PS3 had a much worse reveal, price and time to cut down costs... still outsold the competitor that had more time on the market, more games available upfront, lower price and all.

Few consoles can achieve that.

The PS3 in no way shape or form had a much worse reveal than the Xbone, lol. The absolute only problem with PS3 was the price. Xbone had price, hardware, Kinect, and the whole DRM fiasco. If you want to think back to how bad it was, look back to that video those two Sony execs made about how to share games on PS4. The Xbone reveal was a laughing stock. Hell the stigma at launch was so bad even here that people were routinely predicting third parties would not bother to even make Xbone versions of their games. Meanwhile PS3 was on pace to outsell the 360 from the day it launched.

Anyway kudos to Papa Phil for turning the ship around. I own a launch one and a Scorpio. Probably my all time favorite console or right behind the Dreamcast.

So, what's you point?
I wasn't comparing the Xbox One reveal to the PS3's. Although in my view, the $499/Always Online/Requires Kinect 2.0/DRM policies/Used Games BS/Overemphasis on TV and other media outlets BESIDES gaming/Lack of video games were far, FAR worse that $599/Lack of video games, which were the only things the PS3 had going against it. The Xbox One's reveal was arguably the biggest shot the foot in gaming history, second only in my view to the SEGA Saturn.

PlayStation was, and is even more, a much bigger brand name than Xbox and they were fresh off back to back winning generations and two of the best selling and most beloved systems of all time, both over 100 million, one over 150 million and the greatest selling system ever. They had an established following and legacy. The two problems I mentioned it had were problems they could easily address over time and are pretty much part of the course with a new console launch. Once they gradually lowered the price to more affordable levels, they had already built and were building a quality and impressive library of games that eventually helped it overtake the 360.

The Xbox One's fate was sealed the moment it was revealed. You can pinpoint the exact moment Sony won the generation and gained the massive success and momentum they have now with the PS4 right at that reveal. Because all Sony had to do was not fuck up and they had this gen on lockdown. It was so bad, that before Microsoft finally ditched the Kinect and slashed $150 off the retail price, it was selling just barely above pre-Mario Kart 8 Wii U levels. There were even debates over which system would sell more, the Wii U or Xbox One? If your system was selling closely and being compared weekly and regularly in sales to the Wii U: You. Fucked. Up.
To go from that, to where they are now is a fantastic turn around for Microsoft.

X1 higher price and kinect was corrected less than 1 year after launch. How long took PS3 to be cheaper than X360? Ow right, never happened.

PS3 price and Sony alleged arrogance are still talked to this day on this site, perhaps even more than 3RROD. X360 were also stablished.

The biggest difference is that Sony corrected the problem of gamings showing worse on PS3 by putting their 1st party while MS took about 5 years to really start working on their studios. Even if most of what they did was buy studios, so they really don't have an excuse to take 5 years to do the action.

Yes sure, PS3 was a very good start that people don't mock to this day. And I wouldn't ever doubt that Xbox is your all time favorite.

PS3 never got cheaper than X360 and took much much much longer to have price on a comfortable level than X1.

Sure you can say they did a good turn around on Xbox, but to pretend that achieving 50M because of the reveal can't be lowered by another fuck up that almost helped Sony go bankrupt then you are on the wrong. Even more when the biggest problem of Xbox 1 have been lack of 1st party and they took 5 years to use a solution of 5 min (hyperbolic)

I forgot about the TV emphasis. Yikes. What a shit show. Don’t forget the focus on apps too. It was very entertainment focused in general with games kind of just thrown in as a secondary.

Plus no one at MS seemed to know the features and policies themselves, it seemed like once a week there were contradicting statements in interviews or tweets given by execs causing even more customer confusion. Sony meanwhile was coming off the juggernaut PS2 and just needed to fix their price. Not even close.

The topic wasn't which company was left in worse shape or was in worse shape, it's which reveal was worse. In which case, if you think that just $599 and a lack of games was a worse reveal than $499, lack of games, and a whole laundry list of anti-consumer practices such as DRM policies, Used Game policies, Required Internet Connection, overemphasis on TV, apps, and various entertainment forms other than... y'know, video games. If you think the former reveal was worse than the latter reveal. I'm sorry, but you're the one who's in the wrong.

The lack of 1st party is definitely an issue with Microsoft and it took them longer than it should have to address it. In that regard, we all agree. However, you can't just overlook how that horrible first reveal severely and negatively impacted them. That was the deciding factor for the vast majority of gamers to jump back to PlayStation after they went from the PS2 to the 360 in the last generation. Even after they reversed those policies, the damage to their brand and image was done and they still haven't fully recovered from it. If Microsoft had an actual good reveal, (No DRM, no used games policies, no always online requirement, and actual focus and emphasis on games, and no Kinect 2 requirement), the Xbox One would have launched at a cheaper price than the PS4 at $349 with a far more favorable public opinion. As a result, it would have sold significantly better in its first year and the PS4 considerably worse, and that would be the trend now. I still think Sony would be the leader and winner of this gen, because the momentum was on their side towards the end of last gen. But instead of Sony nearing 90 million and Microsoft just passing 40; Sony would be around 75 million, while Microsoft is closer to 60. Instead of selling 7-9 million Xbox One systems a year, Microsoft would be selling around 11-13 million, and instead of 17-20 million PS4s a year, Sony would be selling around 14-17 million.
That reveal took this generation from slightly in Sony's favor to Sony wins before the race even started.

Plus, with the exception of 2006 (launch year) and 2008, the PS3 outsold the 360 every other year during its life cycles. So, hindsight being 20-20, the PS3's reveal didn't really have that much of a negative impact in the grand scheme of things.

Exactly.

Half of the bad things on the reveal of X1 was solved before it launched, so to credit it for they losing half the sales on a 5 year time is ludicrous.

PS4 sold on first year about 15M so much less than 160 total of PS2, so nope, we didn't have everyone immediatelly jumping ship.

Aligned PS3 outsold X360 every year as far as I remember. Considering PS3 sold half of PS2 the reveal and time took to reach market price hurt PS3 a lot. And considering The most relevant markets for X360 (USA and UK) it was actually ahead of X360 for like 3 years the reveal had little impact, they lost WW and that would happen no matter what, because PS4 was going to do great.

1) As I already said, the damage was already done. The Xbox brand was brutally tarnished and it has still not fully recovered. From the reveal onwards, even after Microsoft reversed all of their policies, the Xbox One was almost universally viewed as the inferior console to the PS4. It's fate had already been decided.

2) I honestly don't know what you were expecting here? The PS4 to sell half the PS2's lifetime totals in one year? Of course not everyone is going to jump ship, but everyone could see what this reveal would do in the long term.  Besides, the PS3's peak year, 2011, was ~ 14.5-15 million. So the fact that the PS4 managed to sell those same numbers in its first year, with a more expensive $399 price tag and a significantly weaker library, goes to show that while not everyone jumped on board the train, everyone knew where the train was headed. As of now, the PS4 is on track to sell around 120 million worldwide, minimum. FARRR above the PS3, which it is about to blow right through once Black Friday numbers drop.

3) You lost me here. What are trying to say? That the PS3 was outselling the 360 every year? That's literally what I just said. Because as I stated in an earlier comment, PlayStation was & is a far bigger, more popular brand and name than Xbox. They were coming off the PS1 and PS2, two massively successful consoles that both sold over 100 million with a legacy and reputation.
That the Xbox One was going to sell less than the PS4 regardless? Again, that's literally what I just said. The difference being it would be much closer and the Xbox One would be selling better, the PS4 would be selling worse, and it isn't a bloodbath right from the start.