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Forums - Sales Discussion - Nintendo Financial Results: Switch sales top 19.67m, Mario Tennis 1.38m, DK TF 1.4m, more

StuOhQ said:
Great 15 month numbers, but not the best quarter. I'm still not sold on 20 million this year. We still have 18.12 left to go and the year is 1/4 spoken for. Even if it averages 3x as many units for every additional quarter all year they still fall short. Pokemon and Smash are big games, but Q4 is usually just as slow as Q1. Is Nintendo seriously implying they are going to sell well over 10 million consoles in Q3?

Not convinced on 20M either. But 10M in Q3 is realistic. Last year we had odyssey,  fire emblem warriors  and xenoblade 2, 2 niche and a 10+ million seller. No black Friday deals. And manage to sell 7 million in Q3 only. 

Now we will have 2 10 million sellers in let's go and smash and a multimillion Mario party game. We have higher sales potential. Also, there is space for BF deals and bundles. 

Imagine a pokemon let's go bundle with exclusive joycon, marketing the integration with pokemon go in the box? 

Even knowing the sales decline, they didn't decreased their forecast, so Q3 will be big. 



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curl-6 said:
Nautilus said:

Not so unachievable?For a single company to release system sellers, which according to you are games on the level of BOTW, Odyssey, Mario Kart and Splatoon 2, which all take at the very least 3 years to make(with very rare exceptions), at a pace of 1 every 4 months?So 3 huge ass games that takes hundreds of people to make?And at the same time devoting resources, which are finite mind you, since Nintendo is not God, to making lower tier franchises to diversy their catalogue, which also takes at least 3 years?And devoting resources to marketing, R&D research, updating past games and the console itself.Also jiggling betwenn their games and third party ones so those third party games have a shot of success and dont scare those developers away.Having people with the talent to actually make those games, because you know, you dont find talent anywhere?That all is not so unachievable?My my, you sure opened my eyes.Nintendo is really inneficcient.

Are you drunk or have you zero idea on how the industry works?Or are you simply dillusional?

Nothing delusional about it. It's a matter of planning. If games take 3 years to make, then start them 3 years in advance and plan 3 years ahead to avoid slumps. Hire more people to make them, there is no shortage of people skilled in video game creation. Prioritize games that will move systems like Animal Crossing over ones that won't, outsource lower tier titles to third parties to free up first party manpower. 

3 big system sellers a year isn't unreasonable at all. They've done it before, last year most notably, but also in several years of the Wii. There's no good reason they couldn't have had one ready for the first half of this year to bring it up to 3 along with Smash and Pokemon Let's Go, then have 2 more alongside traditional Pokemon for 2019. They know how long games take to make, they should've taken steps years ago to make sure 2018 and 2019 would have a steady tempo of heavy hitters. 

Curl, thats not how things work.A company has so much money, and they want to earn money.If you keep hiring people to develop games, you dont necessarily make them faster.After all, its a creative process, there is a lot of trial and error there.What you just end up having is higher expenses with no garanteed return.Plus, every project needs talents, and you dont simply hire or find talents with a notification on some website with something like "Talent wanted to make a 95+ game for our system".That is something that needs to be cultivated, and need a lot of luck to find someone with such singular abilities.

Then there are the developer themselves.Nintendo games are so good because the developers are doing what they love.Sure, the company surely have guidelines, and always have teams developing high profiles games, but they rotate the developer and their projects.There is a reason why the Animal Crossing teams is not always doing Animal Crossing games, why the Mario Kart team is not always doing Mario Kart games.Its because creative people cant be schackled to a single project, a single idea all the time.They need to flex their muscles to keep creative, and to keep engaged.Who the hell wants to keep doing the same thing for the rest of their lives?And with that brings my second point:You cant outsource those type of games without their main team, without the main people behind it, because then quality will suffer.Its not a coincidence all Smash games being excellent and them having all the same director/man behind the games.Same for Splatoon.Same for Zelda.Same for Mario.Even those old franchises that have been passed on foward to new talents, like Mario and Zelda, their original creators spent a loooong time with their pupils and future "directors" of said franchises so that they learn the essence of said games, so that the franchise keeps its identity and quality.

And for gods sake, dont outsource their low tier franchises.There IS a reason why Xenoblade is so good.There is a reason why Kirby is so beloved.There is a reason why FE remained to be relevant all these years and managed to find a bigger success these past few years.Its because of the talent that Nintendo has.Im fairly sure that the original Splatoon was meant to be a low tier franchise, at least it had the budget of one.It was even developed by a team of newbies.Not to mention that, according to your own standards of what defines a game as a killer app, Nintendo has so many "big titles" they can release in a period of time.If Nintendo did respect that release schedule of yours, they would burn out of big IPs in less than 3 years.So it wouldnt be doable either way.

What you are suggesting is that Nintendo do what Activision does with COD.And we all know how "great" or revolutionary COD is every year.And that is ONE game.Imagine having teams of that size for Mario, Zelda, pokemon, Smash, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Splatoon, 2D Mario, big ass new IP(which needs to eventually come), etc etc.

And I mean, not even a single company has so much output as Nintendo.Not a single one.Nintendo output is like of Capcom, Square and Sony output combined.They are already a monster in and of itself.So stop being "greedy", in thinking what you want, and start thinking of what is realisticaly possible.Oh, and they are also developing smartphone games.That also eats up their manpower and time.Movies too.God, they already do so much stuff.Im pretty sure Im forgetting more stuff, and leaving out more arguments to be made.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Nautilus said:
curl-6 said:

Nothing delusional about it. It's a matter of planning. If games take 3 years to make, then start them 3 years in advance and plan 3 years ahead to avoid slumps. Hire more people to make them, there is no shortage of people skilled in video game creation. Prioritize games that will move systems like Animal Crossing over ones that won't, outsource lower tier titles to third parties to free up first party manpower. 

3 big system sellers a year isn't unreasonable at all. They've done it before, last year most notably, but also in several years of the Wii. There's no good reason they couldn't have had one ready for the first half of this year to bring it up to 3 along with Smash and Pokemon Let's Go, then have 2 more alongside traditional Pokemon for 2019. They know how long games take to make, they should've taken steps years ago to make sure 2018 and 2019 would have a steady tempo of heavy hitters. 

Curl, thats not how things work.A company has so much money, and they want to earn money.If you keep hiring people to develop games, you dont necessarily make them faster.After all, its a creative process, there is a lot of trial and error there.What you just end up having is higher expenses with no garanteed return.Plus, every project needs talents, and you dont simply hire or find talents with a notification on some website with something like "Talent wanted to make a 95+ game for our system".That is something that needs to be cultivated, and need a lot of luck to find someone with such singular abilities.

Then there are the developer themselves.Nintendo games are so good because the developers are doing what they love.Sure, the company surely have guidelines, and always have teams developing high profiles games, but they rotate the developer and their projects.There is a reason why the Animal Crossing teams is not always doing Animal Crossing games, why the Mario Kart team is not always doing Mario Kart games.Its because creative people cant be schackled to a single project, a single idea all the time.They need to flex their muscles to keep creative, and to keep engaged.Who the hell wants to keep doing the same thing for the rest of their lives?And with that brings my second point:You cant outsource those type of games without their main team, without the main people behind it, because then quality will suffer.Its not a coincidence all Smash games being excellent and them having all the same director/man behind the games.Same for Splatoon.Same for Zelda.Same for Mario.Even those old franchises that have been passed on foward to new talents, like Mario and Zelda, their original creators spent a loooong time with their pupils and future "directors" of said franchises so that they learn the essence of said games, so that the franchise keeps its identity and quality.

And for gods sake, dont outsource their low tier franchises.There IS a reason why Xenoblade is so good.There is a reason why Kirby is so beloved.There is a reason why FE remained to be relevant all these years and managed to find a bigger success these past few years.Its because of the talent that Nintendo has.Im fairly sure that the original Splatoon was meant to be a low tier franchise, at least it had the budget of one.It was even developed by a team of newbies.Not to mention that, according to your own standards of what defines a game as a killer app, Nintendo has so many "big titles" they can release in a period of time.If Nintendo did respect that release schedule of yours, they would burn out of big IPs in less than 3 years.So it wouldnt be doable either way.

What you are suggesting is that Nintendo do what Activision does with COD.And we all know how "great" or revolutionary COD is every year.And that is ONE game.Imagine having teams of that size for Mario, Zelda, pokemon, Smash, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Splatoon, 2D Mario, big ass new IP(which needs to eventually come), etc etc.

And I mean, not even a single company has so much output as Nintendo.Not a single one.Nintendo output is like of Capcom, Square and Sony output combined.They are already a monster in and of itself.So stop being "greedy", in thinking what you want, and start thinking of what is realisticaly possible.Oh, and they are also developing smartphone games.That also eats up their manpower and time.Movies too.God, they already do so much stuff.Im pretty sure Im forgetting more stuff, and leaving out more arguments to be made.

I'm not being "greedy" or thinking about what I want, (I don't even like Pokemon/Smash/Animal Crossing) I'm talking about what Nintendo themselves need to do if they want to hit the high Switch numbers they aspire to. (20m this FY, more than Wii lifetime)

The idea that outsourced titles would inherently suffer in quality in untrue. Many of their outsourced games in the past have turned out to be excellent, from Donkey Kong Country to F-Zero GX to Kirby's Epic Yarn to Sin & Punishment to Super Mario RPG.



curl-6 said:
Nautilus said:

Curl, thats not how things work.A company has so much money, and they want to earn money.If you keep hiring people to develop games, you dont necessarily make them faster.After all, its a creative process, there is a lot of trial and error there.What you just end up having is higher expenses with no garanteed return.Plus, every project needs talents, and you dont simply hire or find talents with a notification on some website with something like "Talent wanted to make a 95+ game for our system".That is something that needs to be cultivated, and need a lot of luck to find someone with such singular abilities.

Then there are the developer themselves.Nintendo games are so good because the developers are doing what they love.Sure, the company surely have guidelines, and always have teams developing high profiles games, but they rotate the developer and their projects.There is a reason why the Animal Crossing teams is not always doing Animal Crossing games, why the Mario Kart team is not always doing Mario Kart games.Its because creative people cant be schackled to a single project, a single idea all the time.They need to flex their muscles to keep creative, and to keep engaged.Who the hell wants to keep doing the same thing for the rest of their lives?And with that brings my second point:You cant outsource those type of games without their main team, without the main people behind it, because then quality will suffer.Its not a coincidence all Smash games being excellent and them having all the same director/man behind the games.Same for Splatoon.Same for Zelda.Same for Mario.Even those old franchises that have been passed on foward to new talents, like Mario and Zelda, their original creators spent a loooong time with their pupils and future "directors" of said franchises so that they learn the essence of said games, so that the franchise keeps its identity and quality.

And for gods sake, dont outsource their low tier franchises.There IS a reason why Xenoblade is so good.There is a reason why Kirby is so beloved.There is a reason why FE remained to be relevant all these years and managed to find a bigger success these past few years.Its because of the talent that Nintendo has.Im fairly sure that the original Splatoon was meant to be a low tier franchise, at least it had the budget of one.It was even developed by a team of newbies.Not to mention that, according to your own standards of what defines a game as a killer app, Nintendo has so many "big titles" they can release in a period of time.If Nintendo did respect that release schedule of yours, they would burn out of big IPs in less than 3 years.So it wouldnt be doable either way.

What you are suggesting is that Nintendo do what Activision does with COD.And we all know how "great" or revolutionary COD is every year.And that is ONE game.Imagine having teams of that size for Mario, Zelda, pokemon, Smash, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Splatoon, 2D Mario, big ass new IP(which needs to eventually come), etc etc.

And I mean, not even a single company has so much output as Nintendo.Not a single one.Nintendo output is like of Capcom, Square and Sony output combined.They are already a monster in and of itself.So stop being "greedy", in thinking what you want, and start thinking of what is realisticaly possible.Oh, and they are also developing smartphone games.That also eats up their manpower and time.Movies too.God, they already do so much stuff.Im pretty sure Im forgetting more stuff, and leaving out more arguments to be made.

I'm not being "greedy" or thinking about what I want, (I don't even like Pokemon/Smash/Animal Crossing) I'm talking about what Nintendo themselves need to do if they want to hit the high Switch numbers they aspire to. (20m this FY, more than Wii lifetime)

The idea that outsourced titles would inherently suffer in quality in untrue. Many of their outsourced games in the past have turned out to be excellent, from Donkey Kong Country to F-Zero GX to Kirby's Epic Yarn to Sin & Punishment to Super Mario RPG.

Donkey Kong Country was a new spin off game and not part of an existing series(Up until that point, Donkey Kong was never a platformer like Mario was), much like Super Mario RPG(first Mario RPG ever).Same for Sin and Punishment, since it was a new IP.Ill give you the two other though.But they are more of an exception than anything.For every F Zero GX you have the horrible Mario and Zelda games that were outsourced, every Star Fox game released after 64, most Metroid games that werent Prime(in another words, that werent developed in house), and so on.Usually those outsourced games that use famous Nintendo IPs are the ones that venture outside of those IPs genres, like Mario + Rabbis(SRPG), the ones you said, and others that I cant quite remember now.Plus, you simply dont go "Ok lets outsource this" and begin developing the next day.You search for developers, they pitch their ideas, you need to approve them.And even then, you still have a team thats from Nintendo to overlooks the project so that it dosent turn to complete shit.The first part could take months, maybe more than a year, and the second part eats into Nintendo resources and manpower.

So yeah, you are being greedy.More like unreasonable really, since you think Nintendo needs to do a set amount of things, without actually reasoning if that goal is even reachable.Just because they are a videogame company dosent mean they can make a thousand games every year.Plus, that 3 years for development was an example I gave, its not unusual for games to take even more.BOTW took 5 years to make.Almost sure that Oddyssey took more than 3 years to make.Hell, even XC 2 took 3 years and a half to make.Retro is working on something for more than 4 years now, and we still havent heard a peep.Shit happens, and thats more true for products that are more creative in nature.You cant predict the unpredictable.

And many said that the Switch wouldnt be successful back when it launched.Look how that turned out.People said Zelda wasnt enough.Look how that turned out.People said that without third party support, Nintendo would be doomed.Look how that turned out(and third party are just getting better by the day).People will say, and they still do, that Smash and Pokemon wont be enough.And they will probably be wrong too.Why?Because if there is one thing more important than quantity, its quality.If Lets Go isnt as bad as people think, and if Smash is more awesome than it already looks, it will most likely carry the system, along with its evergreens and support it gets from others.

Last edited by Nautilus - on 01 August 2018

My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Solid numbers! Smash Bros, the Holiday Season, and maybe even Pokemon Let's Go should boost sales significantly, can't wait to get my hands on Ultimate.



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Nautilus said:
curl-6 said:

I'm not being "greedy" or thinking about what I want, (I don't even like Pokemon/Smash/Animal Crossing) I'm talking about what Nintendo themselves need to do if they want to hit the high Switch numbers they aspire to. (20m this FY, more than Wii lifetime)

The idea that outsourced titles would inherently suffer in quality in untrue. Many of their outsourced games in the past have turned out to be excellent, from Donkey Kong Country to F-Zero GX to Kirby's Epic Yarn to Sin & Punishment to Super Mario RPG.

Donkey Kong Country was a new spin off game and not part of an existing series(Up until that point, Donkey Kong was never a platformer like Mario was), much like Super Mario RPG(first Mario RPG ever).Same for Sin and Punishment, since it was a new IP.Ill give you the two other though.But they are more of an exception than anything.For every F Zero GX you have the horrible Mario and Zelda games that were outsourced, every Star Fox game released after 64, most Metroid games that werent Prime(in another words, that werent developed in house), and so on.Usually those outsourced games that use famous Nintendo IPs are the ones that venture outside of those IPs genres, like Mario + Rabbis(SRPG), the ones you said, and others that I cant quite remember now.Plus, you simply dont go "Ok lets outsource this" and begin developing the next day.You search for developers, they pitch their ideas, you need to approve them.And even then, you still have a team thats from Nintendo to overlooks the project so that it dosent turn to complete shit.The first part could take months, maybe more than a year, and the second part eats into Nintendo resources and manpower.

So yeah, you are being greedy.More like unreasonable really, since you think Nintendo needs to do a set amount of things, without actually reasoning if that goal is even reachable.Just because they are a videogame company dosent mean they can make a thousand games every year.Plus, that 3 years for development was an example I gave, its not unusual for games to take even more.BOTW took 5 years to make.Almost sure that Oddyssey took more than 3 years to make.Hell, even XC 2 took 3 years and a half to make.Retro is working on something for more than 4 years now, and we still havent heard a peep.Shit happens, and thats more true for products that are more creative in nature.You cant predict the unpredictable.

And many said that the Switch wouldnt be successful back when it launched.Look how that turned out.People said Zelda wasnt enough.Look how that turned out.People said that without third party support, Nintendo would be doomed.Look how that turned out(and third party are just getting better by the day).People will say, and they still do, that Smash and Pokemon wont be enough.And they will probably be wrong too.Why?Because if there is one thing more important than quantity, its quality.If Lets Go isnt as bad as people think, and if Smash is more awesome than it already looks, it will most likely carry the system, along with its evergreens and support it gets from others.

Being realistic about what a system needs to hit its parent company's own goals is "greedy" now? Proper supervision can keep outsourced projects on track, plenty of examples of this being done properly (hell, even Smash was outsourced to Namco Bandai) and Nintendo are already doing it, just not enough. They don't need to make "thousands" of games a year, they just need to make sure they get a killer app every 4 months or so. It's not hard, we know what franchises have this power, Nintendo just needs to do a better job of planning and prioritising them.



curl-6 said:
Nautilus said:

Not so unachievable?For a single company to release system sellers, which according to you are games on the level of BOTW, Odyssey, Mario Kart and Splatoon 2, which all take at the very least 3 years to make(with very rare exceptions), at a pace of 1 every 4 months?So 3 huge ass games that takes hundreds of people to make?And at the same time devoting resources, which are finite mind you, since Nintendo is not God, to making lower tier franchises to diversy their catalogue, which also takes at least 3 years?And devoting resources to marketing, R&D research, updating past games and the console itself.Also jiggling betwenn their games and third party ones so those third party games have a shot of success and dont scare those developers away.Having people with the talent to actually make those games, because you know, you dont find talent anywhere?That all is not so unachievable?My my, you sure opened my eyes.Nintendo is really inneficcient.

Are you drunk or have you zero idea on how the industry works?Or are you simply dillusional?

Nothing delusional about it. It's a matter of planning. If games take 3 years to make, then start them 3 years in advance and plan 3 years ahead to avoid slumps. Hire more people to make them, there is no shortage of people skilled in video game creation. Prioritize games that will move systems like Animal Crossing over ones that won't, outsource lower tier titles to third parties to free up first party manpower. 

3 big system sellers a year isn't unreasonable at all. They've done it before, last year most notably, but also in several years of the Wii. There's no good reason they couldn't have had one ready for the first half of this year to bring it up to 3 along with Smash and Pokemon Let's Go, then have 2 more alongside traditional Pokemon for 2019. They know how long games take to make, they should've taken steps years ago to make sure 2018 and 2019 would have a steady tempo of heavy hitters. 

We know that Nintendo and Sony are different on consoles...

For Sony releasing games outside of holiday and spacing plus letting big 3rd party games for holiday without competing have been very successful. But since Nintendo is much stronger for Holiday they may concentrate around that more...

Do you think Nintendo would benefit from spreading?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Nautilus said:
curl-6 said:

I'm not being "greedy" or thinking about what I want, (I don't even like Pokemon/Smash/Animal Crossing) I'm talking about what Nintendo themselves need to do if they want to hit the high Switch numbers they aspire to. (20m this FY, more than Wii lifetime)

The idea that outsourced titles would inherently suffer in quality in untrue. Many of their outsourced games in the past have turned out to be excellent, from Donkey Kong Country to F-Zero GX to Kirby's Epic Yarn to Sin & Punishment to Super Mario RPG.

Donkey Kong Country was a new spin off game and not part of an existing series(Up until that point, Donkey Kong was never a platformer like Mario was), much like Super Mario RPG(first Mario RPG ever).Same for Sin and Punishment, since it was a new IP.Ill give you the two other though.But they are more of an exception than anything.For every F Zero GX you have the horrible Mario and Zelda games that were outsourced, every Star Fox game released after 64, most Metroid games that werent Prime(in another words, that werent developed in house), and so on.Usually those outsourced games that use famous Nintendo IPs are the ones that venture outside of those IPs genres, like Mario + Rabbis(SRPG), the ones you said, and others that I cant quite remember now.Plus, you simply dont go "Ok lets outsource this" and begin developing the next day.You search for developers, they pitch their ideas, you need to approve them.And even then, you still have a team thats from Nintendo to overlooks the project so that it dosent turn to complete shit.The first part could take months, maybe more than a year, and the second part eats into Nintendo resources and manpower.

So yeah, you are being greedy.More like unreasonable really, since you think Nintendo needs to do a set amount of things, without actually reasoning if that goal is even reachable.Just because they are a videogame company dosent mean they can make a thousand games every year.Plus, that 3 years for development was an example I gave, its not unusual for games to take even more.BOTW took 5 years to make.Almost sure that Oddyssey took more than 3 years to make.Hell, even XC 2 took 3 years and a half to make.Retro is working on something for more than 4 years now, and we still havent heard a peep.Shit happens, and thats more true for products that are more creative in nature.You cant predict the unpredictable.

And many said that the Switch wouldnt be successful back when it launched.Look how that turned out.People said Zelda wasnt enough.Look how that turned out.People said that without third party support, Nintendo would be doomed.Look how that turned out(and third party are just getting better by the day).People will say, and they still do, that Smash and Pokemon wont be enough.And they will probably be wrong too.Why?Because if there is one thing more important than quantity, its quality.If Lets Go isnt as bad as people think, and if Smash is more awesome than it already looks, it will most likely carry the system, along with its evergreens and support it gets from others.

Kaz doesn't see to have a problem being developing Gran Turismo for over 20 years.

You can outsource with quality, actually a lot of the assets on a lot of successful games are outsourced. And you can completely outsource games if you do due diligence and supervision you can acertain the end product is good.

Also Nintendo may hire a lot of people and not to speed up current games, but to have more subteams and increase the amount of games on pipeline. Also by managing the resources those subteams may work on steps of each project that need them and move on (how it is done on giant developers with multi team and project).



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Nautilus said:

Donkey Kong Country was a new spin off game and not part of an existing series(Up until that point, Donkey Kong was never a platformer like Mario was), much like Super Mario RPG(first Mario RPG ever).Same for Sin and Punishment, since it was a new IP.Ill give you the two other though.But they are more of an exception than anything.For every F Zero GX you have the horrible Mario and Zelda games that were outsourced, every Star Fox game released after 64, most Metroid games that werent Prime(in another words, that werent developed in house), and so on.Usually those outsourced games that use famous Nintendo IPs are the ones that venture outside of those IPs genres, like Mario + Rabbis(SRPG), the ones you said, and others that I cant quite remember now.Plus, you simply dont go "Ok lets outsource this" and begin developing the next day.You search for developers, they pitch their ideas, you need to approve them.And even then, you still have a team thats from Nintendo to overlooks the project so that it dosent turn to complete shit.The first part could take months, maybe more than a year, and the second part eats into Nintendo resources and manpower.

So yeah, you are being greedy.More like unreasonable really, since you think Nintendo needs to do a set amount of things, without actually reasoning if that goal is even reachable.Just because they are a videogame company dosent mean they can make a thousand games every year.Plus, that 3 years for development was an example I gave, its not unusual for games to take even more.BOTW took 5 years to make.Almost sure that Oddyssey took more than 3 years to make.Hell, even XC 2 took 3 years and a half to make.Retro is working on something for more than 4 years now, and we still havent heard a peep.Shit happens, and thats more true for products that are more creative in nature.You cant predict the unpredictable.

And many said that the Switch wouldnt be successful back when it launched.Look how that turned out.People said Zelda wasnt enough.Look how that turned out.People said that without third party support, Nintendo would be doomed.Look how that turned out(and third party are just getting better by the day).People will say, and they still do, that Smash and Pokemon wont be enough.And they will probably be wrong too.Why?Because if there is one thing more important than quantity, its quality.If Lets Go isnt as bad as people think, and if Smash is more awesome than it already looks, it will most likely carry the system, along with its evergreens and support it gets from others.

Kaz doesn't see to have a problem being developing Gran Turismo for over 20 years.

You can outsource with quality, actually a lot of the assets on a lot of successful games are outsourced. And you can completely outsource games if you do due diligence and supervision you can acertain the end product is good.

Also Nintendo may hire a lot of people and not to speed up current games, but to have more subteams and increase the amount of games on pipeline. Also by managing the resources those subteams may work on steps of each project that need them and move on (how it is done on giant developers with multi team and project).

And how has that been working for GT?Is the last 3 games as good as the first three games?Its his choice to keep developing all the games and only do that, Sakurai for example dosent let anyone else work on Smash, but they are the exceptions, and you dont make a rule by the exceptions(and even Sakurai makes other games from time to time).

And Nintendo does outsource projects.Smash 5 is being outsourced, Nintendo funded Bayonetta and are letting Platinum make it, Metroid Prime 4 is seemingly being made mostly by an outside team.But you need to have a tight control over these projects so that they dont get out of control, so you need to have personel watching over them.A company cant outsource dozens of projects at the same time because its not effective or even possible, by the reasons I already wrote in the other post.

Nintendo output is already greater than any other company.Expecting them to make games with the same output as 3 or 4 big companies combined, like Square and Sony, is unrealistic at best.Not to say that Nintendo is not expanding when needed.Monolith just opened a new studio for example, but Nintendo can only get so big.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

curl-6 said:
Nautilus said:

Donkey Kong Country was a new spin off game and not part of an existing series(Up until that point, Donkey Kong was never a platformer like Mario was), much like Super Mario RPG(first Mario RPG ever).Same for Sin and Punishment, since it was a new IP.Ill give you the two other though.But they are more of an exception than anything.For every F Zero GX you have the horrible Mario and Zelda games that were outsourced, every Star Fox game released after 64, most Metroid games that werent Prime(in another words, that werent developed in house), and so on.Usually those outsourced games that use famous Nintendo IPs are the ones that venture outside of those IPs genres, like Mario + Rabbis(SRPG), the ones you said, and others that I cant quite remember now.Plus, you simply dont go "Ok lets outsource this" and begin developing the next day.You search for developers, they pitch their ideas, you need to approve them.And even then, you still have a team thats from Nintendo to overlooks the project so that it dosent turn to complete shit.The first part could take months, maybe more than a year, and the second part eats into Nintendo resources and manpower.

So yeah, you are being greedy.More like unreasonable really, since you think Nintendo needs to do a set amount of things, without actually reasoning if that goal is even reachable.Just because they are a videogame company dosent mean they can make a thousand games every year.Plus, that 3 years for development was an example I gave, its not unusual for games to take even more.BOTW took 5 years to make.Almost sure that Oddyssey took more than 3 years to make.Hell, even XC 2 took 3 years and a half to make.Retro is working on something for more than 4 years now, and we still havent heard a peep.Shit happens, and thats more true for products that are more creative in nature.You cant predict the unpredictable.

And many said that the Switch wouldnt be successful back when it launched.Look how that turned out.People said Zelda wasnt enough.Look how that turned out.People said that without third party support, Nintendo would be doomed.Look how that turned out(and third party are just getting better by the day).People will say, and they still do, that Smash and Pokemon wont be enough.And they will probably be wrong too.Why?Because if there is one thing more important than quantity, its quality.If Lets Go isnt as bad as people think, and if Smash is more awesome than it already looks, it will most likely carry the system, along with its evergreens and support it gets from others.

Being realistic about what a system needs to hit its parent company's own goals is "greedy" now? Proper supervision can keep outsourced projects on track, plenty of examples of this being done properly (hell, even Smash was outsourced to Namco Bandai) and Nintendo are already doing it, just not enough. They don't need to make "thousands" of games a year, they just need to make sure they get a killer app every 4 months or so. It's not hard, we know what franchises have this power, Nintendo just needs to do a better job of planning and prioritising them.

lol.Curl, you are not being realistic.If you really think that what you are saying is realistic, you really need to start working on some big firm to know how hard is to get things done.And also, if you think that killer apps, games of such high quality that it convinces people that might be otherwise uninterested in said console to buy it, are so "easy" to make(that talent is so easy to find that you can outsource everything, that shit wont happen and you can do it in 3 years and not in 5, that maintaining a schedule and having enough big games to release at a set pace is "just" a matter of planning), then you ARE delusional, Im sorry.

Or you are just plain uneducated.If that is the case, I really recommend you study something like administration.To see how "easy" or "simple" is to run a company as big as Sony, MS or Nintendo.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1