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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Third party Switch ports don't necessarily need to sell as much as PS4 to be successful

jonathanalis said:
The problem is making the switch game takes resources that could have been used to develop the next ps4/one game.
Let's imagine:
A) 1 year of full workload of your team to create a ps4/one/pc game. Sells 5 million across the platforms.
B) 6 months of full team working on switch port, sells 1 million.
3 years of game production, the can: make 2 games, for all platforms(including switch port) , and sell 12 million...
Ou they can make 3 games in the same time (no switch port) and sell 15 million.
The second option is more profitable.

Anyway, I'm not saying that is like that, only that it is not that simple.

I think the solution would be Nintendo open some studios like panic button and offer to port the games to switch, with barely any effort from original team, to not occupy resources.
Do that at least for the key games.

Ports usually consume very little manpower in comparison to game development. But yes the logic is ok



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:

I didn't say it matter. But you can't with a straight face say that the success is equal between a version selling 10M and another 1M just because both did profit. You can say both were successful if they had good profit and got their sequence... but if the first didn't sell 10M there would be even a game to port to get the other 1M.

Nope didn't say they don't make bad decision or mistakes. What I said is that they aren't dumb, so when they decide to not make a port or a game is because they analysis had better profits on the decision they took (even if after occuring you can infer that the decision was wrong they didn't just choose thinking it was the worse option). Which is my point, when a port doesn't happen it isn't due to hate for Nintendo or dumbness of devs. Most people in VGC doesn't even administer any company to even have any idea of decision making process involved and just go on platform alliance to spout nosense on multiple conspiracy theories.

And here I thought that you already agreed that if a game skip Switch was because it probably wouldn't seel enough to justificate the port (which is covered on "3rd party doesn't sell on Nintendo"), you are just taking offense on a generalization that is more often than not true.

The people who make these decisions are human beings, and as such they make mistakes, miscalculations, and bad calls, just as all of us do sometimes. The Crash N.Sane Trilogy almost skipped the Switch; that would have been a bad call. Thankfully it was corrected in time, but if it had skipped the Switch, the anti-Nintendo crowd would've tried to justify it with nonsense like "it wouldn't have been worth their while porting it over so skipping Switch was the right choice."

Last edited by curl-6 - on 02 July 2018

curl-6 said:
DonFerrari said:

I didn't say it matter. But you can't with a straight face say that the success is equal between a version selling 10M and another 1M just because both did profit. You can say both were successful if they had good profit and got their sequence... but if the first didn't sell 10M there would be even a game to port to get the other 1M.

Nope didn't say they don't make bad decision or mistakes. What I said is that they aren't dumb, so when they decide to not make a port or a game is because they analysis had better profits on the decision they took (even if after occuring you can infer that the decision was wrong they didn't just choose thinking it was the worse option). Which is my point, when a port doesn't happen it isn't due to hate for Nintendo or dumbness of devs. Most people in VGC doesn't even administer any company to even have any idea of decision making process involved and just go on platform alliance to spout nosense on multiple conspiracy theories.

And here I thought that you already agreed that if a game skip Switch was because it probably wouldn't seel enough to justificate the port (which is covered on "3rd party doesn't sell on Nintendo"), you are just taking offense on a generalization that is more often than not true.

The people who make these decisions are human beings, and as such they make mistakes, miscalculations, and bad calls, just as all of us do sometimes. The Crash N.Sane Trilogy almost skipped the Switch; that would have been a bad call. Thankfully it was corrected in time, but if it had skipped the Switch, the anti-Nintendo crowd would've tried to justify it with nonsense like "it wouldn't have been worth their while porting it over so skipping Switch was the right choice."

In hindsight almost every decision can be determined good or bad or to show a better one... but at the time they were made I would willy to bet the ones making didn't thought they were bad and considering the general competence companies need to stay afloat (for example like 70% of companies go out of business in their first 1-5 years in Brazil) so no I refuse to accept the idea of they being DUMB. Making mistakes, sure. But being dumb or deciding against their profir because of childish hate is silly pro-Nintendo agenda.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

The people who make these decisions are human beings, and as such they make mistakes, miscalculations, and bad calls, just as all of us do sometimes. The Crash N.Sane Trilogy almost skipped the Switch; that would have been a bad call. Thankfully it was corrected in time, but if it had skipped the Switch, the anti-Nintendo crowd would've tried to justify it with nonsense like "it wouldn't have been worth their while porting it over so skipping Switch was the right choice."

In hindsight almost every decision can be determined good or bad or to show a better one... but at the time they were made I would willy to bet the ones making didn't thought they were bad and considering the general competence companies need to stay afloat (for example like 70% of companies go out of business in their first 1-5 years in Brazil) so no I refuse to accept the idea of they being DUMB. Making mistakes, sure. But being dumb or deciding against their profir because of childish hate is silly pro-Nintendo agenda.

When did I say they were dumb or acting out of childish hate? I simply said that they make mistakes sometimes, like every company and every human being.



Switch multiplats doesn't need to sell as much as the other consoles to be proven successful. However, they still need to sell enough to prove it was profitable to release it on that platform.



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jonathanalis said:
The problem is making the switch game takes resources that could have been used to develop the next ps4/one game.
Let's imagine:
A) 1 year of full workload of your team to create a ps4/one/pc game. Sells 5 million across the platforms.
B) 6 months of full team working on switch port, sells 1 million.
3 years of game production, the can: make 2 games, for all platforms(including switch port) , and sell 12 million...
Ou they can make 3 games in the same time (no switch port) and sell 15 million.
The second option is more profitable.

Anyway, I'm not saying that is like that, only that it is not that simple.

I think the solution would be Nintendo open some studios like panic button and offer to port the games to switch, with barely any effort from original team, to not occupy resources.
Do that at least for the key games.

Thats false, devs are making PS4/XB1 game in first place in any case, along way, later or maybe at begining they also deciding they want Switch version also, so that game would be made even without Switch in any case, and porting game thats primarily made for other platforms take much less resources and time than making brand new game for just one platform.

A) you cant relly make game for 1 year if we dont talk about small game or Indies.

B) So from start your math dont works, if they relly made new game only in 1 year buy full team, than Switch port buy hole team would made in less than 3 months. But reality is that full teams are working on brand new games for couple of years (usually 2-3 years), while ports are done buy much more smaller teams (like teams of 20-30 people) in 1 year maximum, and actually in most cases devs hiring companies outside like (like Panic Button for instance) to do such a ports while they can work on other (new) projects in same time.



Here we go again. Another person setting a low bar for success for nintendo. 😸 Of course, the ns doesn't need to sell as many copies of 3rd party games as the ps4 (due to big differences in player base) to be a success in the eyes of outsiders but a game needs to do well enough that devs have faith in the platform's potential in selling their games (future titles).

A game's actual success is determined by the dev's expectations of the game on a platform and not by achieving just any profit. If a dev wants higher profit margins, they might not be happy with a game just turning a profit.



Yes but given the lack of third party games on the Switch they should do better.



areason said:
Yes but given the lack of third party games on the Switch they should do better.

Which games in peticular should be doing better?

Most of the 3rd party support on Switch consists of indies, niche Japanese titles, kid/family titles & late ports/remasters.

None of these are really the type of games that scream huge sales and in most cases are doing pretty well.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

curl-6 said:
DonFerrari said:

In hindsight almost every decision can be determined good or bad or to show a better one... but at the time they were made I would willy to bet the ones making didn't thought they were bad and considering the general competence companies need to stay afloat (for example like 70% of companies go out of business in their first 1-5 years in Brazil) so no I refuse to accept the idea of they being DUMB. Making mistakes, sure. But being dumb or deciding against their profir because of childish hate is silly pro-Nintendo agenda.

When did I say they were dumb or acting out of childish hate? I simply said that they make mistakes sometimes, like every company and every human being.

Didn't say you said it, but just look to other post I answered here and also a lot of threads were pro-Nintendo fans call devs dumb and hateful for not porting a game over.

zorg1000 said:
areason said:
Yes but given the lack of third party games on the Switch they should do better.

Which games in peticular should be doing better?

Most of the 3rd party support on Switch consists of indies, niche Japanese titles, kid/family titles & late ports/remasters.

None of these are really the type of games that scream huge sales and in most cases are doing pretty well.

If they are those then your measure for success comparing to other platforms already get disproven by you.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."