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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo starts moving to a Wii-like “non-gamer” strategy for the Switch

contestgamer said:

MM wasnt creative at all... except being the most creative Zelda ever. I dont care about the developers, their job is to work as much as they can be worked to create triple A games. In the 90s and early 00s you routinely had developers in Japan sleeping in their offices, working 20 hours shifts, etc to get things done. Now you have this westernized notion of workers rights entering japan as well which is leading to a decline in work hours and productivity. 

Game developers aren't robots, they're human beings like you and me. Hard work is always important, but working respectable hours and taking your time on a project is also more important than a mandatory studio-wide death march. The latter is how you get companies like Konami, who treats their developers like shit and makes working conditions a nightmare. Voluntary Crunch-time is one thing, but treating your creators and programmers like slaves is completely different. 



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TheMisterManGuy said:
contestgamer said:

MM wasnt creative at all... except being the most creative Zelda ever. I dont care about the developers, their job is to work as much as they can be worked to create triple A games. In the 90s and early 00s you routinely had developers in Japan sleeping in their offices, working 20 hours shifts, etc to get things done. Now you have this westernized notion of workers rights entering japan as well which is leading to a decline in work hours and productivity. 

Game developers aren't robots, they're human beings like you and me. Hard work is always important, but working respectable hours and taking your time on a project is also more important than a mandatory studio-wide death march. The latter is how you get companies like Konami, who treats their developers like shit and makes working conditions a nightmare. Voluntary Crunch-time is one thing, but treating your creators and programmers like slaves is completely different. 

It worked in the past. Even Nintendo worked their employees to the brink in the 90s and had phenomenal results. Game releases were constant and high quality. You just need to push them to the max and if they cant handle it they can leave or you fire them. "Respectable hours" isnt respectable, you need to work them the max you possibly can and you will get shorter release schedules and still HQ content like in the 90s



contestgamer said:
abronn627 said:

You forgot to add “then people will complain that Nintendo doesn’t create new IPs and are just milking their old IPs”.

They will make new IPs, they made plenty in the 80s and 90s and those developers were worked to the point that many of their health collapsed. It doesnt effect innovation. Infact their sadness/pressure reflected in Zelda MM and made it a better game as a result.

And they can still make new IP and MM types games if they're given respectable working conditions. 



TheMisterManGuy said:
contestgamer said:

They will make new IPs, they made plenty in the 80s and 90s and those developers were worked to the point that many of their health collapsed. It doesnt effect innovation. Infact their sadness/pressure reflected in Zelda MM and made it a better game as a result.

And they can still make new IP and MM types games if they're given respectable working conditions. 

Yeah but it will take longer. If theyre working 10 hours instead of 16 we're talking an over 50% delay. Instead of 3 years we get 5 years. That's wrong. They should work the maximum hours they can endure, and we will get more games in a timely fashion.



contestgamer said: 

It worked in the past. Even Nintendo worked their employees to the brink in the 90s and had phenomenal results. Game releases were constant and high quality. You just need to push them to the max and if they cant handle it they can leave or you fire them. "Respectable hours" isnt respectable, you need to work them the max you possibly can and you will get shorter release schedules and still HQ content like in the 90s

What are you even basing Nintendo having miserable working conditions off of anyway. I mean, Nintendo's always demanded a lot of hard-work and professionalism from their staff, sure, but they were never Konami levels of asshole dictatorship. Making AAA games all day every day is unrealistic as AAA games take a lot more money and time to make these days. You need to give teams a level of flexibly in this regard. Let them experiment with smaller, lighter weight projects, in between the wait, and let the developers take their time with making these games polished, rather than trying to rush out a BotW sized game every year. 



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TheMisterManGuy said:

contestgamer said: 

It worked in the past. Even Nintendo worked their employees to the brink in the 90s and had phenomenal results. Game releases were constant and high quality. You just need to push them to the max and if they cant handle it they can leave or you fire them. "Respectable hours" isnt respectable, you need to work them the max you possibly can and you will get shorter release schedules and still HQ content like in the 90s

What are you even basing Nintendo having miserable working conditions off of anyway. I mean, Nintendo's always demanded a lot of hard-work and professionalism from their staff, sure, but they were never Konami levels of asshole dictatorship. Making AAA games all day every day is unrealistic as AAA games take a lot more money and time to make these days. You need to give teams a level of flexibly in this regard. Let them experiment with smaller, lighter weight projects, in between the wait, and let the developers take their time with making these games polished, rather than trying to rush out a BotW sized game every year. 

They had pretty brutal working conditions in the 80s and 90s. A number of suicides/health collapses, etc. It wasnt specific to Nintendo though (Sega was really brutal too). But it gets results. The developers dont need flexibility, what they need is a good kick in the ass and if they dont perform they're fired. Pretty good incentive in a culture where being fired is a source of great shame.  

 

 

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Last edited by Bristow9091 - on 08 May 2018

contestgamer said:
TheMisterManGuy said:

And they can still make new IP and MM types games if they're given respectable working conditions. 

Yeah but it will take longer. If theyre working 10 hours instead of 16 we're talking an over 50% delay. Instead of 3 years we get 5 years. That's wrong. They should work the maximum hours they can endure, and we will get more games in a timely fashion.

So? I'd rather a developer take their time to make the game a polished experience than rush out a buggy, glitch-y mess. Plus, not every game needs to be AAA caliber. Letting developers experiment with smaller scale projects is what gives us unique stuff like Brain Age to fill in the gaps. 



contestgamer said:

They had pretty brutal working conditions in the 80s and 90s. A number of suicides/health collapses, etc. It wasnt specific to Nintendo though (Sega was really brutal too). But it gets results. The developers dont need flexibility, what they need is a good kick in the ass and if they dont perform they're fired. Pretty good incentive in a culture where being fired is a source of great shame.  

Then give me a source. Give me some data that actually backs up that claim because it just feels like your pulling this out of your ass. 



TheMisterManGuy said:
contestgamer said:

Yeah but it will take longer. If theyre working 10 hours instead of 16 we're talking an over 50% delay. Instead of 3 years we get 5 years. That's wrong. They should work the maximum hours they can endure, and we will get more games in a timely fashion.

So? I'd rather a developer take their time to make the game a polished experience than rush out a buggy, glitch-y mess. Plus, not every game needs to be AAA caliber. Letting developers experiment with smaller scale projects is what gives us unique stuff like Brain Age to fill in the gaps. 

Brain age... I'm sorry but someone else can make brain age, I'd rather get the next Zelda a year early. They're not in the same universe and I know which most would prefer. Brain age is a waste of Nintendos talent. Their talent demands AAA perfection. Indies can deliver the low budget casual stuff. Again MM wasnt buggy and Nintendo gave the devs 1 year to make it. In fact they put them under such pressure with 16-20 hour work days that many of the developers developed depression and health complications which made its way in to the game in the form of tonality, characters, dialogue. etc. It tried and tested and works.



Does that mean more FIFA and the first appearance of COD in Switch? Oh interesting.

Jokes aside, the games catalog that is in Switch is probably better than the Wii, so I do not see why people are overreacting to this news. I will wait for the E3 to judge but nothing so far (maybe Labo) has suggested that Nintendo plans to abandon the traditional player, there are a lot of games announced for this kind of audience.

Lately I am detecting that there are some people wishing to see and promote any negative news towards Nintendo or Switch. It seems that the success of Switch does not like some people.

Last edited by alejollorente10 - on 07 May 2018

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