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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why are third party games selling well on Switch?

DonFerrari said:
contestgamer said:

Some people are not understanding that when you complain about the digital only being counted for the 1k titles, you are not saying Rocket League doesn't count, but that more than 90% of the listed titles are pointless. Unless we want to see an average attach ratio for games and get the 100M sold SW for 1K titles would make 100k average per games on 20M userbase so the attach ratio would be 0,5%

I bet they wouldn't like you to say the platform is bad because on average the attach ratio is 0,5% I'm pretty sure they would disqualify those digital games very fast.

You do realize every popular console has this "problem" right? 

Besides, looking at Metacritic the Nintendo Switch currently has 52 titles that scored over 80% this year, while the PS4 only has 37 titles and the Xbox One even less with only 25 titles. 



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

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3rd party games on Nintendo platforms has always had something stacked against them. Since N64 used cartridges i remember some games being very expensive especially here in Europe. I remember paying about €80 for NBA Hangtime and International Superstar Soccer 64, the PS1 versions of the same games where €50. Gamecube has some good exclusives, RE4 did really well for example, but the majority where made for multiple systems, Gamecube versions due to smaller disc size sometimes had cut content. And because the Gamecube controller effectively had 3 less buttons than the other 2 consoles some games had weird control schemes and GC version was never the definitive edition. Lets not even get started on the Wii, that said lets dance did well.

Now all these quirks have been ironed out, they are even as easy to develop for as other platforms, they been bad in the past, not PS3 bad but still. So its not surprising, since if your game is not graphically demanding, the Switch version might be the best one, due to portability and more controller options. And lets not forget that portable Nintendo platforms actually have had great support from third party. And that is because there are no better place to put your games for portable, wheres M$ and Sony are usually better places for third party games, given the Nintendo track record.



Megiddo said:

It’s all perception.
“Since its release late last autumn, third party game A sells an astonishing 400,000 units on Switch.”
“After over 6 weeks, third party game B sells only 1.2 million units on Wii, nowhere near Mario Kart Wii which has just past the 20 million mark, and Mario Galaxy which just past the 8 million mark.”

I’m not saying that Switch sales are bad, I’m saying that Wii sales were actually a lot better than the perception, and objectively stronger than the Switch.

Holy crap. Something of actual substance and not just fanwanking. Well said. It's all about perception.

Whereas I would look at data like Nintendo publishing less than 10% of retail software but having over 70% percent of software sales and say that Switch owners are not picking up hardly any 3rd party retail software (especially taking out the exclusives like Mario + Rabbids) other people can see those same horribly disproportionate numbers and say in general third part software is "selling well".

Third party games are selling well because countless of third party developers and publishers have stated as much. Are you calling them liars? 

And Nintendo doesn't count sales for digital-only titles by the way, which leaves out a lot of popular games like Stardew Valley, Shovel Knight, Enter the Gungeon, Night in the Woods, Lovers in a Dangerous Space Time, Inside, Limbo, etc.



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

some people just enjoy having the option to play Skyrim on the toilet



Alkibiádēs said:
Megiddo said:

Holy crap. Something of actual substance and not just fanwanking. Well said. It's all about perception.

Whereas I would look at data like Nintendo publishing less than 10% of retail software but having over 70% percent of software sales and say that Switch owners are not picking up hardly any 3rd party retail software (especially taking out the exclusives like Mario + Rabbids) other people can see those same horribly disproportionate numbers and say in general third part software is "selling well".

Third party games are selling well because countless of third party developers and publishers have stated as much. Are you calling them liars? 

And Nintendo doesn't count sales for digital-only titles by the way, which leaves out a lot of popular games like Stardew Valley, Shovel Knight, Enter the Gungeon, Night in the Woods, Lovers in a Dangerous Space Time, Inside, Limbo, etc.

Nintendo does indeed count digital sales, but they do not however count any sales that isn't published by Nintendo. So the top 10 list is wrong, Mario + Rabbids and Minecraft would definitely be in top 10 if they counted third party sales.



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My 2 cents: I think perception is what has changed. Not going to deny that sales are probably in a good place for some third parties, there has to be a good reason for many of those announcements and tweets regarding the sales and popularity of third party games (Both, retail/major and indie games) on the Switch.

The positive news sway our minds and we perceive the sales on Switch to be (arguably) better than what they are. Once again, I can't say that sales are not good, because multiple studios and publishers have openly spoken about the success their games are having in Nintendo's console. Perhaps 500k isn't impressive compared to what other games do in PS4, but when Bandai Namco or NISA themselves express their joy with 500k, it boosts the profile and positivity about sales on Switch. Suddenly third parties are openly expressing their will to support the system, and some of them (Once again, NISA being a prime example) have almost 100% committed to the Switch, publishing an amount of games that would rarely be released on previous Nintendo hardware.

Personally, I'm glad at least some Indies and some Japanese third parties, seemingly found a home for many of their titles.



Alkibiádēs said:
DonFerrari said:

Some people are not understanding that when you complain about the digital only being counted for the 1k titles, you are not saying Rocket League doesn't count, but that more than 90% of the listed titles are pointless. Unless we want to see an average attach ratio for games and get the 100M sold SW for 1K titles would make 100k average per games on 20M userbase so the attach ratio would be 0,5%

I bet they wouldn't like you to say the platform is bad because on average the attach ratio is 0,5% I'm pretty sure they would disqualify those digital games very fast.

You do realize every popular console has this "problem" right? 

Besides, looking at Metacritic the Nintendo Switch currently has 52 titles that scored over 80% this year, while the PS4 only has 37 titles and the Xbox One even less with only 25 titles. 

Yes I do realize that.

But when you use inflated numbers of trash titles to deny that some of the games that sold well on Switch were helped by lack of competition you didn't mind it and complained that he was dismissing digital games. So you can't have it both ways.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

TheMisterManGuy said:
MajorMalfunction said:

I need receipts. Octopath has broken 1 million, Skyrim has broken 1 million. Almost 20 million sold and only 2 third party games breaking a million is not an indicator that games universally sell well on Switch. I'll give you Nintendo games, no doubt, but third parties are high and dry for the most part. IMO, it's not getting every third party title because it doesn't make sense when you account for opportunity costs of money and development man-hours. It's going to get some third party games that sell well, and some that don't. The market will correct and stop making products that don't sell.

You don't need to sell a million to be successful. It all depends on development costs of the game and how much needs to be sold to break even. Many indies on Switch were considered a massive success at only 250-400k. Capcom considered Ultra Street Fighter II's 400k sales to be a hit. 

Indies are generally lower-cost endeavours wrt. developing and publishing. 400K sales is a hit SF2 because it's thirty years old. AAA doesn't give a shit. They make 27 million off 1m sales. Publishing is 20m upfront, net profit is 7m. Same revenue on PS4XB1, but you only spend 12m. If you're a business, what would you choose? Unless the market is saturated, I cannot in good conscience pick NSW. It just doesn't make sense to me. We haven't even spent a cent on development and NSW is already far behind in terms of opportunity cost.



Currently (Re-)Playing: Starcraft 2: Legacy of the Void Multiplayer, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

Currently Watching: The Shield, Stein's;Gate, Narcos

Alkibiádēs said:
DonFerrari said:

Some people are not understanding that when you complain about the digital only being counted for the 1k titles, you are not saying Rocket League doesn't count, but that more than 90% of the listed titles are pointless. Unless we want to see an average attach ratio for games and get the 100M sold SW for 1K titles would make 100k average per games on 20M userbase so the attach ratio would be 0,5%

I bet they wouldn't like you to say the platform is bad because on average the attach ratio is 0,5% I'm pretty sure they would disqualify those digital games very fast.

You do realize every popular console has this "problem" right? 

Besides, looking at Metacritic the Nintendo Switch currently has 52 titles that scored over 80% this year, while the PS4 only has 37 titles and the Xbox One even less with only 25 titles. 

Amazing!( ly padded list )........There's a much higher presence of full-on AA/AAA games on the PS4, and the Switch's top 2018 games are not only  is flooded with games, that while good, are mere indies. Most importantly: That entire switch list is dominated by games that already came out on other platforms in 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, and on and on. How many? Twenty-nine. 30 if you include Pac-Man CE 2 plus, which is more or less the same as Pac-Man CE 2.

Of those games only 6 were not already released on the PS4 in years prior. At a glance, every PS4 game of those "only 37" are legit 2018 games. Also of note but less important, some of those games scored higher on Switch because metacritic reasons: Different reviewer, different number of reviewers, and at least a few that literally have no metascore on PS4.

 

See? I CAN count.

Last edited by COKTOE - on 10 August 2018

- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

COKTOE said:
Alkibiádēs said:

You do realize every popular console has this "problem" right? 

Besides, looking at Metacritic the Nintendo Switch currently has 52 titles that scored over 80% this year, while the PS4 only has 37 titles and the Xbox One even less with only 25 titles. 

Amazing!( ly padded list )........There's a much higher presence of full-on AA/AAA games on the PS4, and the Switch's top 2018 games are not only flooded with games, that while good, are mere indies. Most importantly: That entire switch list is dominated by games that already came out on other platforms in 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, and on and on. How many? Twenty-nine. 30 if you include Pac-Man CE 2 plus, which is more or less the same as Pac-Man CE 2.

Of those games only 6 were not already released on the PS4 in years prior. At a glance, every PS4 game of those "only 37" are legit 2018 games. Also of note but less important, some of those games scored higher on Switch because metacritic reasons: Different reviewer, different number of reviewers, and at least a few that literally have no metascore on PS4.

 

See? I CAN count.

Do you get off on AAA games or something? Indie games are often better and cheaper to boot. And we're living in the era where indie games can become massive... Stardew Valley, Rocket League, Undertale, Binding of Isaac, Shovel Knight, etc. all sold many, many millions. Heck, even Minecraft started out as an indie game. 

I paid 15 bucks for Hollow Knight and it continues to get free DLC. If it was owned by a major third party publisher they would charge you 60 bucks and extra for DLC. Yeah, I'll go with indie games then. Shovel Knight was also recently announced as an assist trophy in SSBU... he's the FIRST video game character developed (and owned) by a western studio to feature in Super Smash Bros. 

Oh, and take a look at the list of games in the first two years of the PS4, not much different lol. 

Count all you want, but the Switch is getting quality game after quality game at a staggering pace. A pace that not even the PS4 can match, certainly not in its first two years on the market. 



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides