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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Digital Foundry: Dark Souls on Switch analysis

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Miyamotoo said:
GOWTLOZ said:

Correct but the sound is extremely important as well. I was just saying why Dark Souls on Switch isn't objectively better than the PS3 version.

But fact is that objectively is better than PS3 version, higher resolution and much better frame rate (no 10 FPS dips any more) vs worse sound, is objectively better version of game.

Graphics and sound preference differs with each person. A game like Dark Souls more heavily emphasises sound design over its graphics which were already bad by last gen console standards when it was released and its input lag tied to the framerate as the combat does not require quick reflexes like a hack and slash game. The sound is important for the atmosphere, the soundtrack, the fantastic voice acting and being aware of enemies.

The framerate isn't much better though, PS3 version holds 30fps majority of the time. Yes its lowest framerates are bad but they happen occasionally. The sounds and alpha effects on the Switch version are awful by comparison and occur through the whole game. Higher resolution is appreciated though and so is portablility.



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GOWTLOZ said:
Miyamotoo said:

But fact is that objectively is better than PS3 version, higher resolution and much better frame rate (no 10 FPS dips any more) vs worse sound, is objectively better version of game.

Graphics and sound preference differs with each person. A game like Dark Souls more heavily emphasises sound design over its graphics which were already bad by last gen console standards when it was released and its input lag tied to the framerate as the combat does not require quick reflexes like a hack and slash game. The sound is important for the atmosphere, the soundtrack, the fantastic voice acting and being aware of enemies.

The framerate isn't much better though, PS3 version holds 30fps majority of the time. Yes its lowest framerates are bad but they happen occasionally. The sounds and alpha effects on the Switch version are awful by comparison and occur through the whole game. Higher resolution is appreciated though and so is portablility.

They do, but you have and graphics and performance vs sound, if you have only graphics vs sound or only performance vs sound, you would have point. Game like Dark Souls also heavily emphasises on stable frame rate, dips to 10 FPS killing experience in game, saying that sound is much more important than stabile performance is very subjective.

Its much better, going from 10 or below 10 in some instances to almost locked 30 fps in same instance is huge improvement in any case.

Clear fact is that Switch version is better than PS3 version, even without full handheld option, 900/1080p vs 720p and much better frame rate compared to PS3 frame rate where you have dips to below 10 FPS, vs worse sound. Also, sound problem could be easily fixed buy a single patch.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 11 November 2018

Miyamotoo said:
GOWTLOZ said:

Graphics and sound preference differs with each person. A game like Dark Souls more heavily emphasises sound design over its graphics which were already bad by last gen console standards when it was released and its input lag tied to the framerate as the combat does not require quick reflexes like a hack and slash game. The sound is important for the atmosphere, the soundtrack, the fantastic voice acting and being aware of enemies.

The framerate isn't much better though, PS3 version holds 30fps majority of the time. Yes its lowest framerates are bad but they happen occasionally. The sounds and alpha effects on the Switch version are awful by comparison and occur through the whole game. Higher resolution is appreciated though and so is portablility.

They do, but you have and graphics and performance vs sound, if you have only graphics vs sound or only performance vs sound, you would have point. Game like Dark Souls also heavily emphasises on stable frame rate, dips to 10 FPS killing experience in game.

Its much better, going from 10 or below 10 in some instances to almost locked 30 fps in same instance is huge improvement in any case.

Clear fact is that Switch version is better than PS3 version, even without full handheld mode. Also, sound problem could be easily fixed buy a single patch.

Graphics and performance are interrelated, they affect each other. Better graphics would lead to worse performance, in any game, though it depends on the engine where the balance lies. But like I said, PS3 only drops frames a few times per playthrough in my experience, doesn't affect my experience at all. Its a case of blowing up a problem to make it look much worse than it is which Digital Foundry is guilty of a lot of times. They even point to a game where it loses a few frames in a single instance, it isn't as big a deal as it is made.

Speaking of graphics Switch version has higher resolution but worse alpha effects. It isn't even an upgrade in every sense like it should be given the hardware is 11 years newer and that it can run Doom and Wolfenstein 2.

When they fix the sound, I'll consider Switch version the better version and will get it. I do want them to so I can have the full experience on a portable.



GOWTLOZ said:
Miyamotoo said:

They do, but you have and graphics and performance vs sound, if you have only graphics vs sound or only performance vs sound, you would have point. Game like Dark Souls also heavily emphasises on stable frame rate, dips to 10 FPS killing experience in game.

Its much better, going from 10 or below 10 in some instances to almost locked 30 fps in same instance is huge improvement in any case.

Clear fact is that Switch version is better than PS3 version, even without full handheld mode. Also, sound problem could be easily fixed buy a single patch.

Graphics and performance are interrelated, they affect each other. Better graphics would lead to worse performance, in any game, though it depends on the engine where the balance lies. But like I said, PS3 only drops frames a few times per playthrough in my experience, doesn't affect my experience at all. Its a case of blowing up a problem to make it look much worse than it is which Digital Foundry is guilty of a lot of times. They even point to a game where it loses a few frames in a single instance, it isn't as big a deal as it is made.

Speaking of graphics Switch version has higher resolution but worse alpha effects. It isn't even an upgrade in every sense like it should be given the hardware is 11 years newer and that it can run Doom and Wolfenstein 2.

When they fix the sound, I'll consider Switch version the better version and will get it. I do want them to so I can have the full experience on a portable.

Its not point about that at all, point is that Switch version has much higher resolution and much better frame rate compared to PS3 version of game. Talking about frame rate, on PS3 you have very offten dips to below 20 like that DF video shows, and thats whithout Blight Town or New Londo Ruins where is well know how much bad works on PS3 in those parts of game, also every boss fight is below 30 FPS. Its not blow up, its fact that Dark Souls run very bad on PS3. Thats a point, it doesn't effect your experience, while objectively speaking drops to below 20 fps, not mention 10 is terrible in any case.

Those alpha effects are very rear through hole game, like only few examples, for instance when Dragon blows the fire. They simple reduced one effect to maintain stable frame rate, and its good call, stable frame rate is much more important that one effect thats not common at all. On other hand, much higher resolution is through hole game.

Well thats just you, Switch version is even now better version than PS3 unless if you are not person for which sound is single most important thing in a game and you dont care about frame rate or higher resolution. I finished game today on Switch and had great time, deefintly not best sound but hardy that's unplayable or that ruined hole experience.



GOWTLOZ said:
curl-6 said:

They may not bother you, but objectively speaking 10fps is extremely low and 30fps in the same stress points is a massive improvement.

Correct but the sound is extremely important as well. I was just saying why Dark Souls on Switch isn't objectively better than the PS3 version.

There are more points in favour of Switch than PS3 though.

On Switch you get: Much better framerate, higher resolution, ambient occlusion, and portability.

On PS3 you get less compressed sound and slightly better alpha effects.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 11 November 2018

Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023. (And over 130 million lifetime)

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curl-6 said:
GOWTLOZ said:

Correct but the sound is extremely important as well. I was just saying why Dark Souls on Switch isn't objectively better than the PS3 version.

There are more points in favour of Switch than PS3 though.

On Switch you get: Much better framerate, higher resolution, ambient occlusion, and portability.

On PS3 you get less compressed sound and slightly better alpha effects.

Much better framerate, no. Having a constant 30 fps isn't that much better than having 30 fps for nearly the entire run of the game which was my experience of it.

Portability isn't objectively better than a home experience, you can have preference for either and its not wrong.

PS3's sounds are way better though and so are the alpha effects, and the Switch only has a significant advantage in resolution, that too only in docked mode, so when you can't have higher resolution and portability at the same time.



GOWTLOZ said:
curl-6 said:

There are more points in favour of Switch than PS3 though.

On Switch you get: Much better framerate, higher resolution, ambient occlusion, and portability.

On PS3 you get less compressed sound and slightly better alpha effects.

Much better framerate, no. Having a constant 30 fps isn't that much better than having 30 fps for nearly the entire run of the game which was my experience of it.

Portability isn't objectively better than a home experience, you can have preference for either and its not wrong.

PS3's sounds are way better though and so are the alpha effects, and the Switch only has a significant advantage in resolution, that too only in docked mode, so when you can't have higher resolution and portability at the same time.

DF 5m video clearly shows couple of FPS dips below 20, even below 10 (first boss fight had frame rate from 12 to 32), and they didnt show even worst areas when we talking about frame rate like Blighttown. Fact is that Switch has much more better frame rate.



GOWTLOZ said:
curl-6 said:

There are more points in favour of Switch than PS3 though.

On Switch you get: Much better framerate, higher resolution, ambient occlusion, and portability.

On PS3 you get less compressed sound and slightly better alpha effects.

Much better framerate, no. Having a constant 30 fps isn't that much better than having 30 fps for nearly the entire run of the game which was my experience of it.

Portability isn't objectively better than a home experience, you can have preference for either and its not wrong.

PS3's sounds are way better though and so are the alpha effects, and the Switch only has a significant advantage in resolution, that too only in docked mode, so when you can't have higher resolution and portability at the same time.

Actually, yes, much better framerate. Dark Souls on PS3 does not run at 30fps for "nearly the entire fun of the game".

DF's original report says simply breaking destructible objects like urns or pots, something that happens very often, causes PS3 to noticeably drop frames, and an early boss fight drags it down to the same 10fps slideshow as Blight Town. Furthermore:

"Dark Souls' liability to drop frames in this fashion is made evident much earlier on, with the combination of multiple assailing enemies and a fire-breathing wyvern in one sequence consistently causing drops to under 10FPS on both consoles. Also considerable is the way each version takes a jarring hit during actions involving particle effects, such as lighting bonfires, exploding fire bombs, and bleeding out from a series of arrow strikes, with the PS3 shedding a few more frames in like-for-like cases."

And later when discussing the differences between PS3 and 360: "These are minor quibbles compared to the performance hit both consoles take in the face of particle effects and multiple enemies."

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-dark-souls-face-off?page=2

So yeah, "almost always 30fps on PS3" is just straight up not true. Dark Souls on PS3 runs massively worse than on Switch. You may not remember it running badly, (I find the same thing myself when replaying games, that they often run worse than I remember because my fond memories smooth over the flaws) but factually, it does.

And nobody said portability was better than a home console experience, I actually agree with you subjectively in that it's not a worthwhile feature to me either, but Switch offers both modes and PS3 only one, so that's objectively a point to Switch.

Effects work effectively cancels out as PS3's higher res alpha is counteracted by Switch's addition of ambient occlusion, an effect missing from PS3/360.

That leaves 3 factors in Switch's favour and 1 in PS3's favour.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 17 November 2018

Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023. (And over 130 million lifetime)