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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox One Reaches 40 Million Total Sales

smroadkill15 said:
Overall, solid numbers. Still not what MS would be hoping for by this time. If they didn't have that terrible reveal/PR in 2013, who knows how this gen would have turned out. Sony likely would have won, but it would've been closer. MS had a hard pill to swallow this gen. At least like they are on the right track going forward.

They didn't drop much on their main markets (USA and UK), in fact they tracked ahead on those for about 3 years, so how would you explain almost zero impact on their main markets with they dropping dead everywhere else? Did only people outside of USA and UK watch the presentation?

smroadkill15 said:
DonFerrari said:

PS3 had a much worse reveal, price and time to cut down costs... still outsold the competitor that had more time on the market, more games available upfront, lower price and all.

Not even close man. Sony's was like, them lighting the kitchen on fire, but putting it out before it got too out of hand. While MS tried to use oil (Don Mattrick) to put the fire out, but made it worse, and had to call the fire department (Phil Spencer) to put it out. That is probably a terrible analogy, but my point is, MS was worse. 

They took several years to be able to put the price on market acceptance while never being cheaper than X360. X1 solved most of the issues even before release (always online, DRM, TV, etc), had more exclusives at launch and before even 1 year in the market always sold cheaper than PS4.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Around the Network

And yet even when the price was beyond “market acceptance”, the PS3 was still on pace from day one to outsell the 360. So clearly Sony didn’t fuck it up that badly. They’d built up a big enough fan base with the PS1 and PS2 that even a big flub like that launch price was not that big of a deal.

And no, MS didn’t solve most of their issues before launch. Their biggest market is the US and even years after launch it wasn’t uncommon here for people to think the Xbox could not play used games and that you couldn’t rent games out of Redbox etc or sell your old games. The gen was destroyed for MS by their own blunder combined with Sony playing it very safe and perfect in response.



LudicrousSpeed said:
And yet even when the price was beyond “market acceptance”, the PS3 was still on pace from day one to outsell the 360. So clearly Sony didn’t fuck it up that badly. They’d built up a big enough fan base with the PS1 and PS2 that even a big flub like that launch price was not that big of a deal.

And no, MS didn’t solve most of their issues before launch. Their biggest market is the US and even years after launch it wasn’t uncommon here for people to think the Xbox could not play used games and that you couldn’t rent games out of Redbox etc or sell your old games. The gen was destroyed for MS by their own blunder combined with Sony playing it very safe and perfect in response.

And X1 have kept pace to outsell X360 on USA for over 3 years... while PS3 never was in Pace to outsell PS2 anywhere.

So your tryout to disprove just reinforce.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
smroadkill15 said:
Overall, solid numbers. Still not what MS would be hoping for by this time. If they didn't have that terrible reveal/PR in 2013, who knows how this gen would have turned out. Sony likely would have won, but it would've been closer. MS had a hard pill to swallow this gen. At least like they are on the right track going forward.

They didn't drop much on their main markets (USA and UK), in fact they tracked ahead on those for about 3 years, so how would you explain almost zero impact on their main markets with they dropping dead everywhere else? Did only people outside of USA and UK watch the presentation?


They took several years to be able to put the price on market acceptance while never being cheaper than X360. X1 solved most of the issues even before release (always online, DRM, TV, etc), had more exclusives at launch and before even 1 year in the market always sold cheaper than PS4.

There are way more dedicated xbox fans in the USA than anywhere else. It's the only reason why is sold well in the USA initial. Xbox isn't nearly as popular in the rest of the world to begin with compared to Sony, so once Xbox lost most of them, it was over, and they went to the PS4 instead. 

It doesn't matter. Once that word of mouth spread about what the X1 was doing, people jumped ship. I knew people that didn't even know X1 fixed most of the issues, 2 years later. The damage had already been done.  



smroadkill15 said:
DonFerrari said:

They didn't drop much on their main markets (USA and UK), in fact they tracked ahead on those for about 3 years, so how would you explain almost zero impact on their main markets with they dropping dead everywhere else? Did only people outside of USA and UK watch the presentation?


They took several years to be able to put the price on market acceptance while never being cheaper than X360. X1 solved most of the issues even before release (always online, DRM, TV, etc), had more exclusives at launch and before even 1 year in the market always sold cheaper than PS4.

There are way more dedicated xbox fans in the USA than anywhere else. It's the only reason why is sold well in the USA initial. Xbox isn't nearly as popular in the rest of the world to begin with compared to Sony, so once Xbox lost most of them, it was over, and they went to the PS4 instead. 

It doesn't matter. Once that word of mouth spread about what the X1 was doing, people jumped ship. I knew people that didn't even know X1 fixed most of the issues, 2 years later. The damage had already been done.  

So basically you are agreeing that where Xbox was going to do good it did (USA+UK) regardless of the bad reveal? Now you just need to accept that where it did bad it would have done bad anyway because PS4 was the console to be had.

You can't talk about a turnaround when looking at 2 areas, one have been doing good (and then dropped) which was USA+UK tracking ahead of X360 and the other one was doing bad and kept doing bad (everywhere besides USA+UK). So where did the turnaround came from?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Around the Network
smroadkill15 said:
DonFerrari said:

They didn't drop much on their main markets (USA and UK), in fact they tracked ahead on those for about 3 years, so how would you explain almost zero impact on their main markets with they dropping dead everywhere else? Did only people outside of USA and UK watch the presentation?


They took several years to be able to put the price on market acceptance while never being cheaper than X360. X1 solved most of the issues even before release (always online, DRM, TV, etc), had more exclusives at launch and before even 1 year in the market always sold cheaper than PS4.

There are way more dedicated xbox fans in the USA than anywhere else. It's the only reason why is sold well in the USA initial. Xbox isn't nearly as popular in the rest of the world to begin with compared to Sony, so once Xbox lost most of them, it was over, and they went to the PS4 instead. 

It doesn't matter. Once that word of mouth spread about what the X1 was doing, people jumped ship. I knew people that didn't even know X1 fixed most of the issues, 2 years later. The damage had already been done.  

I don't think he lives in the US so he doesn't really understand how disastrous the reveal was in Microsoft's biggest territory.

It took years just for the average Joe to understand you didn't need to be online at all times and that you could buy/sell used games. And then all you were left with was a weaker console at a similar price, and the PS4 had already become the mainstream console in the US by that time so a lot of people just went with what their friends had.

He's not applying any context to the reveals at all, which is where his mistake is. Sony built up a giant fanbase with PSone and PS2. Playstation is a more well known worldwide brand. They can afford a fuck up like $600 and have it not kill their product, see: PS3. Even if he was right that the PS3 reveal and launch was worse than Xbone (it wasn't), that still doesn't mean it was as damaging to the brand as the Xbone reveal was to Xbox, which was the point the user he quoted was making anyway.



DonFerrari said:
smroadkill15 said:
Overall, solid numbers. Still not what MS would be hoping for by this time. If they didn't have that terrible reveal/PR in 2013, who knows how this gen would have turned out. Sony likely would have won, but it would've been closer. MS had a hard pill to swallow this gen. At least like they are on the right track going forward.

They didn't drop much on their main markets (USA and UK), in fact they tracked ahead on those for about 3 years, so how would you explain almost zero impact on their main markets with they dropping dead everywhere else? Did only people outside of USA and UK watch the presentation?

smroadkill15 said:

Not even close man. Sony's was like, them lighting the kitchen on fire, but putting it out before it got too out of hand. While MS tried to use oil (Don Mattrick) to put the fire out, but made it worse, and had to call the fire department (Phil Spencer) to put it out. That is probably a terrible analogy, but my point is, MS was worse. 

They took several years to be able to put the price on market acceptance while never being cheaper than X360. X1 solved most of the issues even before release (always online, DRM, TV, etc), had more exclusives at launch and before even 1 year in the market always sold cheaper than PS4.

The market for consoles is constantly growing and you seem to have forgotten about the WiiU. With WiiU being a total flop there were only two major players in the consoles market during the start of PS4/X1 generation. 

Sony built well deserve brand recognition from their PS1 and PS2 era and once the PS3 reach price parity with the 360, they clawed their way back to eventually won that generation.
Mostly because their dominance in the Asian market and they have a very strong foothold in Europe/USA/World.  They been the market leader for last three generation (Yes, I'm ignoring the Wii since that console mainly capture a fickle casual market that bought the console mostly for Wii Sport). Only reason Microsoft even had a moment to shine with 360 was because of PS3 awful price point at launch.  PS3 was always slightly more powerful and feature a blu-ray players which explain why the console was always more expensive.

X1 never solve the main issue until they release the Xbox one S(slightly less powerful but offers feature that make it on par with PS4), there consoles was less powerful and they tried to sell it at higher price since it included a peripheral that no one wanted. X1 also never won the exclusives at launch because they ignored indies. There is no way X1 can recover in market they were never strong trying to sell an inferior product compare to Sony.  Phil Spencer and his team has done an amazing job putting out all the fires and really offering value to their customers that Sony can't match or doesn't care to match. Xbox Play anywhere, Xbox game pass, backward compatibility & EA Access. 



Tommy Jean, CPA, CGA

DonFerrari said:
smroadkill15 said:

There are way more dedicated xbox fans in the USA than anywhere else. It's the only reason why is sold well in the USA initial. Xbox isn't nearly as popular in the rest of the world to begin with compared to Sony, so once Xbox lost most of them, it was over, and they went to the PS4 instead. 

It doesn't matter. Once that word of mouth spread about what the X1 was doing, people jumped ship. I knew people that didn't even know X1 fixed most of the issues, 2 years later. The damage had already been done.  

So basically you are agreeing that where Xbox was going to do good it did (USA+UK) regardless of the bad reveal? Now you just need to accept that where it did bad it would have done bad anyway because PS4 was the console to be had.

You can't talk about a turnaround when looking at 2 areas, one have been doing good (and then dropped) which was USA+UK tracking ahead of X360 and the other one was doing bad and kept doing bad (everywhere besides USA+UK). So where did the turnaround came from?

It didn't do good though for MS standards. There were just enough hardcore Xbox fans in the USA to make it not look as bad at launch because they knew about the changes. The casual players who go for the more popular/appealing system went to the ps4. Sales for the X1 are much lower than anything MS was hoping for in the USA and the rest of the world. I need to accept the fact?? I already said the Ps4 would have won the generation regardless, but sales would be a lot closer than it is now. 

I'm just stating, the reveal of the X1 was much worse for Xbox than the reveal of the Ps3, and had a much bigger impact on X1 sales. The head of Xbox (Don) left MS shortly after the reveal. That is proof enough lol. The Ps3 last gen had to go up against the Xbox 360 and Wii. Sales for the Ps3 were not going to reach ps2 numbers regardless of reveal due to those actually being good selling consoles. Ps4 went up against the WiiU and Xbox One. I don't even think I need to say anything lol. 

I'm done talking about this. Nothing will change your opinion, even though everyone else in this thread agrees the X1 reveal was worse/more impactful.  

Last edited by smroadkill15 - on 14 December 2018

smroadkill15 said:
DonFerrari said:

So basically you are agreeing that where Xbox was going to do good it did (USA+UK) regardless of the bad reveal? Now you just need to accept that where it did bad it would have done bad anyway because PS4 was the console to be had.

You can't talk about a turnaround when looking at 2 areas, one have been doing good (and then dropped) which was USA+UK tracking ahead of X360 and the other one was doing bad and kept doing bad (everywhere besides USA+UK). So where did the turnaround came from?

It didn't do good though for MS standards. There were just enough hardcore Xbox fans in the USA to make it not look as bad at launch because they knew about the changes. The casual players who go for the more popular/appealing system went to the ps4. Sales for the X1 are much lower than anything MS was hoping for in the USA and the rest of the world. I need to accept the fact?? I already said the Ps4 would have won the generation regardless, but sales would be a lot closer than it is now. 

I'm just stating, the reveal of the X1 was much worse for Xbox than the reveal of the Ps4, and had a much bigger impact on X1 sales. The head of Xbox (Don) left MS shortly after the reveal. That is proof enough lol. The Ps3 last gen had to go up against the Xbox 360 and Wii. Sales for the Ps3 were not going to reach ps2 numbers regardless of reveal due to those actually being good selling consoles. Ps4 went up against the WiiU and Xbox One. I don't even think I need to say anything lol. 

^This. The Switch is the closest thing to competition the PS4 has had this gen. A system that came out 3 and a half years later than the PS4. 



LudicrousSpeed said:
smroadkill15 said:

There are way more dedicated xbox fans in the USA than anywhere else. It's the only reason why is sold well in the USA initial. Xbox isn't nearly as popular in the rest of the world to begin with compared to Sony, so once Xbox lost most of them, it was over, and they went to the PS4 instead. 

It doesn't matter. Once that word of mouth spread about what the X1 was doing, people jumped ship. I knew people that didn't even know X1 fixed most of the issues, 2 years later. The damage had already been done.  

I don't think he lives in the US so he doesn't really understand how disastrous the reveal was in Microsoft's biggest territory.

It took years just for the average Joe to understand you didn't need to be online at all times and that you could buy/sell used games. And then all you were left with was a weaker console at a similar price, and the PS4 had already become the mainstream console in the US by that time so a lot of people just went with what their friends had.

He's not applying any context to the reveals at all, which is where his mistake is. Sony built up a giant fanbase with PSone and PS2. Playstation is a more well known worldwide brand. They can afford a fuck up like $600 and have it not kill their product, see: PS3. Even if he was right that the PS3 reveal and launch was worse than Xbone (it wasn't), that still doesn't mean it was as damaging to the brand as the Xbone reveal was to Xbox, which was the point the user he quoted was making anyway.

So explain to me how it tracked ahead of X360 for 3 years.

yvanjean said:
DonFerrari said:

They didn't drop much on their main markets (USA and UK), in fact they tracked ahead on those for about 3 years, so how would you explain almost zero impact on their main markets with they dropping dead everywhere else? Did only people outside of USA and UK watch the presentation?

They took several years to be able to put the price on market acceptance while never being cheaper than X360. X1 solved most of the issues even before release (always online, DRM, TV, etc), had more exclusives at launch and before even 1 year in the market always sold cheaper than PS4.

The market for consoles is constantly growing and you seem to have forgotten about the WiiU. With WiiU being a total flop there were only two major players in the consoles market during the start of PS4/X1 generation. 

Sony built well deserve brand recognition from their PS1 and PS2 era and once the PS3 reach price parity with the 360, they clawed their way back to eventually won that generation.
Mostly because their dominance in the Asian market and they have a very strong foothold in Europe/USA/World.  They been the market leader for last three generation (Yes, I'm ignoring the Wii since that console mainly capture a fickle casual market that bought the console mostly for Wii Sport). Only reason Microsoft even had a moment to shine with 360 was because of PS3 awful price point at launch.  PS3 was always slightly more powerful and feature a blu-ray players which explain why the console was always more expensive.

X1 never solve the main issue until they release the Xbox one S(slightly less powerful but offers feature that make it on par with PS4), there consoles was less powerful and they tried to sell it at higher price since it included a peripheral that no one wanted. X1 also never won the exclusives at launch because they ignored indies. There is no way X1 can recover in market they were never strong trying to sell an inferior product compare to Sony.  Phil Spencer and his team has done an amazing job putting out all the fires and really offering value to their customers that Sony can't match or doesn't care to match. Xbox Play anywhere, Xbox game pass, backward compatibility & EA Access. 

Although PS3 was slightly more powerful, the image of worse and without games have been held for more than half the gen because of the poor ports.

X1 had more high budget exclusives at launch (and yes the Indies they lost because of other mistakes we hadn't enumerated before).

Also comes to relevance that this is the first gen where the most powerful console won (or if you want to consider X1X then never the most powerful console won).

I agree with your points on the effort that MS team done (even though the most important that was having more studios took they 5 years to do a "5 min" action that is buying a lot of studios).

But bottom line we can see that there wasn't really a turnaround. From launch to about year 3 MS have been very straight forward that at first X1 was tracking ahead of X360 and then reduced that to tracking ahead in USA (and to this moment it still isn't that obscenely lower, nor did it grown to say it turned around) while EU+JP+RoW they started bad and kept bad. So how can we say they tun around on sales or success if the distance to PS4 only grow and their sales curve dropped outside of USA+UK?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."