Azuren said:
spemanig said:
What am I baiting you towards, exactly? How can I be short-handing admission to good points when my jokes precede your replies? I don't care if Kuririn's game count surpasses all other game franchises combined - he's not a game character. 2 years or 2 minutes after chapter 1 is still after chapter 1. His existence in games still exists as adaptations to embellish the manga. Star Wars has had many more games than on screen appearances, completely eclipsing DB in ratio, and has had a more influential impact on the medium than all of the DB games combined, which have universally been considered mediocre to bad in critical reception literally until this most recent one, being the first to touch 80% on metacritic in the franchise's entire over three decades in the medium. The only reason a game didn't come out sooner for Star Wars is because games as a medium wasn't even popular in the west when Star Wars first came out, and even then its first game predates the first DB game by a few years. All of that is to say that literally none of that makes Star Wars deserving of representation in a franchise about celebrating video game franchises, so DB doesn't even get a seat at the table. When DB stops being an adaptation, it can be in Smash. Since that's impossible, so too shall Freiza's chances in Smash be.
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Single phrase responses repeated in spite of points made is not only bait, but it's borderline trollish. It's not adding anything to the conversation, regardless of how you attempt to justify it. Your jokes don't precede anything, they periodically dot the conversation and also populate posts in response to other people with the implication to mock (such as your response to VGP).
And again, so he can be adapted from manga to anime and be both, but not from manga/anime to video games and also be a video game character? His existence in anime is to embellish the manga, the same reasoning you give for why he can't be a video game character as well. Your logic is flawed from the get-go, and you'll honestly only continue making a fool of yourself if you continue that line of contradictory thought.
Star Wars has had a large number of games, yes, but they've had even more comics and novels.
Oh, so games have to have a good MC to count as games now. I'm sure that's a debate you're willing to have.
Oh, so when Dragon Ball stops making games that are only adaptions of the anime, it can be a video game franchise? You mean like Dragon Ball Z Gaiden, Heroes, or Xenoverse?
Honestly, everytime you try to make a point, it's a mess of contradiction and ignorance of the Dragon Ball franchise. It might be a better idea for you to just say something along the lines of "I just don't want Goku in Smash" rather than attempt to disprove him as a video game character.
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I mean, if you think it's trollish you're just misunderstanding of the function of the comment. The only argument against Goku being in Smash is that he isn't a game character. The original post was parodying anyone bringing up that argument in a thread who's OP tried to block that argument in the first place. You just kept falling into that hole where it stopped being parody anymore. I haven't contradicted myself at all.
I'm not saying he's both. He's a manga character. He's been adapted into anime. He's been adapted into video games. My logic isn't flawed, your comprehension is. I explained this when I went into detail about what was joke and what was serious. The "goku is in the anime medium" was followed by "goku is in the not in video games medium." This was joke. First, and let me be obvious, there is no "not in video games" medium. Second, and this is more nuanced, anime is an artistic movement, not a medium. Anime is just cartoons. Its medium is animation as a whole. The entire post is absurdist for the sake of being absurdist. Follow along.
Goku is not an anime character and I never thought he was. That's what that post was clarifying. Goku is also, random fact, not a video game character. In case you were wondering.
You missed the entire point of me bringing up Star Wars. It doesn't matter how much other stuff they have or how often it appears in video games. It's an adaptation. Smash isn't a franchise that celebrates adaptations, no matter how celebrated those adaptations are in video games. If the point you got out of that was that games aren't games unless they score well, I don't know how to help you. You're just not reading. The point was that anyone could easily argue that Star Wars is more deserving of a spot in Smash because it's more important in games, more influential in games, better critically received in games, and has a higher ratio in games when compared to DBZ. And even then it would amount to the franchise still having absolutely no place in Smash because all of those games are adaptations. If you're going to include comics and novels in Star Wars, you have to include the same in DB, except you shouldn't because none of that matters. Goku would still not be a video game character.
And because you don't seem to understand this, an adaptation has nothing to do with not creating original stories. It's about not using original universes. Gaiden, Heroes, and Xenoverse adapt characters, elements, and the entire setting of an established franchise. They are still adaptations. KOTOR is still an adaptation. Books and comics in the EU are still adaptations. Dragon Ball Fighter Z is still an adapta- well, you get the point. Actually, you've made it clear that you have a misinterpretation problem so you probably don't. Dragon Ball Fighter Z is still an adaptation. That's what I was going to say.
I'm not trying to disprove him as a video game character. You and I both know he's not one and we both know why. He appeared somewhere else first and that's where his main series lies. I don't need to disprove that and you don't need me to. We both know Goku isn't a video game character. We both know that it doesn't matter what kind of character he is in its place. What's working you up is why that means he doesn't belong in Smash. You think he can be in Smash despite not being a video game character. I think he shouldn't be in Smash solely because he is not a video game character. There is no other argument.
I've explained now, in varying degrees of seriousness, why from both Dragon Ball's perspective and Smash's. I understand your points and you mostly understand mine. Or maybe you don't - I don't care this is still fun. The conflict is that you think DB's legacy in this medium should override his origins elsewhere, and I know that completely misses the point of Smash. Again and again and again, Smash is a celebration of the fact that video games did not need franchises like Dragon Ball or Star Wars to rise in prominence. We didn't need the crutch of adaptations from more popular mediums with already established and popular characters to rise in prominence. Smash celebrates the fact that video games independently produced iconic franchises unique to them. Throwing an adaptational character like Goku in that undermines its very nucleus. Goku has been part of many crossover projects celebrating DB's own niche, including games like J-Stars. You know why Ash Ketchum isn't in J-Stars???
Well it's actually because Pokemon was never published in Shonen Jump, so moot point, but it's also because J-Stars celebrates the history of shonen manga. Pokemon is a video game franchise, despite having a rich history in both shonen manga and anime. But really it's the Jump thing, I mean I doubt you'll see Saitama there anytime soon. Really, that was a moot point. I'm going to keep clarifying that I do in fact know it's a moot point because you're a non-video game character of habit.
