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Forums - Movies Discussion - Star Wars: The Last Jedi Is Currently The Best Selling Blu-ray Of 2018 (USA)

thismeintiel said:

Oh man, you got us.  Oh, wait, no you didn't.  When ESB came out the industry was going through a major shift.  ANH was from the cinema world of old.  Where films started slow (ANH only made $8.5M, adjusted, its opening weekend, which would be a flop today), but stayed in theaters for a long ass time (ANH was in theaters for 1 1/2 years its initial run), and then see umpteen rereleases.  In the late 70s/early 80s, this model was dying out and changing to what we have, now.  A model where movies open much larger and only stay in theaters for a few months, making way for further blockbusters.  ESB was released right in the middle of this, so while it benefited from a larger opening than ANH, though still not great by today's standards ($25M, adjusted), it didn't receive an extra 6+ months to pad out its final take.  By the time ROTJ released, the industry was pretty much done with the shift, seeing that it opened with $99.1M (adjusted), a number any lower/mid budgeted blockbuster would still be grateful to hit.

Of course, even with the industry shift, and the fact that the foreign market was much smaller, ESB still made $1.5B+ WW, adjusted.  With no industry shift, and a massively expanded market, what's TLJ's excuse?

This has probably been asked in one of the ten other threads about this already, and I'm probably going to regret this, but what's Attack of the Clones' excuse then?



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S.Peelman said:
thismeintiel said:

Oh man, you got us.  Oh, wait, no you didn't.  When ESB came out the industry was going through a major shift.  ANH was from the cinema world of old.  Where films started slow (ANH only made $8.5M, adjusted, its opening weekend, which would be a flop today), but stayed in theaters for a long ass time (ANH was in theaters for 1 1/2 years its initial run), and then see umpteen rereleases.  In the late 70s/early 80s, this model was dying out and changing to what we have, now.  A model where movies open much larger and only stay in theaters for a few months, making way for further blockbusters.  ESB was released right in the middle of this, so while it benefited from a larger opening than ANH, though still not great by today's standards ($25M, adjusted), it didn't receive an extra 6+ months to pad out its final take.  By the time ROTJ released, the industry was pretty much done with the shift, seeing that it opened with $99.1M (adjusted), a number any lower/mid budgeted blockbuster would still be grateful to hit.

Of course, even with the industry shift, and the fact that the foreign market was much smaller, ESB still made $1.5B+ WW, adjusted.  With no industry shift, and a massively expanded market, what's TLJ's excuse?

This has probably been asked in one of the ten other threads about this already, and I'm probably going to regret this, but what's Attack of the Clones' excuse then?

It dropped so much for the same exact reason TLJ did.  Of the prequels, it was the one most poorly received by many fans.



I you add DVD numbers, it more narrowly beats Black Panther's 3,812,908 to TLJ's 3,869,705 with Coco not too far off with 3,414,032 combined units. DVDs still sells relatively well despite Blu Ray being around for over a decade at this point, impressive in it's own right (physical media has declined massively, but still kicking all things considered).



That's probably because many people want to buy the blu ray copy so they can pull out scenes from it and post on youtube where they are shitting on this piece of crap movie. xD

P.S . TFA and TLJ are the worst sw movies i can't stand them ! I actually loved TFA when it came out but the illusion of it being good and simply 'not being the prequels' quickly wore off with every time i watched it again.. it's so awful and cringy.

Disney killed Star Wars and that is that gentleman.



OlfinBedwere said:

I'd think a reasonable expectation for The Last Jedi would have been about two-thirds of what The Force Awakens earned at the box-office, seeing how that's what The Empire Strikes Back earned compared to A New Hope, and Attack of the Clones earned compared to The Phantom Menace. And guess what? That's exactly how much money The Last Jedi made!

Heck, even Solo was only as much of a disaster as it was because they basically shot the movie twice. If they'd just released the Lord & Miller cut (assuming it would have earned the same as Howard's version) then it'd have been underwhelming for a Star Wars film, but still mildly profitable.

Every time ESB is brought up, TLJ haters (and people who hate Disney-era SW in general) come up with the same tired excuses like "Well, that doesn't count because things were different in 1980 than they were in 1977," as if the industry was in some major transition period. Except it really wasn't. In 1980, movies were still not very front-loaded like they are now. ESB was a slow burner, maybe not to the extent of ANH due to being a sequel, but definitely by today's standards. After three whole months in theaters, ESB had only reached about 70% of its lifetime gross, whereas most movies reach 85-90% of their lifetime gross within the first four weeks in the present day, with opening weekend alone typically accounting for well over 30% of the lifetime gross (even Avatar, by far the least front-loaded major blockbuster of the 21st century, still pulled 60% of its lifetime gross after the first four weeks, 85% of it after eight weeks, and 98.5% of it after 13 weeks).

And the rise of home video wasn't a factor, either. ESB wasn't released on VHS until 1984, and even then VCR penetration was at about 10% of households at the time. In 1980, nobody was going to simply wait for a movie to come out on video and rent it from their local rental shop (if they even had one) because hardly anyone had a VCR and studios weren't churning out home video releases like they were by the end of the decade. Return of the Jedi's opening weekend was the largest ever at the time, yet it was outright modest by today's standards and amounted to only 9% of its lifetime gross, and overall, it had only reached 40% of its lifetime gross after 30 days in theaters. That was as front-loaded as movies got back then. Oh, and ROTJ wasn't released on VHS until 1986.

And, while it has nothing to do with The Empire Strikes Back, there's still been talk about the "dismal" second-weekend drop of TLJ, yet such arguments fail to take into account that said weekend ended on Christmas Eve, which is always a rough day for box office figures. It actually made up for it during the following weekdays, doing massively better on that Monday that the day before. Overall, second-week box office revenues for TLJ exhibited a smaller drop than most other major action films of the 21st century, including The Avengers, Infinity War, The Dark Knight, Black Panther, and Jurassic World. And let's not forget the hate storm had already reached its full fury by then. Fan backlash and negative word of mouth clearly did nothing to dampen TLJ's success.

Of course, when presented with that evidence, then suddenly a big deal is made about the film's performance after the first month. Y'know, after the point when a big blockbuster movie will have made almost all the money it will make. Without internet hatedoms, I never would have learned how important those post-first month legs are. I suppose TLJ did under-perform in that regard, but even with better legs from the fifth week and later, it might have increased its domestic gross by only 6% or so. I know. Such a disaster that it failed to do that. It surely was the doom of Star Wars forever and ever. And Solo's mediocre performance (by Star Wars standards) totally proves it even though we don't have any clear evidence of a causal link between the two. But hey, why let a lack of evidence stand in the way of a good narrative about doom and gloom?

And finally, as for global grosses, the biggest portion of TLJ's decline from TFA was in Asia and Latin America, which were never massive markets for Star Wars to begin with, but where The Force Awakens did surprisingly well. China in particular, after suddenly displaying an interest in Star Wars with TFA, apparently decided it wasn't for them, with TLJ dropping 65% from TFA. Considering the history of Star Wars at the international box office, it's hard to hold those numbers against TLJ. And for what it's worth it actually had a smaller percentage drop in most of Europe than it did in the U.S.

In all seriousness, I think the internet hatedom towards TLJ is just a small but very vocal minority of easily outraged fans who are pissed that the movie didn't play out in a way that confirmed all of their headcanon (or they're just easily offended individuals that have a meltdown if they see anything that remotely smacks of SJW influence, like non-white leads, or powerful women with pink hair; a lot of TLJ hate is simple political natter). By all regards, it was a great film, hence the critical acclaim (91% at RT, 85 Meta, 4 Academy noms, 2 BAFTA noms, multiple Empire and Saturn Award wins). I watched it three times in theaters and own the 4K Blu-ray (Best Buy steel book), and it keeps getting better every single time I see it. But then again I don't fashion myself as an elite gatekeeper of my favorite franchises, which must be treated as holy writ and any changes must be approved by the Council of Nerds before being accepted into canon. I watch movies for the same reason I play video games: to have fun, not to have a religious experience.



Visit http://shadowofthevoid.wordpress.com

In accordance to the VGC forum rules, §8.5, I hereby exercise my right to demand to be left alone regarding the subject of the effects of the pandemic on video game sales (i.e., "COVID bump").

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Nice to see Coco so high, I love that movie.
#CocoforKingdomHearts4



Shadow1980 said: 

"Considering the history of Star Wars at the international box office, it's hard to hold those numbers against TLJ. "

 

I thought Star Wars was the big deal in most 1st world countries. 



AngryLittleAlchemist said:

I thought Star Wars was the big deal in most 1st world countries. 

To an extent. In the UK, Australia, and Ireland, yeah, Star Wars is huge like it is here in the U.S. On the continent... eh. The films do well for themselves, but they're not the dominating force they are in Anglosphere nations. TFA wasn't exactly smashing records like it was here. It was the highest-grossing film of the past 20 years by a wide margin in the U.S. But not in markets like France, Germany, and Italy, where other relatively recent films have beaten it by a considerable margin, and on a per-capita basis it's nothing mind-blowing like it was here in the States. In Japan, TFA didn't even beat The Phantom Menace, and they rank #17 and #13, respectively, among films of the past 20 years.

On balance, Star Wars tends to get a larger portion of its global box office through the U.S./Canada market than do most other big blockbuster films. Of the Top 20 all-time global grossers, only Black Panther and The Incredibles 2 received a smaller portion of their total gross from the international markets than The Last Jedi. Star Wars does very well in the English-speaking world, but in continental Europe as well as Japan, it merely does decently. And in Latin America and the rest of Asia, it's nothing remarkable.



Visit http://shadowofthevoid.wordpress.com

In accordance to the VGC forum rules, §8.5, I hereby exercise my right to demand to be left alone regarding the subject of the effects of the pandemic on video game sales (i.e., "COVID bump").

Shadow1980 said:

In all seriousness, I think the internet hatedom towards TLJ is just a small but very vocal minority of easily outraged fans who are pissed that the movie didn't play out in a way that confirmed all of their headcanon (or they're just easily offended individuals that have a meltdown if they see anything that remotely smacks of SJW influence, like non-white leads, or powerful women with pink hair; a lot of TLJ hate is simple political natter). By all regards, it was a great film, hence the critical acclaim (91% at RT, 85 Meta, 4 Academy noms, 2 BAFTA noms, multiple Empire and Saturn Award wins). I watched it three times in theaters and own the 4K Blu-ray (Best Buy steel book), and it keeps getting better every single time I see it. But then again I don't fashion myself as an elite gatekeeper of my favorite franchises, which must be treated as holy writ and any changes must be approved by the Council of Nerds before being accepted into canon. I watch movies for the same reason I play video games: to have fun, not to have a religious experience.

What's really baffling is that when the first two prequels were still big box-office hits despite their less-than-stellar receptions, the fan reaction was basically "meh, it's Star Wars, people are still gonna see it even if it sucks." Yet now, certain people seem so determined to believe that The Last Jedi was some kind of huge failure, as if the very notion of it being a box-office success is somehow incredibly offensive to them.

Heck, even if it had somehow managed to match what The Force Awakens made at the box-office, I suspect people would be pointing to the likes of Star Trek Into Darkness and most of the MCU sequels as proof that it should have made more than what the first film did, and claimed it to be a failure for that reason.



Shadow1980 said:
OlfinBedwere said:

I'd think a reasonable expectation for The Last Jedi would have been about two-thirds of what The Force Awakens earned at the box-office, seeing how that's what The Empire Strikes Back earned compared to A New Hope, and Attack of the Clones earned compared to The Phantom Menace. And guess what? That's exactly how much money The Last Jedi made!

Heck, even Solo was only as much of a disaster as it was because they basically shot the movie twice. If they'd just released the Lord & Miller cut (assuming it would have earned the same as Howard's version) then it'd have been underwhelming for a Star Wars film, but still mildly profitable.

 Blah blah blah.

It's weird how someone does all of these graphs and research, yet you still choose to stay completely ignorant to facts.  Yes, the industry was in a HUGE swing  going into the 80's.  Going from a time when movies were slow burns that stayed in the theater for over a year, to having huge openings and being gone within a few months.

For Christ's sake, ANH opened with just $8.5M, and that's adjusted for ticket price inflation.  That would be a pathetic opening for pretty much any film today, especially a blockbuster.  ESB opened with what would be the equivalent of $25M today.  Definitely better, but still a flop for a big blockbuster film.  Add in the fact that movies weren't staying in theaters longer than a year anymore, and the better opening didn't help it much.  Now, look at ROTJ.  It opened with $99.1M, adjusted, back in 1983, just 3 years after ESB.  Even today, 35 years later, that's a great freaking opening for a mid-range blockbuster.  Hell, that's actually what JL was expected to open with.  Now, please explain away those numbers, numbers guy.  No change in the industry?  Please.

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 09 September 2018