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Forums - Movies & TV - The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

thismeintiel said:
eva01beserk said:

So this already passed a billion WW?

Yep. And no one really doubted it would. The point is how far below TFA that TLJ has fallen. Quite a bit of which has to do with many fans not happy about the quality of the film, hence they aren't giving it the rewatches that TFA received. 

Making money is the last bastion to defend the movie. Just mention how hard is the fall comoared to the previous and the problems that the bad reception represents for the next episode.



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Pavolink said:
thismeintiel said:

Yep. And no one really doubted it would. The point is how far below TFA that TLJ has fallen. Quite a bit of which has to do with many fans not happy about the quality of the film, hence they aren't giving it the rewatches that TFA received. 

Making money is the last bastion to defend the movie. Just mention how hard is the fall comoared to the previous and the problems that the bad reception represents for the next episode.

Yeah the badness of this movie isn't going to manifest itself in how much money it makes. It's going to manifest iteself in the demand for the next movies.

Personally, my opinion is that Star Wars is boring now. I'm not gonna watch more of it.



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mZuzek said:
Azuren said:

So then you admit that every important male was killed or neutered.

And would you like to know what happens when male role models are axed in reboots/continuations of cult classics that appealed to primarily male audiences? You get Ghostbusters. I don't think Disney has the capacity to make a movie that bad, but all the have to do now is kill Chewy and they'll be pretty close.

To be fair the role they gave Chewie in this movie was probably worse than killing him off.

Other than that, yeah, way to miss the point entirely. I agree with mostly everything Angelus said here, pretty insightful stuff (as much as it pains me to agree with a GotG Vol. 2 hater!).

Oh and dudes, stop trying to make this movie out as a failure. Being down 30% over The Force Awakens isn't anything out of the ordinary, it's actually quite expected. I don't think any Star Wars film (or any film altogether) is coming close to TFA's numbers for a long time, the middle chapter in the trilogy was definitely the one that wouldn't do that. The only real impact this negative reception might have on Episode IX's box office numbers, which definitely could be lower as many of the Last Jedi haters will be giving up on the franchise now (I certainly am) - and even then, it's still pretty much guaranteed to do at least $1b in the absolute worst-case scenario, so... please, just stop. These movies are not commercial failures, regardless of whether you want them to be or not.

Who said anything about failure? That is a strawman that many who like the movie are clinging onto. There's a difference between a flop and a big disappointment.  Take GOTG Volume 2 for instance. If it had been down from the original by ~20%, down by ~$155M, would it have been a flop? No. But, it would have been a big disappointment, and would have made Disney/Marvel take note that there was something they needed to do to make sure that didn't  happen, again.  

The point is no one expected it to be this low. Definitely not Disney. TFA showed just how big SW is in this new market. Hell, even a spinoff could make over $1B. Sure, I'm positive Disney expected some decline in BO revenue, as TLJ wouldn't meet the levels of hype that TFA did. Though, it nearly did opening weekend, being down only $79M WW, down 15%.

After that weekend, I bet they were thinking $1.7B, maybe even $1.75-$1.8B, was in the bag. But, it continued to drop, faster than TFA, and now it's down $461.2M, or 31%. If the 31% down holds true, it won't hit $1.5B, ending ~$1.43B. Personally, I think the drop could hit 35%-38%, ending at $1.28B-$1.34B.  Definitely not a flop, but a big disappointment. 



mZuzek said:
thismeintiel said:

Who said anything about failure? That is a strawman that many who like the movie are clinging onto. There's a difference between a flop and a big disappointment.  Take GOTG Volume 2 for instance. If it had been down from the original by ~20%, down by ~$155M, would it have been a flop? No. But, it would have been a big disappointment, and would have made Disney/Marvel take note that there was something they needed to do to make sure that didn't  happen, again.  

The point is no one expected it to be this low. Definitely not Disney. TFA showed just how big SW is in this new market. Hell, even a spinoff could make over $1B. Sure, I'm positive Disney expected some decline in BO revenue, as TLJ wouldn't meet the levels of hype that TFA did. Though, it nearly did opening weekend, being down only $79M WW, down 15%.

After that weekend, I bet they were thinking $1.7B, maybe even $1.75-$1.8B, was in the bag. But, it continued to drop, faster than TFA, and now it's down $461.2M, or 31%. If the 31% down holds true, it won't hit $1.5B, ending ~$1.43B. Personally, I think the drop could hit 35%-38%, ending at $1.28B-$1.34B.  Definitely not a flop, but a big disappointment. 

Except, these aren't very comparable at all.

GotG Vol. 2 was always expected to do better than the first one, because it was a new franchise that people didn't know about when the first one came out, so Vol. 2 carried with it a lot of hype the previous one didn't have (in fact most predicted it to fail back then). Also, if it was down by ~$155m as you say, I think it wouldn't be a stretch to call it a flop as a worldwide box office of $600m for a movie that costed $200m to make (plus marketing costs and all that stuff) is actually not too great. In fact, at $860m it was seen as a mild disappointment by some, as the movie was generally expected to at least come close to the billion mark - something that ultimately didn't happen probably exactly because a good chunk of people didn't like it.

The Last Jedi was never expected to come close to The Force Awakens because TFA had insane levels of hype, and that was something the third Star Wars in 3 years was never going to match. I think around $1.5b was always the reasonable expectation for this one, and if it fails to get there then sure, it's (just as GotG Vol. 2,) a mild disappointment.

I understand where you're coming from - I too hate this movie and the general direction Disney has taken the franchise in, so my stupid selfish side also wants it to fail. But the reality is that it just didn't.

GOTG could have flopped, there's nothing guaranteed at the box office. Also, a movie has to do around twice its budget, plus marketing, to break even. GOTG Vol. 2's marketing budget probably wasn't that massive. For it to break even, it probably needed $500M or so. Like I said, ~$620M wouldn't have been considered a flop. Just a big disappointment. One that Disney/Marvel would want to correct.

Again, not a failure, a big disappointment. And even with the MASSIVE amount of hype that came from TFA, TLJ was able to open just 15% down from it. It had a ton of hype, as well. Unfortunately, it didn't live up to the hype. If it had been a good movie,  its drops wouldn't have been so drastic and it could have stayed ~15%-18% below TFA. I'm pretty sure that's what Disney was expecting, especially after that great 1st weekend. Hell, if it had been a masterpiece, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't drop a little under that 15%.

The fact remains, many fans weren't happy with it, so they aren't watching it a 2nd or 3rd or 4th time, like they did TFA. 



LOL

A billion dollars in 17 days.
Strongest performer in 2017's Domestic Box Office.
Poised to surpass Rogue One before TLJ even gets released in China.
On pace to casually crack The Top Ten grossing movies worldwide.

All this despite plenty of competing movies aimed at the same target audience. The fans have spoken, indeed!



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thismeintiel said:
mZuzek said:

To be fair the role they gave Chewie in this movie was probably worse than killing him off.

Other than that, yeah, way to miss the point entirely. I agree with mostly everything Angelus said here, pretty insightful stuff (as much as it pains me to agree with a GotG Vol. 2 hater!).

Oh and dudes, stop trying to make this movie out as a failure. Being down 30% over The Force Awakens isn't anything out of the ordinary, it's actually quite expected. I don't think any Star Wars film (or any film altogether) is coming close to TFA's numbers for a long time, the middle chapter in the trilogy was definitely the one that wouldn't do that. The only real impact this negative reception might have on Episode IX's box office numbers, which definitely could be lower as many of the Last Jedi haters will be giving up on the franchise now (I certainly am) - and even then, it's still pretty much guaranteed to do at least $1b in the absolute worst-case scenario, so... please, just stop. These movies are not commercial failures, regardless of whether you want them to be or not.

Who said anything about failure? That is a strawman that many who like the movie are clinging onto. There's a difference between a flop and a big disappointment.  Take GOTG Volume 2 for instance. If it had been down from the original by ~20%, down by ~$155M, would it have been a flop? No. But, it would have been a big disappointment, and would have made Disney/Marvel take note that there was something they needed to do to make sure that didn't  happen, again.  

The point is no one expected it to be this low. Definitely not Disney. TFA showed just how big SW is in this new market. Hell, even a spinoff could make over $1B. Sure, I'm positive Disney expected some decline in BO revenue, as TLJ wouldn't meet the levels of hype that TFA did. Though, it nearly did opening weekend, being down only $79M WW, down 15%.

After that weekend, I bet they were thinking $1.7B, maybe even $1.75-$1.8B, was in the bag. But, it continued to drop, faster than TFA, and now it's down $461.2M, or 31%. If the 31% down holds true, it won't hit $1.5B, ending ~$1.43B. Personally, I think the drop could hit 35%-38%, ending at $1.28B-$1.34B.  Definitely not a flop, but a big disappointment. 

You mention TLJ's excellent opening week, which in fact came close to TFA. What I don't get is why that's a reason to change your overall expectations (which, judging by your post at least, it seems you did), and I doubt Disney will be dissapointed by the movie not matching revised projections after a smashing opening week, if that's what you are suggesting they did...



Teeqoz said:
thismeintiel said:

Who said anything about failure? That is a strawman that many who like the movie are clinging onto. There's a difference between a flop and a big disappointment.  Take GOTG Volume 2 for instance. If it had been down from the original by ~20%, down by ~$155M, would it have been a flop? No. But, it would have been a big disappointment, and would have made Disney/Marvel take note that there was something they needed to do to make sure that didn't  happen, again.  

The point is no one expected it to be this low. Definitely not Disney. TFA showed just how big SW is in this new market. Hell, even a spinoff could make over $1B. Sure, I'm positive Disney expected some decline in BO revenue, as TLJ wouldn't meet the levels of hype that TFA did. Though, it nearly did opening weekend, being down only $79M WW, down 15%.

After that weekend, I bet they were thinking $1.7B, maybe even $1.75-$1.8B, was in the bag. But, it continued to drop, faster than TFA, and now it's down $461.2M, or 31%. If the 31% down holds true, it won't hit $1.5B, ending ~$1.43B. Personally, I think the drop could hit 35%-38%, ending at $1.28B-$1.34B.  Definitely not a flop, but a big disappointment. 

You mention TLJ's excellent opening week, which in fact came close to TFA. What I don't get is why that's a reason to change your overall expectations (which, judging by your post at least, it seems you did), and I doubt Disney will be dissapointed by the movie not matching revised projections after a smashing opening week, if that's what you are suggesting they did...

I don't think they adjusted their expectations at all. I think the opening weekend just reinforced what they already thought would happen. It wasn't going to be as big as TFA, but it also wasn't going to fall this dismally low from it.

A 10% fall, like the one Avengers:AOU saw, was probably the most optimistic of their projections. A more realistic one would be to be 15%-18% down, something that they actually achieved, and on the better end of that range,  opening weekend, which was going to be the hardest to match given the amount of hype TFA had opening day. A more pessimistic prediction was probably 20%-25% down. They're hitting neither. 



It would be easier for all of you to realize that every SW movie is mediocre at best, including the latest one. It's fine to enjoy them, but labeling any of them a "masterpiece" means you are biased.

If you consider the old SW movies masterpieces, it's because of nostalgia. If you consider the latest one a masterpiece, it's because you're easy to please, you also must be one of those who think the last season of Game of Thrones was any good or that marvel superhero movies are anything more than popcorn flicks.

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 31 December 2017

LurkerJ said:

It would be easier for all of you to realize that every SW movie is mediocre at best, including the latest one. It's fine to enjoy them, but labeling any of them a "masterpiece" means you are biased.

If you consider the old SW movies masterpieces, it's because of nostalgia. If you consider the latest one a masterpiece, it's because you're easy to please, you also must be one of those who think the last season of Game of Thrones was any good or that marvel superhero movies are anything more than popcorn flicks.

Problem is critics claim is a master piece. Most likely cuz they are afraid of being negative of a movie pushing diverse leads in this current pc climate. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
LurkerJ said:

It would be easier for all of you to realize that every SW movie is mediocre at best, including the latest one. It's fine to enjoy them, but labeling any of them a "masterpiece" means you are biased.

If you consider the old SW movies masterpieces, it's because of nostalgia. If you consider the latest one a masterpiece, it's because you're easy to please, you also must be one of those who think the last season of Game of Thrones was any good or that marvel superhero movies are anything more than popcorn flicks.

Problem is critics claim is a master piece. Most likely cuz they are afraid of being negative of a movie pushing diverse leads in this current pc climate. 

Imo, it's far from a masterpiece as the critics claim, but it's also far from being a bad Star Wars movie as some fans claim. I honestly would give it a 4 out of 5 because I enjoyed it a lot despite the flaws in it.