I saw the infamous Leia scene.
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Guys, just wanted to point out that this thing you keep calling a plot hole isn't a plot hole. That word doesn't mean what you think it means. Rather, the issue of why the FO didn't take more aggressive action earlier is a "head scratcher."

A plot hole is when something happens in the story that literally makes no physical sense with no explanation. As in, if the story played out in real life and not fiction, then the story literally could not continue from that point. The writer/director divided by zero. A head scratcher is when something should have happened, or a character or characters should have taken more logical action, but didn't.

I'm not defending the film's plot; just merely pointing out the difference between an actual hole and questionable story progression.

Now you know how I feel about Metroid fans.

Goddam, I love this post.

A plot hole, defined by Oxford Dictionary, is simply: An inconsistency in the narrative or character development of a book, film, television programme, etc.

If you want to get less board, the definition is: A gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot.

The movie already established that they have a tracking device that shows them the exact spot the rebel ship is at. We have established that the rebels can't jump because they have fuel only for one more jump, and the Order will just follow them, which they already did once. For them not to use any logic beyond this point to end the rebels, when they have 18 hrs to do so is a plot hole.

Maybe if it had been a lone pilot in a small ship, who decided not to contact the Order because he thought he could handle it on his own. But, this situation has the Supreme Leader's attention, and therefore the entire force of the Order behind it. If this is their logic in an easily handled situation, then it makes it even more implausible that they are the ones who have taken control of the galaxy. 

Regardless of the other points, what does her gender have to do with anything? Why is there such an issue with having a female hero in a movie like Star Wars? It kind of reminds me of people being upset about having a female Doctor Who :).

1. Rey has not lived a protected life and had to struggle all through her upbringing. This gives her another set of abilities than Luke, for better and for worse. In what way does the movie claim she is better because she is a female?

6. Rey is likely very capable at that type of fighting, she has her staff and knows how do be effective in combat. How does the movie portray him as bad because he is a male? Is captain Phasmas only disadvantage that she is a woman aswell?

In reading through much discussion about TLJ from both sides of the fence, I'm noticing a couple of key points that keep coming up -

1. There are roughly 9 people who hated or disliked TLJ per about 1 or 2 who claims to like/love it.

2. I've yet to hear any real, legitimate, and/or thought provoking arguments as to what makes this film good. Defenders claim it's "different than Empire and full of twists/deep characters." Wat..? And while I AT LEAST credit Rian Johnson for not completely rehashing Empire ala TFA with ANH.. first of all, different doesn't automatically mean better. The plot has to make coherent sense and explain its logic, which it rarely does within the confines of its own parameters, let alone those set in the OT or even TFA. Second, twists usually need to amount to more than merely killing off x major character for shock value or having the twist being "eh, this seemingly major/impactful thing is actually nothing." And third - emo angst, Mary Sue's, awkward Marvel-esque humor, and random characters serving no purpose and/or backstory doesn't equate to complex or interesting characters in my book. I dunno, maybe it's me..? And additionally, Johnson throws the "ingenuity" out the window by closing the film with a scene that looks EXACTLY like the opening scene of Empire anyway. I suppose this is to remind the viewer that yes, they are in fact watching STAR WARS, despite 90% of the movie being an almost ANTITHESIS of Star Wars in many ways, and showing a clear distain for the old lore (even much of TFA lore!) and their fans.. But no, I guess the ground in this world is made of salt or something so, it's different -_-

3. I HAVE heard coherent, well thought out, and intelligent points as to why TLJ falls completely flat. At first I tried to take this with a grain of salt, as some of this stuff could maybe be seen as nitpicking, and you can certainly find a myriad of flaws in the prequels, and even the OT. But at the end of the day those people who enjoy the movie from what I've read/heard have given little to no real arguments as to why these people who hate the movie are wrong, aside from discrediting and downright personal attacks like "quit being stuck in the past, you old foggie" (but like.. you're watching/defending a STAR WARS sequel.. Aren't YOU also stuck in the past? Do you REALLY think you'd have half the interest or would be passionately defending this movie if it was called "Space Strife: The Last Warriors?" If you're so keen on breaking from the past, why not just watch an entirely new Sci Fi series?) or "it's just fanboy rage" (umm, but YOU are the one who likes this movie.. Doesn't that make YOU the fanboy?) or my favorite (ugh) "you just have X political agenda hence why you don't like this film." Give me a break - this film is so blatantly pushing its own political agenda it's actually funny, thus people who like the film are the ones with a "political agenda" if anything. 

Usually when one side of the fence is resorting to 90% discrediting the person/personal attacks while the other group consists of 90% logical arguments - the former side tends to represent the losing side of the argument..

If you like it - cool, no one's stopping you (and I don't mean to put you down for it, despite some of this maybe coming off as such), but stop discrediting those who ARE voicing their displeasure of it, and at least counter them with your own arguments as to why the movie is good, which I've seen very little of thus far. I quite like Revenge of the Sith, but at the same time, I recognize its MANY faults and I would never try and make my case for why it's so amazing and especially why people are so wrong in disliking it. Just shrug it off as a guilty pleasure and move on. Trust me kids, I was there in 2005 when EP3 came out (I was a teenager).. I get it, you want to get verification as to why you're drawn to something so flawed but sometimes there's just very little there :P

So thats it, cant fight the list of points so single out the ones that you can spin to call out sexism for?

The entire point of that post was to differentiate why luke is not a marty and she is a mary.  If she was cast as a man then we would be saying is a gary stu. nothing would have changed so gender has nothing to do with it.

This is ghost busters 2016 all over again. No argument can be made against a horrible movie cuz women are the main characters.

There seem to be 2 kinds of core Star Wars fans.

1. The people who hate TLJ. These seem like the people who love the lore and rules of the Star Wars universe. If anything is off, its the end of the world. "Han shot someone with his left hand?! Han is RIGHT HANDED YOU PIECES OF SHIT!!!"

2. The people who love TLJ. These seem like people who just love Star Wars no matter what. If Leia is suddenly a jedi master and can bring herself back from the dead, who cares? She could tap dance back to the ship while the cantina music plays and they would still enjoy it.

I'm exaggerating of course.


Both have the right to feel the way they do. The movies have never been the same after the original trilogy imo. Episode 4, 5 and 6 are the only movies that is Star Wars to me. I'm not a huge fan of Star Wars, but the prequels absolutely killed whatever potential this franchise had to me becoming a fan. Not sure if Ill ever watch any of the newer movies. It just doesn't seem like Star Wars anymore. Just business people throwing stuff at the screen and hoping it sticks.

Don't know what everyone's complaining about, I for one thought The Last Jedi Mary Sue was amazing, and I can't wait for Episode IX when Carrie Poppins makes her triumphant return and teams up with Mary Sue to rid the galaxy of the evil white male patriarchy once and for all!

Heh sry, I still have Sargon of Akkad's "review" of the movie in my head.  It's both ridiculously over the top and yet hilariously on point in many ways...