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Forums - Movies & TV - Star Wars: The Last Jedi Is Currently The Best Selling Blu-ray Of 2018 (USA)

CGI-Quality said:
Shadow1980 said:

You missed the part where ROTJ's opening weekend was only 9% of its opening gross, and it was only $67.7M adjusted for the 3-day weekend, which is downright modest by today's standards. Sure, it may have set a record at the time, but that was highly atypical for a movie back then, it was still not a very front-loaded film (again, not even at half its lifetime gross after 30 days), and that record, even when adjusted for inflation, puts it at 234th place for all-time best opening weekends, bested by films like Troy, Scary Movie, and The Longest Yard, films not exactly know for record-shattering openings. Even if you added Memorial Day for the long weekend, it was at $89.7M adjusted, just shy of 12% its lifetime gross. Also, it's worth pointing out that the most front-loaded blockbusters of the 80s were, like ROTJ, all sequels to hit movies that were not very front-loaded at all. Ghostbusters II, Back to the Future Part II, Beverly Hills Cop 2, Lethal Weapon 2, Crocodile Dundee II, even The Temple of Doom and The Last Crusade to an extent. All vastly more front-loaded than their originals. But original films? E.T., Raiders of the Lost Ark, Back to the Future, Ghostbusters, Tootsie, Beverly Hills Cop, and Top Gun were among the best-performing films of the decade, and they were all relative slow burners that stayed in cinemas for at least half a year or more and took several months to reach ~90% of their lifetime gross.

Put short, the increased front-loading of movies wasn't something that suddenly happened overnight in cinemas in the early 80s. The idea that some massive sea change in viewing habits by 1980 was what kept Empire from grossing what A New Hope did is entirely without merit or any supporting evidence. Those supposed changes in viewing habits after 1977 didn't keep E.T. (1982) or Titanic (1997) from netting well over a billion dollars adjusted gross in their original theatrical runs (and even Box Office Mojo has The Force Awakens at over a billion adjusted now). It takes a rare special movie to pull those kind of ticket sales, and The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi were not those movies.

Star Wars was brand new in 1997, limited in release, and took a ton of time and word of mouth to propel it to blockbuster status, but once it did it became a major pop culture phenomenon. It was something new, something fresh, something exciting, but it wasn't an overnight hit. But it ended up becoming the second highest-grossing film ever adjusted domestically. And neither ESB nor ROTJ were going to replicate that level of success, even if they had a full year. They didn't have the excuse of home video or TV broadcasts to drag them down a few months after premiering, either. They simply don't have any excuse for failing to draw the same kind of ticket sales ANH did. Not as many people felt they were worth seeing, or at least not multiple times, and they didn't have the same novelty that ANH did. And after three times of a Star Wars trilogy having a huge first entry and the follow-ups not doing as well, I think it's safe to say that we're seeing a pattern. Hell, when the original trilogy was re-released in 1997 as Special Editions, A New Hope grossed more than Empire and Jedi combined. Why? What was ESB and ROTJ's excuses then?

Personally, I think you and others who share your views simply feel the need to downplay TLJ's box office figures in order to support your narrative that the movie is objectively some sort of cinematic abomination. The very idea that film could be anything other than a financial disappointment is outright abhorrent to those who hated the film. You want the film to be viewed as a disappointment, because you hate it. And honestly, I haven't seen such a gross overreaction to a movie in my entire life. You know why so many people look down on geek culture? Petulant rage fits over movies not playing out like you wanted are almost certainly one reason why. Most people just want to enjoy a good movie (and it was good), and aren't going to engage in some asinine boycott and demanding producer resignations and director terminations because Luke Skywalker wasn't treated like Jesus Christ. The 30 Minutes Hate videos on YouTube are for a small niche of disgruntled Star Wars fans that have made this fanbase incredibly toxic, even more so than usual. Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy did not rape anyone's childhoods. Is it too much to ask for Star Wars fans to grow up and get a grip? Apparently so.

I wish I could frame this.

Etch it on a copper plate and then frame in in the biggest, most baroque frame we can find.



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Shadow1980 said:

You missed the part where ROTJ's opening weekend was only 9% of its opening gross, and it was only $67.7M adjusted for the 3-day weekend, which is downright modest by today's standards. Sure, it may have set a record at the time, but that was highly atypical for a movie back then, it was still not a very front-loaded film (again, not even at half its lifetime gross after 30 days), and that record, even when adjusted for inflation, puts it at 234th place for all-time best opening weekends, bested by films like Troy, Scary Movie, and The Longest Yard, films not exactly know for record-shattering openings. Even if you added Memorial Day for the long weekend, it was at $89.7M adjusted, just shy of 12% its lifetime gross. Also, it's worth pointing out that the most front-loaded blockbusters of the 80s were, like ROTJ, all sequels to hit movies that were not very front-loaded at all. Ghostbusters II, Back to the Future Part II, Beverly Hills Cop 2, Lethal Weapon 2, Crocodile Dundee II, even The Temple of Doom and The Last Crusade to an extent. All vastly more front-loaded than their originals. But original films? E.T., Raiders of the Lost Ark, Back to the Future, Ghostbusters, Tootsie, Beverly Hills Cop, and Top Gun were among the best-performing films of the decade, and they were all relative slow burners that stayed in cinemas for at least half a year or more and took several months to reach ~90% of their lifetime gross.

Put short, the increased front-loading of movies wasn't something that suddenly happened overnight in cinemas in the early 80s. The idea that some massive sea change in viewing habits by 1980 was what kept Empire from grossing what A New Hope did is entirely without merit or any supporting evidence. Those supposed changes in viewing habits after 1977 didn't keep E.T. (1982) or Titanic (1997) from netting well over a billion dollars adjusted gross in their original theatrical runs (and even Box Office Mojo has The Force Awakens at over a billion adjusted now). It takes a rare special movie to pull those kind of ticket sales, and The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi were not those movies.

Star Wars was brand new in 1997, limited in release, and took a ton of time and word of mouth to propel it to blockbuster status, but once it did it became a major pop culture phenomenon. It was something new, something fresh, something exciting, but it wasn't an overnight hit. But it ended up becoming the second highest-grossing film ever adjusted domestically. And neither ESB nor ROTJ were going to replicate that level of success, even if they had a full year. They didn't have the excuse of home video or TV broadcasts to drag them down a few months after premiering, either. They simply don't have any excuse for failing to draw the same kind of ticket sales ANH did. Not as many people felt they were worth seeing, or at least not multiple times, and they didn't have the same novelty that ANH did. And after three times of a Star Wars trilogy having a huge first entry and the follow-ups not doing as well, I think it's safe to say that we're seeing a pattern. Hell, when the original trilogy was re-released in 1997 as Special Editions, A New Hope grossed more than Empire and Jedi combined. Why? What was ESB and ROTJ's excuses then?

Personally, I think you and others who share your views simply feel the need to downplay TLJ's box office figures in order to support your narrative that the movie is objectively some sort of cinematic abomination. The very idea that film could be anything other than a financial disappointment is outright abhorrent to those who hated the film. You want the film to be viewed as a disappointment, because you hate it. And honestly, I haven't seen such a gross overreaction to a movie in my entire life. You know why so many people look down on geek culture? Petulant rage fits over movies not playing out like you wanted are almost certainly one reason why. Most people just want to enjoy a good movie (and it was good), and aren't going to engage in some asinine boycott and demanding producer resignations and director terminations because Luke Skywalker wasn't treated like Jesus Christ. The 30 Minutes Hate videos on YouTube are for a small niche of disgruntled Star Wars fans that have made this fanbase incredibly toxic, even more so than usual. Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy did not rape anyone's childhoods. Is it too much to ask for Star Wars fans to grow up and get a grip? Apparently so.

Great post!

While I don´t view neither TLJ or TFA as great films, they both have some strenghts and weaknesses. Some diehard starwars fans seem to be similar to some diehard Zelda fans, always whining and hating everything that isn´t exactly what they wanted. The hate towards some of those things like TLJ, Jar-Jar, Yoda, Ewoks, Windwaker and Majoras mask has been and is disproportionate. With all that hate, the bluray sales seem pretty good to me and nice to see bladerunner doing well.



Carl said:
Shadow1980 said:

Personally, I think you and others who share your views simply feel the need to downplay TLJ's box office figures in order to support your narrative that the movie is objectively some sort of cinematic abomination. The very idea that film could be anything other than a financial disappointment is outright abhorrent to those who hated the film. You want the film to be viewed as a disappointment, because you hate it. And honestly, I haven't seen such a gross overreaction to a movie in my entire life. You know why so many people look down on geek culture? Petulant rage fits over movies not playing out like you wanted are almost certainly one reason why. Most people just want to enjoy a good movie (and it was good), and aren't going to engage in some asinine boycott and demanding producer resignations and director terminations because Luke Skywalker wasn't treated like Jesus Christ. The 30 Minutes Hate videos on YouTube are for a small niche of disgruntled Star Wars fans that have made this fanbase incredibly toxic, even more so than usual. Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy did not rape anyone's childhoods. Is it too much to ask for Star Wars fans to grow up and get a grip? Apparently so.

That part of the post sums up so much, I really wish I could give Shadow all the praise for finding the best wording. 



 

That's a lot of disappointed people trololol. More seriously, who said Star Wars was dead/destroyed/whatever? With such an outrageous claim I can't just take your word for it that a significant number of people are saying it. I've seen plenty of hate and bashing on the TLJ which is deserved imo, but can't recall hearing the franchise on a whole now being a failure cause of one movie. Afterall if the prequel trilogy didn't kill it then nothing will haha.



Shadow1980 said:

You missed the part where ROTJ's opening weekend was only 9% of its opening gross, and it was only $67.7M adjusted for the 3-day weekend, which is downright modest by today's standards. Sure, it may have set a record at the time, but that was highly atypical for a movie back then, it was still not a very front-loaded film (again, not even at half its lifetime gross after 30 days), and that record, even when adjusted for inflation, puts it at 234th place for all-time best opening weekends, bested by films like Troy, Scary Movie, and The Longest Yard, films not exactly know for record-shattering openings. Even if you added Memorial Day for the long weekend, it was at $89.7M adjusted, just shy of 12% its lifetime gross. Also, it's worth pointing out that the most front-loaded blockbusters of the 80s were, like ROTJ, all sequels to hit movies that were not very front-loaded at all. Ghostbusters II, Back to the Future Part II, Beverly Hills Cop 2, Lethal Weapon 2, Crocodile Dundee II, even The Temple of Doom and The Last Crusade to an extent. All vastly more front-loaded than their originals. But original films? E.T., Raiders of the Lost Ark, Back to the Future, Ghostbusters, Tootsie, Beverly Hills Cop, and Top Gun were among the best-performing films of the decade, and they were all relative slow burners that stayed in cinemas for at least half a year or more and took several months to reach ~90% of their lifetime gross.

Put short, the increased front-loading of movies wasn't something that suddenly happened overnight in cinemas in the early 80s. The idea that some massive sea change in viewing habits by 1980 was what kept Empire from grossing what A New Hope did is entirely without merit or any supporting evidence. Those supposed changes in viewing habits after 1977 didn't keep E.T. (1982) or Titanic (1997) from netting well over a billion dollars adjusted gross in their original theatrical runs (and even Box Office Mojo has The Force Awakens at over a billion adjusted now). It takes a rare special movie to pull those kind of ticket sales, and The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi were not those movies.

Star Wars was brand new in 1977, limited in release, and took a ton of time and word of mouth to propel it to blockbuster status, but once it did it became a major pop culture phenomenon. It was something new, something fresh, something exciting, but it wasn't an overnight hit. But it ended up becoming the second highest-grossing film ever adjusted domestically. And neither ESB nor ROTJ were going to replicate that level of success, even if they had a full year. They didn't have the excuse of home video or TV broadcasts to drag them down a few months after premiering, either. They simply don't have any excuse for failing to draw the same kind of ticket sales ANH did. Not as many people felt they were worth seeing, or at least not multiple times, and they didn't have the same novelty that ANH did. And after three times of a Star Wars trilogy having a huge first entry and the follow-ups not doing as well, I think it's safe to say that we're seeing a pattern. Hell, when the original trilogy was re-released in 1997 as Special Editions, A New Hope grossed more than Empire and Jedi combined. Why? What was ESB and ROTJ's excuses then?

Personally, I think you and others who share your views simply feel the need to downplay TLJ's box office figures in order to support your narrative that the movie is objectively some sort of cinematic abomination. The very idea that it could be anything other than a financial disappointment is outright abhorrent to those who hated it. You want the film to be viewed as a disappointment, because you hate it. And honestly, I haven't seen such a gross overreaction to a movie in my entire life. You know why so many people look down on geek culture? Petulant rage fits over movies not playing out like you wanted are almost certainly one reason why. Most people just want to enjoy a good movie (and it was good), and aren't going to engage in some asinine boycott and demanding producer resignations and director terminations because Luke Skywalker wasn't treated like Jesus Christ. The 30 Minutes Hate videos on YouTube are for a small niche of disgruntled Star Wars fans that have made this fanbase incredibly toxic, even more so than usual. Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy did not rape anyone's childhoods. Is it too much to ask for Star Wars fans to grow up and get a grip? Apparently so.

 

Edited for minor typos.

Sorry for the late reply.  So, where to start.

First of all, "9% of its opening gross?"  How large of a window do you think an opening entails?  From the Wed ROTJ opened through its first Sun, it made $99.06M, adjusted.  Fri-Sat it made $67.74M (still a damn good start for a modestly budgeted blockbuster today, 35 years later), which is 68.4%.  Now, I'm going to assume you meant its entire initial run and not just opening, which you would be right.  Of course, that doesn't change the point that the industry was going through a shift to having larger opening weekends, with films having less time in theaters.  Sorry, it's just a fact. 

In comparison, ESB made only $16.9M, adjusted, its first Fri-Sun.  That would be a complete flop today.  Fortunately, it had a damn good run, because even though it started with a $50.84M deficit, it ended up only being down $19.66M below ROTJ.  It actually made $82.1M, unadjusted, more than it at the FBO.  Of course, it would have done much better if the industry was still allowing movies to be in theaters for more than a year.

Like I said, there is no way to refute the facts.  The industry was going through a shift.  Plain and simple.  The SW numbers prove it. ANH Fri-Mon: $8.51M, 18 months in theaters.  ESB Fri-Sun: $16.9M, less than 12 months in theaters.  ROTJ Fri-Sun: $67.7M, less than 12 months in theaters.  And you say it didn't happen overnight.  Oh, yea?  Hmm, so it looks like you actually do agree with me.  The fact that it didn't happen over night is exactly what screwed over ESB from having a smaller drop from ANH.  Not only did it not get that big opening weekend, like films started to do as more time went on, but it also suffered because films weren't staying in theaters for more than a year.

You bring up E.T. and Titanic.  Not sure why.  Of course there will always be those event films that perform better than Star Wars.  Always has been.  Always will be (especially now.)  ANH isn't #1 when adjusted for inflation at the DBO, after all.  And if you don't count rereleases, The Sound of Music is basically tied with it.  Of course, neither E.T or Titanic were able to overcome the 1 year limit (I guess technically E.T. beat it by like a week or two, still a long cry from 18 months in the cinema that ANH saw.)

And you seriously are going to use the weak argument of the Special Editions?  Wow, that really knocks a few respect points off.  Maybe you just don't remember when that film hit.  The ANH SE was hyped up the ass.  People were excited to see SW, again, but with never before seen footage put back into the film, plus new state of the art special effects.  Then the film came out.  Many were disappointed beyond belief.  The additions were rarely good.  And some of them even ruined scenes.  Of course the other 2 didn't do well.  I mean, doesn't it seem strange to you that ROTJ performed better at the DBO than ESB, yet its SE release did much worse?  There's also a little thing called franchise fatigue.  And real franchise fatigue, not the fabricated kind people talk about when defending the performance of these new films, even though they are spaced out much more than Marvel films.  You do realize that the SE came out just two to three weeks apart from each other, right?  That will cause actual fatigue.

Your response also fails to address a few big things.  ESB still managed to do $1.5B+ WW, and with a smaller market, while the industry shift happened.  TLJ, with a much larger market and no shift, hits $1.33B.  So, what is TLJ's excuse for not even hitting the lowest of expectations, which was ~$1.6B WW?  And what about the drop in merch sales following the film's release?  Why is TFA still $20 to buy digitally from Amazon and Youtube after 2 years of being on video, yet TLJ is only $11 after a few months of release?  And after thousands of fans say that TLJ killed the franchise for them going forward, it just so happens to lead into the first ever SW flop?  Coincidence, I suppose?  What will be the excuse if Ep. 9 barely hits $1B, or $900M+?  "Nope, nothing to see here.  All good."

And, yes, I too want to frame your response.  But for different reasons.    Anyway, we'll just have to wait for the next installment to see how this plays out.  This will be last response in this thread.  I have already discussed this topic ad nauseam, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.  For now.

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 12 September 2018

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thismeintiel said:
Got to laugh at the cherry picking. Just like people like to use the strawman that people are saying TLJ was a flop. No one said that. It was a big disappointment. It made much less than it was projected to make, was beaten easily by a Marvel standalone film, and lead to a steep decrease in franchise sales, including the first ever SW flop, Solo.

Seems like the DVD sales will be no different. Last we heard, TLJ's home video sales are about half that of TFA. They state that the others are WAY behind, but not only is BP only 390K behind it, BP released to home video almost two months after TLJ did. Oh, and let's not wait til IW and JW2 numbers come in before we claim victory. In the end, TLJ probably won't even be in the Top 3 by the time the year is over. Pathetic for a main installment in the franchise.

You accuse people of cherry picking.

You then go on to imply that a film with a targeted sci-fi fanbase was defeated by just any old film. In fact it was beaten by the most high-impact demonstration of diversity in a superhero film in history, a film with a much broader target audience, a film that is itself part of the highest grossing film series of all time.

You then go on to compare TLJ to TFA, despite TFA being the first installment in the franchise in over a decade, and ignoring that each of the previous trilogies also faced significant drop offs from film one to film two (to say nothing of the fact neither had a spin-off film in between them contributing to fatigue).

But yeah, sure, the OP was cherry picking.



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

Shadow1980 said:
thismeintiel said:

It's weird how someone does all of these graphs and research, yet you still choose to stay completely ignorant to facts.  Yes, the industry was in a HUGE swing  going into the 80's.  Going from a time when movies were slow burns that stayed in the theater for over a year, to having huge openings and being gone within a few months.

For Christ's sake, ANH opened with just $8.5M, and that's adjusted for ticket price inflation.  That would be a pathetic opening for pretty much any film today, especially a blockbuster.  ESB opened with what would be the equivalent of $25M today.  Definitely better, but still a flop for a big blockbuster film.  Add in the fact that movies weren't staying in theaters longer than a year anymore, and the better opening didn't help it much.  Now, look at ROTJ.  It opened with $99.1M, adjusted, back in 1983, just 3 years after ESB.  Even today, 35 years later, that's a great freaking opening for a mid-range blockbuster.  Hell, that's actually what JL was expected to open with.  Now, please explain away those numbers, numbers guy.  No change in the industry?  Please.

You missed the part where ROTJ's opening weekend was only 9% of its opening gross, and it was only $67.7M adjusted for the 3-day weekend, which is downright modest by today's standards. Sure, it may have set a record at the time, but that was highly atypical for a movie back then, it was still not a very front-loaded film (again, not even at half its lifetime gross after 30 days), and that record, even when adjusted for inflation, puts it at 234th place for all-time best opening weekends, bested by films like Troy, Scary Movie, and The Longest Yard, films not exactly know for record-shattering openings. Even if you added Memorial Day for the long weekend, it was at $89.7M adjusted, just shy of 12% its lifetime gross. Also, it's worth pointing out that the most front-loaded blockbusters of the 80s were, like ROTJ, all sequels to hit movies that were not very front-loaded at all. Ghostbusters II, Back to the Future Part II, Beverly Hills Cop 2, Lethal Weapon 2, Crocodile Dundee II, even The Temple of Doom and The Last Crusade to an extent. All vastly more front-loaded than their originals. But original films? E.T., Raiders of the Lost Ark, Back to the Future, Ghostbusters, Tootsie, Beverly Hills Cop, and Top Gun were among the best-performing films of the decade, and they were all relative slow burners that stayed in cinemas for at least half a year or more and took several months to reach ~90% of their lifetime gross.

Put short, the increased front-loading of movies wasn't something that suddenly happened overnight in cinemas in the early 80s. The idea that some massive sea change in viewing habits by 1980 was what kept Empire from grossing what A New Hope did is entirely without merit or any supporting evidence. Those supposed changes in viewing habits after 1977 didn't keep E.T. (1982) or Titanic (1997) from netting well over a billion dollars adjusted gross in their original theatrical runs (and even Box Office Mojo has The Force Awakens at over a billion adjusted now). It takes a rare special movie to pull those kind of ticket sales, and The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi were not those movies.

Star Wars was brand new in 1977, limited in release, and took a ton of time and word of mouth to propel it to blockbuster status, but once it did it became a major pop culture phenomenon. It was something new, something fresh, something exciting, but it wasn't an overnight hit. But it ended up becoming the second highest-grossing film ever adjusted domestically. And neither ESB nor ROTJ were going to replicate that level of success, even if they had a full year. They didn't have the excuse of home video or TV broadcasts to drag them down a few months after premiering, either. They simply don't have any excuse for failing to draw the same kind of ticket sales ANH did. Not as many people felt they were worth seeing, or at least not multiple times, and they didn't have the same novelty that ANH did. And after three times of a Star Wars trilogy having a huge first entry and the follow-ups not doing as well, I think it's safe to say that we're seeing a pattern. Hell, when the original trilogy was re-released in 1997 as Special Editions, A New Hope grossed more than Empire and Jedi combined. Why? What was ESB and ROTJ's excuses then?

Personally, I think you and others who share your views simply feel the need to downplay TLJ's box office figures in order to support your narrative that the movie is objectively some sort of cinematic abomination. The very idea that it could be anything other than a financial disappointment is outright abhorrent to those who hated it. You want the film to be viewed as a disappointment, because you hate it. And honestly, I haven't seen such a gross overreaction to a movie in my entire life. You know why so many people look down on geek culture? Petulant rage fits over movies not playing out like you wanted are almost certainly one reason why. Most people just want to enjoy a good movie (and it was good), and aren't going to engage in some asinine boycott and demanding producer resignations and director terminations because Luke Skywalker wasn't treated like Jesus Christ. The 30 Minutes Hate videos on YouTube are for a small niche of disgruntled Star Wars fans that have made this fanbase incredibly toxic, even more so than usual. Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy did not rape anyone's childhoods. Is it too much to ask for Star Wars fans to grow up and get a grip? Apparently so.

 

Edited for minor typos.

wow this post is awesome..and I don't even like TLJ



Cool? What does this really prove? People buy poorly made entertainment all the time. Hell, look at all the pop, country, and rap music that constantly lights up the charts.

And apparently by many here Nintendo selling a crap ton of units in the Wii days "didn't count" because "casuals" or something.. But sales only matter when it confirms their biases I guess.

The series can go on to sell a gazillion copies for all I care. All I know is I found zero enjoyment in TLJ and that Star Wars simply no longer appeals to me, and lord knows I tried. Really I did. I WANTED to like this movie but I simply don't see it (other than the solid special effects/cinematography). Virtually everything else about it ranged from bland and boring to nearly unwatchable for me.



 

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DarthMetalliCube said:
Cool? What does this really prove? People buy poorly made entertainment all the time. Hell, look at all the pop, country, and rap music that constantly lights up the charts.

And apparently by many here Nintendo selling a crap ton of units in the Wii days "didn't count" because "casuals" or something.. But sales only matter when it confirms their biases I guess.

The series can go on to sell a gazillion copies for all I care. All I know is I found zero enjoyment in TLJ and that Star Wars simply no longer appeals to me, and lord knows I tried. Really I did. I WANTED to like this movie but I simply don't see it (other than the solid special effects/cinematography). Virtually everything else about it ranged from bland and boring to nearly unwatchable for me.

No-one's claiming The Last Jedi is the greatest movie ever - heck, I enjoyed it, but I'd still only place it roughly in the middle of the pack of all the Star Wars movies released to date - just disputing the idea that it was a massive failure because it grossed very slightly less than some people were predicting it would. The only way that a movie that's made more money than Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, and any MCU entry outside of Black Panther and the three Avengers movies can be considered a "failure" is if Disney are idiots who don't know what reasonable expectations are (which, hey, might very well be true, but I've not seen any solid evidence to confirm it is).

Neither am I claiming that all is right in the Star Wars universe - I just find it odd that people are holding The Last Jedi up as the poster boy for failure when Solo actually was an undeniable failure, and even then it made an amount at the box-office most Hollywood films can only dream of.



thismeintiel said:

The_Liquid_Laser said:

Star Wars: Episode IV grossed $461 million (unadjusted) domestic
The Empire Strikes back grossed $290 million (unadjusted) domestic

 

That is a massive 37% drop!  The Empire Strikes back was such a disappointing movie!  Fans are outraged at this total pile of shit!  I thought I was watching a cool outer space battle and they totally threw in some family soap opera shit in there!  Just watch, The Empire Strikes back will go down in history as the worst Star Wars ever!  Mark my words!















(btw, I hope you can all tell this was a tongue-in-cheek post.)

Oh man, you got us.  Oh, wait, no you didn't.  When ESB came out the industry was going through a major shift.  ANH was from the cinema world of old.  Where films started slow (ANH only made $8.5M, adjusted, its opening weekend, which would be a flop today), but stayed in theaters for a long ass time (ANH was in theaters for 1 1/2 years its initial run), and then see umpteen rereleases.  In the late 70s/early 80s, this model was dying out and changing to what we have, now.  A model where movies open much larger and only stay in theaters for a few months, making way for further blockbusters.  ESB was released right in the middle of this, so while it benefited from a larger opening than ANH, though still not great by today's standards ($25M, adjusted), it didn't receive an extra 6+ months to pad out its final take.  By the time ROTJ released, the industry was pretty much done with the shift, seeing that it opened with $99.1M (adjusted), a number any lower/mid budgeted blockbuster would still be grateful to hit.

Of course, even with the industry shift, and the fact that the foreign market was much smaller, ESB still made $1.5B+ WW, adjusted.  With no industry shift, and a massively expanded market, what's TLJ's excuse?

This is nonsense.  A bigger opening does not cause a smaller total.

The reason why Episode IV did so well is because no one had ever seen anything like it before.  People went over and over again, because it was a unique experience.  That is why it played for so long.  It's true that movie showings, and all of Hollywood, was going through a shift.  Do you know what movie caused that shift?  Star Wars.  When you adjust for inflation no movie since has done as well domestically.  It was a game changer. 

Empire is truly a great film, but by the time it came out, some of the novelty factor had worn off.  In fact when fans today look at the whole trilogy many see that Empire is the best film.  A New Hope had a bigger take simply because it was first.

A similar thing happened with The Force Awakens.  People had waited over 30 years to see Han, Leia, and Chewy in a film again.  People went to see it over and over, because it all seemed new again.  By the time The Last Jedi came out, some of the novelty had worn off.  It is like A New Hope and Empire all over again.