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Forums - General Discussion - I'm tired of this overemphasis on diversity spilling into our entertainment.

LuccaCardoso1 said:

1. Is it really about talent, though? Let's see... 

From the top 100 grossing films in 2017, women represented:

  • 8% of directors
  • 10% or writers
  • 2% of cinematographers
  • 24% of producers
  • 14% of editors

From the top 250 highest grossing films in 2017, women represented only 3% of composers.

If you look at individual cases, you might say that a woman wasn't hired because she wasn't as good as a male that was applying for the same role, but when you look at the bigger picture it's undeniable that women are not given the same opportunity. To say that females are not hired because of lack of talent stops making sense when you look at these numbers.

 

2. Why does a character need a reason to be female, black, gay, or from any minority? Why does the homosexuality of a character need to have something to do with the story? I don't know if you know that, but in real life, people are gay just because that's how they are. There's no reason for it. I mean, most main characters are white straight males, and there's usually no reason for it. If you're really for diversity, stop asking for reasons for people to be from a minority.

Funny you mentioned the new Ghostbusters being all female for no reason. The old Ghostbusters were all male, and I don't think they ever explained why. By the way, they are different characters. It's not like they transformed the old male characters into female ones.

 

3. I don't think anyone's arguing against that. Diversity doesn't lead obligatorily to stereotypes. You just need to have a decent writer and they won't rely on that.

 

I'm all for adapting stories, to be honest. I mean, if you want to keep them up to date, you have to change them. Especially old stories, where the characters tend to be all white males, and where the females and minorities tend to have few to no part in the main plot. If you want your world to be believable, you need to have minorities, because, you know, they exist in real life.

1 - Capitalist companies do what brings them more money. Only moron would hire one that gives him lesser results.

And I love all the accusation of behavior on Holywood as it screams hypocrisi since they do their agenda push for minorities but then get accusated of not being diverse on their own yard.

2 - I'll risk explaining for the 3rd time... no one see a need to make it obvious and explicity that someone is straight or make he declare it, so same is expected for gay or other non-cis. In fact you can assume that anyone that doesn't show his sexuality is cis or non-cis. As in real life. I have several gay friends that unless you are intimate to them you wouldn't know. So if they were to show in a 2h movie you really wouldn't have a reason to force them showing it. At most light suggestions.

3 - This is ridiculous. If you history takes place on middle age for it to be believable it must be accurate at the time population not today.

I largely prefer new stories, but if you must, rewritten a know story basis to the current time, and make it current time.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Qwark said:
the-pi-guy said:

The issue I have with this is what proof is there that this is happening?  

I might decide with my own free will that my next game is going to have a female main character, because that is what I want to do.  And some will ridicule me for "forcing diversity".  

I doubt anyone ridiculed Uncharted LL or Horizon for having a female lead. You know why because both where great games. Same goes for the movie wonder woman. Nobody is claiming every female lead or LBQT inclusion is by definition forced diversity.

 

It gets more tricky when games especially try to involve themselves in politics and strive to be blatantly and very visibly to show look how PC we are. The best example remains fantastic four where they made a lead character black, while he was the brother of a white sister with the excuse that he was adopted. Forced diversity is usually just a filthy cash grab move that promotes poor writing, by including minorities so that they will consume that media.

I may be wrong but they actually gave them a black father for the twins to be different color.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Azuren said:
Angelus said:

Well that's easy, because the majority of female characters are written simply to revolve around, and enrich the existence of male characters. Obviously there's exceptions, but more often than not that's the case. Their characters are often defined by little more than how they influence some guy, which is ultimately quite shallow. So why wouldn't women want more strong female leads, or just strong female characters in general?

Just because because there doesn't necessarily have to be a reason for why a character is written as/cast as male, female, black, white, etc.... doesn't mean there aren't valid reasons for people wanting to see more of certain representation, or even just better written, more nuanced versions for those they do get.

But you just said it doesn't matter. Are you saying it does, but only when it's women?

If that's what you read, then you are either misinterpreting, or purposefully twisting it. I was quite clear. I'll humor you though, and put it another way.

Let's say 100 different people are writing 100 different books. All those authors can write their characters to be whatever race, gender, and sexual orientation they want. They don't have to justify those choices anyone, it's their vision, they can write what they want. Now lets say 90 of those books all have straight white males as protagonists. That's fine. I mean the quality of the writing obviously will vary, as it always does. Some characters will be great, others not so much, but that's just how it goes. Every story/character isn't a hit. The other 10 books feature some assortment protagonists that are not straight white males. Men and women of various races, genders, and sexuality. Whatever. These 10 books also feature various degrees of good/bad writing. 

Now, could you maybe see how someone might read all these books and say "wow, I read quite a lot of great stories about straight white guys. Good stuff. Wish there were a few more good ones about 'X' though." It's not that a woman, black man, or whoever would read these books and think "man, I really wish those great stories about the straight white guy didn't exist!" Of course not. If it's a great story, it's a great story. At the same time, they can still want to see more great stories of whatever it is that they identify best with, because again, of course. Who doesn't want to see more great stories of people they can most easily relate to?

Last edited by Angelus - on 26 May 2018

Shadow1980 said:

My thoughts on so-called "forced diversity"?

So long as the end product is good, who cares what race, gender, or sexual orientation the characters are? I honestly don't get people who obsess over these things. Whether it's people complaining about Spider-Man: Homecoming's majority non-white cast (Whites not a majority in Queens? Stop the presses!) or other people complaining about the Major in the live-action Ghost in the Shell movie being played by the very white Scarlett Johannsen instead of a Japanese actress, it gets old, quick. Judge the film, show, or game on its own merits, not because it has too few or too many minorities for your tastes.

For example, the Ghostbusters reboot wasn't bad because it made the main characters all women. It was bad despite that. The movie had a bad script, bad direction, lackluster effects, and humor that lacked the humor and charm of the original. But there's no reason an all-female Ghostbusters crew couldn't have worked.

This all day, everyday! 



LuccaCardoso1 said:

1. Is it really about talent, though? Let's see... 

From the top 100 grossing films in 2017, women represented:

  • 8% of directors
  • 10% or writers
  • 2% of cinematographers
  • 24% of producers
  • 14% of editors

From the top 250 highest grossing films in 2017, women represented only 3% of composers.

If you look at individual cases, you might say that a woman wasn't hired because she wasn't as good as a male that was applying for the same role, but when you look at the bigger picture it's undeniable that women are not given the same opportunity. To say that females are not hired because of lack of talent stops making sense when you look at these numbers.

 

2. Why does a character need a reason to be female, black, gay, or from any minority? Why does the homosexuality of a character need to have something to do with the story? I don't know if you know that, but in real life, people are gay just because that's how they are. There's no reason for it. I mean, most main characters are white straight males, and there's usually no reason for it. If you're really for diversity, stop asking for reasons for people to be from a minority.

Funny you mentioned the new Ghostbusters being all female for no reason. The old Ghostbusters were all male, and I don't think they ever explained why. By the way, they are different characters. It's not like they transformed the old male characters into female ones.

 

3. I don't think anyone's arguing against that. Diversity doesn't lead obligatorily to stereotypes. You just need to have a decent writer and they won't rely on that.

 

I'm all for adapting stories, to be honest. I mean, if you want to keep them up to date, you have to change them. Especially old stories, where the characters tend to be all white males, and where the females and minorities tend to have few to no part in the main plot. If you want your world to be believable, you need to have minorities, because, you know, they exist in real life.

Because straight white male is the default and anything else is "forced diversity"



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Torillian said:
Slimebeast said:
It's disgusting.

No matter where you look, almost everything is infested with multikulti now.

Drastic demographic change in society where native Europeans are soon in minority in their own countries, the increased violent crimes, the heavy financial burdens, the twisted morals of modern society where perversion is being praised and where criminals aren't punished. But this not enough for them.

On top of this deterioration of our societies, politicians, the public offices, academia and all the lying media have taken on as their mission to evangelize about the greatness of multiculture and force the population to not just accept but to embrace and praise the multicultural project. Dishonestly downplaying all the negative effects and shutting down and hunting every critic and dissident.

And even this is not enough. They won't even leave pop culture alone (although they're not leaving our cultural heritage and history alone either, just recently one publically funded Swedish scientist made the world news by claiming that Viking burial practice was influenced by islam so much that it became popular to weave Kufic patterns and islamic messages in cloth and to believe in muslim paradise, in the heartland of the Swedish vikings in Uppsala and Birka).

Wether it's remakes of old stories or new creations the pattern is the same no matter if it destroys the context. Multikulti is obligatory. Homogenous is forbidden even if it's historically accurate (see the controversy about BBC's black Achilles TV-sries, or the video game Kingdome Come lacking people of color in 15 century Bohemia as an example).

There just must be female soldiers or strong women doing any manly tasks, LGBT-people not just represented but remarkably visible, and obviously huge proportions of immigrants and people of color.

Modern culture and entertainment has become cynical, plastic, hollow and artificial. And extremely moralistic and preachy.

So what is your hypothesis on the origins of viking burial garments that have "ali allah" writen in them?  You appear to present only an argument of incredulity (I find it hard to believe so it can't be true) but if that's your only reason to disagreeing with their interpretation of the evidence you should rethink your own biases. 

No, the burden of proof is on the scientist who presented the theory. And her hypothesis has been debunked by other archeologists and historians already.

It was a ridiculous and unplausible theory to begin with. First, it's remarkable how the alleged text would have been intricately embedded in a popular Viking pattern of the 8th and 9th century Scandinavia in a quite hidden and unobvious manner. Further, the alleged words would only make sense and be readable if you had a mirror, which is overall very rare in history and probably unheard of in the time period and region in question. And the name "Allah" wasn't there even according to the scientist herself. If you could extract any word from the textual pattern, and you'll need a lot of wishful thinking to achieve that, it was "Illah", not "Allah".

And the fabrics with the common Viking patterns in question are from the 8th or 9th century, while the Kufic script that sparked her hypothesis to begin with didn't emerge until the 15th century.

It's extremely bad science and embarrassing.

But so desperately this typical Swedish multiculturalist wanted there to be muslim traces in our Viking heritage that she combed through dozens of old finds of fabrics and had to come up with such unlikely explanations. Our museums are filled to the brim with leftists like her, who feel that their primary mission is to diminish the history and heritage of Swedes while doing everything to make our immigrants feel included and feel they're part of Swedish history.

The only reason and motivation for this debacle is the brainwash of multiculturalism going on in Western society.



Angelus said:
Azuren said:

But you just said it doesn't matter. Are you saying it does, but only when it's women?

If that's what you read, then you are either misinterpreting, or purposefully twisting it. I was quite clear. I'll humor you though, and put it another way.

Let's say 100 different people are writing 100 different books. All those authors can write their characters to be whatever race, gender, and sexual orientation they want. They don't have to justify those choices anyone, it's their vision, they can write what they want. Now lets say 90 of those books all have straight white males as protagonists. That's fine. I mean the quality of the writing obviously will vary, as it always does. Some characters will be great, others not so much, but that's just how it goes. Every story/character isn't a hit. The other 10 books feature some assortment protagonists that are not straight white males. Men and women of various races, genders, and sexuality. Whatever. These 10 books also feature various degrees of good/bad writing. 

Now, could you maybe see how someone might read all these books and say "wow, I read quite a lot of great stories about straight white guys. Good stuff. Wish there were a few more good ones about 'X' though." It's not that a woman, black man, or whoever would read these books and think "man, I really wish those great stories about the straight white guy didn't exist!" Of course not. If it's a great story, it's a great story. At the same time, they can still want to see more great stories of whatever it is that they identify best with, because again, of course. Who doesn't want to see more great stories of people they can most easily relate to?

Either it matters or it doesn't. Pick one.



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dx11332sega said:
I dont care for new IP's featuring woman or minorities . I just hate when an old established IP gets forced Diversity ? Leave the originals . Do that to new IP's and established IP's that were woman like Wonder woman but Leave my ghost busters alone etc. and do good for everyone 50/50 New IP's having white males leads the other New IP movies have female and minorities leads and leave old Ip's as they should like a white batman and white superman and white woman wonder woman . I'm hispanic btw

That's not how to world works. The world is not 50% white straight males and 50% women and minorities. There are actually more women than men in the US. The percentage of white straight males is probably around 35% in the US, considering that ~18% of all Americans are black or Asian, ~17% are from Hispanic/Latino descent (they can be white, though), and 4.1% of Americans consider themselves as non-heterosexual (that number is probably higher, though, as people might omit this information for fear of social pressure. Internet surveys usually give higher percentages, as they guarantee anonymity).

Btw, your Ghostbusters are fine. They didn't replace those old characters with females and pretended that they didn't exist. They created new characters in the same universe. Superman is an alien, not a white man. He was created white because he was created in the 1930s.


B O I

LuccaCardoso1 said:
dx11332sega said:
I dont care for new IP's featuring woman or minorities . I just hate when an old established IP gets forced Diversity ? Leave the originals . Do that to new IP's and established IP's that were woman like Wonder woman but Leave my ghost busters alone etc. and do good for everyone 50/50 New IP's having white males leads the other New IP movies have female and minorities leads and leave old Ip's as they should like a white batman and white superman and white woman wonder woman . I'm hispanic btw

That's not how to world works. The world is not 50% white straight males and 50% women and minorities. There are actually more women than men in the US. The percentage of white straight males is probably around 35% in the US, considering that ~18% of all Americans are black or Asian, ~17% are from Hispanic/Latino descent (they can be white, though), and 4.1% of Americans consider themselves as non-heterosexual (that number is probably higher, though, as people might omit this information for fear of social pressure. Internet surveys usually give higher percentages, as they guarantee anonymity).

Btw, your Ghostbusters are fine. They didn't replace those old characters with females and pretended that they didn't exist. They created new characters in the same universe. Superman is an alien, not a white man. He was created white because he was created in the 1930s.

Little bit of a problem with your numbers. The numbers of the world matter significantly less than target audience.



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Azuren said:
Angelus said:

snip

Either it matters or it doesn't. Pick one.

Can't decide if you're trying very hard, or not at all. Either way, I think we're done here.