thinking they may have to go with Vega.  If AMD is truly working as closely with Sony in creating at least the first round of Navi GPUs as insiders have stated, I just don't see Sony being fine with them handing that tech right over to their competitors.  I would think Sony would have a console exclusivity agreement on that for at least a year or two.

Considering 2 of them are streaming boxes it shouldn't be too hard to explain the differences to people. Just name them smartly and clearly label on the boxes which ones are for streaming and which are normal consoles, and make sure to put 1080p on the Lockhart box and 4K on the Anaconda box. The goal seems to be making Xbox more like the Surface family, where they have the Surface, Surface Prop, Surface Book, Surface Laptop, Surface Studio, and Surface Hub product lines.

Both PS5 and Anaconda seem to be using Navi, as Brad Sams said that Anaconda is using a Ryzen 2 CPU and a "next-gen" AMD GPU. The next graphics generation for AMD after the current Vega is Navi. https://wccftech.com/xbox-scarlett-4k-60fps/ The report that said that Sony was designing Navi with AMD was never confirmed and I'm not even sure which insider leaked it. Brad Sams on the other hand has very good sources at MS, leaking multiple MS products over the years. 

With speculation that Scarlet will launch around 2020, Next Gen may very well be what's coming after Navi.



Is it me or the less powerful Xbox console will just hold back the graphical quality of the exclusives that will be on both consoles? Just like the Xbox One does to the Xbox One X.



shikamaru317 said:
EricHiggin said:

With speculation that Scarlet will launch around 2020, next gen may very well be what's coming after Navi.

That is possible, though I'm somewhat skeptical because AMD rarely meets their release targets (Navi was originally supposed to be early 2018 before getting delayed all the way to 2H 2019, so I kind of doubt that the "next-gen" GPU will make their 2020 target). Navi is the successor to Polaris, AMD's mid range GPU line, while "next-gen" will presumably be the successor to Vega, AMD's high end GPU line. So if Anaconda is using the next-gen successor to Vega rather than Navi, Anaconda should be a good bit more powerful than PS5 for sure, but also more expensive (we're probably talking $400 for PS5 vs $500 for Anaconda Holiday 2020). 

True, but while not proven, is PS working with AMD on the overall Navi arch and is that part of the reason for it's delay? Maybe, maybe not. If PS knows MS has decided to use that Next Gen arch, then it would make sense to try and take more time to bake some of that into Navi, like they did with Polaris and Vega in the Pro. Next Gen from AMD is supposed to be a leap passed GCN. Navi is supposed to be either another improvement on GCN beyond Vega, or somewhat of a hybrid between GCN and Next Gen. If Scarlet is using the Next Gen arch, then yes, it should be another similar situation to Pro and XB1X in terms of launch, specs, and price. 



shikamaru317 said:
thismeintiel said:

4 SKUs?  I'm going to go with alienate it.  This is a similar problem Steam Box faced.  Instead of a nice simple launch, they had multiple SKUs by different manufacturers.  I mean, retailers are going to have to take a stinking course just to know the differences.  Good luck passing that info on to your average consumer.  And then there will be a simple $399 PS5 SKU sitting next to all that confusion.  I think most would just say screw it and grab the PS5.

Also, the OP mentions Navi for the XB2.  I'm thinking they may have to go with Vega.  If AMD is truly working as closely with Sony in creating at least the first round of Navi GPUs as insiders have stated, I just don't see Sony being fine with them handing that tech right over to their competitors.  I would think Sony would have a console exclusivity agreement on that for at least a year or two.

Considering 2 of them are streaming boxes it shouldn't be too hard to explain the differences to people. Just name them smartly and clearly label on the boxes which ones are for streaming and which are normal consoles, and make sure to put 1080p on the Lockhart box and 4K on the Anaconda box. The goal seems to be making Xbox more like the Surface family, where they have the Surface, Surface Prop, Surface Book, Surface Laptop, Surface Studio, and Surface Hub product lines.

Both PS5 and Anaconda seem to be using Navi, as Brad Sams said that Anaconda is using a Ryzen 2 CPU and a "next-gen" AMD GPU. The next graphics generation for AMD after the current Vega is Navi. https://wccftech.com/xbox-scarlett-4k-60fps/ The report that said that Sony was designing Navi with AMD was never confirmed and I'm not even sure which insider leaked it. Brad Sams on the other hand has very good sources at MS, leaking multiple MS products over the years. Anaconda is either using Navi, or MS is working with AMD to design a fully custom AMD GPU rather than a semi-custom AMD GPU based on the PC Navi line. 

You're going to have 4 different SKUs, mostly likely with 4 different prices, with a bunch of writing (a mixture of 2 or more of these, "No Disc Drive" "Disc Games Do Not Work" "Streaming/Download Only" "Disc Drive Included" "Disk Games Work" "1080p Only" "4K Gaming") on the front of the box so as not to mislead consumers.  Then next to it you have the nice and simple all in one solution that is the PS5, just a picture of the console with minimal writing.  Which do you honestly think the average consumer is most likely to choose?

We'll have to wait and see exactly what "next-gen" actually means.  As for the leak, apparently it was multiple sources in AMD.  They say that was the reason that Raja Koduri, the person in charge of Vega development, left.  AMD was focusing more on making Navi with/for Sony, than the Vega line.  Which, if true, makes sense for AMD to do, frankly.  The PS4 is going to sell 100M+, which means 100M+ APUs sold for AMD.  PS5 is likely to repeat that success.



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thismeintiel said:

 Which do you honestly think the average consumer is most likely to choose?

At the start of this generation, consumers chose the console with the lowest price point.  Gamers have proven time and time again to be very price-sensitive when it comes to hardware purchases.  So, if one of these Xbox devices is cheaper than the lowest cost PlayStation 5, that will certainly go a long way to driving Xbox sales.  

Of course, Sony knows this.  So, they very well may do something similar.  



wrong post, beginner here 



Pemalite said:
HollyGamer said:

Trying to comparing Anaconda to  Xbox One X  is not correct , because Xbox Scorpio (X) technology to the original Xbox One is 2 generation leap . It means to be comparable and to be called premium it need two generational leap like Xbox One X is. Remember Xbox One is 1,3 teraflpo with the price 300 USD while Xbox One X is 6 teraflop with  500 USD in 4 years gap.  

Anaconda can be called premium if it 4 years gap , it's not just the price. But they can make it premium if it's price around 1000 USD. Because Xbox One X if it was released in 2013 it would have been price around 1000 USD. 

Flops has no correspondence to a console generation.

Next gen consoles, if they use the same Graphics Core Next derived hardware is essentially all the same GPU generation from the PC's perspective.

I am not talking about the flops, i am talking about comparison to make it easy to compare so i wouldn't have to explain between console generation.  To be called premium like Xbox One X , Anaconda should have the power 5 to 6 times Lockhart. 



shikamaru317 said:
Maat said:
Is it me or the less powerful Xbox console will just hold back the graphical quality of the exclusives that will be on both consoles? Just like the Xbox One does to the Xbox One X.

It shouldn't. If the rumors are true about the specs, Lockhart should be just powerful enough to play games at 1080p that PS5 and Anaconda plays at 4K, with no other graphical downgrades beyond the lower resolution. It therefore shouldn't hold back graphics quality at all, for exclusives or multiplat games. 

Oh I get it now. But still skeptical about the next end-gen games performance.



flashfire926 said:

Doesnt the OG xbox BC with 360 have a myriad of technical issues and problems?

Depends on the game. I haven't had to much drama though.
Xbox One backwards compatibility isn't always flawless either, even less so on the OG Xbox One. - I.E. When Halo: Reach was first made backwards compatible it was almost unplayable.

flashfire926 said:

Well yeah, those 57 games aren't worth enough themselves, but they are a huge bonus in addition to the current gen enhanced games that are already enhanced.

Don't get me wrong, anything is better than than nothing. (Sony/Nintendo's attempts thus far.)

flashfire926 said:

Though I still hope they add more OG Xbox games (GTA 3, Vice City, Burnout 3, Jet Set Radio Future, etc). 30 games is way too little , especially looking at the fact that we got 500+ 360 titles.

And the fact that the Xbox One X has been on the market for over a year now. Anyone hoping it would have a ton of backwards compatible games that are enhanced... Is probably disappointed.

EricHiggin said:

With speculation that Scarlet will launch around 2020, Next Gen may very well be what's coming after Navi.

I am hoping that the Next-Gen consoles are using AMD's next-gen GPU architecture... Because from a PC perspective it's all the same graphics generation.

Navi is just an evolutionary update to the same GPU found in the Xbox One launched in 2013 and PC GPU's from 2012, granted lots have changed since those days even for AMD's GPU's, but allot has also stayed the same.

shikamaru317 said:

That is possible, though I'm somewhat skeptical because AMD rarely meets their release targets (Navi was originally supposed to be early 2018 before getting delayed all the way to 2H 2019, so I kind of doubt that the "next-gen" GPU will make their 2020 target). Navi is the successor to Polaris, AMD's mid range GPU line, while "next-gen" will presumably be the successor to Vega, AMD's high end GPU line. So if Anaconda is using the next-gen successor to Vega rather than Navi, Anaconda should be a good bit more powerful than PS5 for sure, but also more expensive (we're probably talking $400 for PS5 vs $500 for Anaconda Holiday 2020). 

AMD's design of it's Next-Gen architecture shouldn't be far from being finished at this point. Navi is likely done.
GPU designs take years to think about, design and manufacture... So hopefully Microsoft/Sony can leverage that and use a design that is a little more forward thinking. (Like the Xbox 360 did.)

EricHiggin said:

True, but while not proven, is PS working with AMD on the overall Navi arch and is that part of the reason for it's delay? Maybe, maybe not.

Sony is working with AMD's custom-design division, not with AMD's GPU design division.
Navi is just an iterative update to Graphics Core Next, the same overall design as the base Xbox One, not a new ground-up design.

EricHiggin said:

If PS knows MS has decided to use that Next Gen arch, then it would make sense to try and take more time to bake some of that into Navi, like they did with Polaris and Vega in the Pro.

Provided that is even possible. Remember, Graphics Core Next is a modular design, so AMD can update one part of the GPU and leave the rest identical.
Vega and Polaris are still very much Graphics Core Next, so Sony and Microsoft could leverage the new blocks whilst keeping the rest of the hardware identical, which is fantastic for time-to-market and cost control.

We don't have any idea what approach they will be taking with their Next-Gen GPU architecture.

HollyGamer said:
Pemalite said:

Flops has no correspondence to a console generation.

Next gen consoles, if they use the same Graphics Core Next derived hardware is essentially all the same GPU generation from the PC's perspective.

I am not talking about the flops, i am talking about comparison to make it easy to compare so i wouldn't have to explain between console generation.  To be called premium like Xbox One X , Anaconda should have the power 5 to 6 times Lockhart. 

Again. Performance has no correspondence to a console generation or if it's a premium device.

Apple markets it's devices as premium... And yet is often beaten by Android alternatives in many aspects relating to it's hardware. (I.E. Ram and Displays)

What makes a premium device is a device that hasn't had corners cut... What makes the Xbox One X a premium device isn't it's performance (As it's only PC mid-range/low-end anyway) but because of the overall design, the fact it's using Vapor-Chamber cooling, it has a slim profile, it runs fairly quietly and has a stupidly efficient power supply/delivery system.

Personally, I don't believe AMD has any next-gen level of GPU hardware on the market yet, I will wait and see what Navi and Next Gen brings though.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 17 December 2018

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