By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - If Sony makes a "Playstation Switch" could it succeed?

 

Could Sony make a successful Switch ?

Yes 25 14.37%
 
No 83 47.70%
 
Depends on many things 62 35.63%
 
see results 4 2.30%
 
Total:174
EricHiggin on 26 December 2017
HoangNhatAnh said:
KBG29 said:

The current chip is 15 Watts on 14nm. Like I said, moving to a more refined Ryzen Mobile build, and Navi or newer GPU design, plus the shrink to 7nm you are looking at a massive leap in CPU over PS4 and better than PS4 GPU power at well under 10 Watts.

Using the Switch as an example of the state of mobile tech is not really an indication of where things are. Switch is built on Tegra X1 which is already over 2 years old and built on 20nm fabrication. By holiday 2019 it would be 4 1/2 year old tech.

Killzone is not even close to Pokemon, and Sun/Moon is still a main line title. If Sony bend had made Uncharted 4, and Guerilla Cambridge had made Killzone 3 it would be a totally different story. Still the B team, but a main line entry means more than the team behind it. 

As for the rest, I never said they could build a $250 PS4/PS5 mobile that has 4 - 5 hours of gaming life by next year. I said that the chipset if shared with the PS4 Super Slim should be profitable at $200. Add in the screen, the battery, a 500GB SSD(Flash Storage), and you are looking at a $400 device. Not next year, late 2019 is a possibility though, 2020 would be no issue at all.

Like I said above, the X1 is no indication of the state of mobile tech. The Ryzen 7 2700U is a very impressive mobile chip, and it is just the start. When AMD moves to 7nm and more refined tech, they will see massive gains over even this very impressive chip. Over at Nvidia, Xavier is going to be impressive next year, it will very likely end up outperforming the PS4 on the 16nm fab. Its successor in 2019 will be much closer to PS4 Pro than base PS4.  

And the price? PS4 Pro games run on a $250 system which last 4 - 5 hours? LOL, when? Also, don't you think New Switch with new Tegra chip will come out in 2020? Also, no Sony game can drive the sales of handheld like Pokemon, even the spin off sold gangbuster compare to Sony franchises both mainline and spin off. PS3 came out in 2006, vita is only a small fraction of ps3 power in 2011 with $250 price. Switch is 3.5 times stronger than ps3 with $300 price in 2017. In 2020, there will be PS4 Pro portable cost $250?

Price could be $300 or less without much trouble at all with 4-6 hour battery life late 2019-2020. You could also see a Switch 2 by then potentially, but the Tegra SOC it will use will be a few years old just like in Switch, so Switch 2 would have similar performance, battery life, and price to the PS portable. The games, software, and marketing would be the deciding factors. The PS portable might even be slightly weaker than Switch 2 in terms of performance and battery life, but PS wouldn't really care as long as it's close enough, because they would also have PS4 SS at $199 and Pro S at $299. Having the portable at $250 would be the perfect price point right between PS4 and Pro. This would also help to extend the life span since the 100mil+ PS4 ecosystem would continue to grow steadily with a $199 console and brand new handheld/hybrid.



Around the Network
TheBraveGallade on 26 December 2017
EricHiggin said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

And the price? PS4 Pro games run on a $250 system which last 4 - 5 hours? LOL, when? Also, don't you think New Switch with new Tegra chip will come out in 2020? Also, no Sony game can drive the sales of handheld like Pokemon, even the spin off sold gangbuster compare to Sony franchises both mainline and spin off. PS3 came out in 2006, vita is only a small fraction of ps3 power in 2011 with $250 price. Switch is 3.5 times stronger than ps3 with $300 price in 2017. In 2020, there will be PS4 Pro portable cost $250?

Price could be $300 or less without much trouble at all with 4-6 hour battery life late 2019-2020. You could also see a Switch 2 by then potentially, but the Tegra SOC it will use will be a few years old just like in Switch, so Switch 2 would have similar performance, battery life, and price to the PS portable. The games, software, and marketing would be the deciding factors. The PS portable might even be slightly weaker than Switch 2 in terms of performance and battery life, but PS wouldn't really care as long as it's close enough, because they would also have PS4 SS at $199 and Pro S at $299. Having the portable at $250 would be the perfect price point right between PS4 and Pro. This would also help to extend the life span since the 100mil+ PS4 ecosystem would continue to grow steadily with a $199 console and brand new handheld/hybrid.

But would they continue to push the ps4 by then? I know sony systems sell rediculously long (the ps3had one of the best rpgs of this year cone out on it), but still,by 2020 sony will probably go on a new gen.

Now a true 4k ps5 and a 1080 ps5p running the same games can see happening. But no ps4 portable.



zippy on 26 December 2017

I don't think Sony will bother with the portable market anymore. I think home entertainment is their forte, they seem to be having great success with VR so I imagine them wanting to expand it more.



KBG29 on 26 December 2017
HoangNhatAnh said:

And the price? PS4 Pro games run on a $250 system which last 4 - 5 hours? LOL, when? Also, don't you think New Switch with new Tegra chip will come out in 2020? Also, no Sony game can drive the sales of handheld like Pokemon, even the spin off sold gangbuster compare to Sony franchises both mainline and spin off. PS3 came out in 2006, vita is only a small fraction of ps3 power in 2011 with $250 price. Switch is 3.5 times stronger than ps3 with $300 price in 2017. In 2020, there will be PS4 Pro portable cost $250?

We are definitly not on the same page.

First I see absolutely no reason for a PS4 Portable to aim for PS4 Pro levels of power. Base PS4 games at 1080p on a 5 - 6" display would look incredible already. I can see a $300 - $400 device based on the same chip as the PS4 Super Slim as I have been saying.  Most likely 3 -5 hours gameplay.

I fully expect a new Switch based on Xavier by 2019.

Sony does not have one franchise that sells on the level of Pokemon, but it does have dozens of franchises which sell very well, and nearly every 3rd party game.

You keep compairing the PS3 to the Vita. The PS3 cost $800 to manufacture in 2006, with the most advanced CPU on the market, and one of the highest end GPU's available at the time. PS Vita cost roughly $300 to manufacture at the time it was released. They were 5 years apart. The PS4 had a weak mobile CPU, and a Midrange+ GPU, and cost ~$400 to manufacture when it was released. The PS4 portable in question would be launching 6 years after PS4, using the same chipset as the PS4 Super Slim, which will be very cheap at that point.

As I said above, I do not see a PS4 Portable aiming at PS4 Pro specs. There will be mobile devices with more CPU and GPU power than PS4 and close to PS4 Pro by 2020. They will probably be around $300 to manufacture, and sell for $1,200.

EricHiggin said:

Price could be $300 or less without much trouble at all with 4-6 hour battery life late 2019-2020. You could also see a Switch 2 by then potentially, but the Tegra SOC it will use will be a few years old just like in Switch, so Switch 2 would have similar performance, battery life, and price to the PS portable. The games, software, and marketing would be the deciding factors. The PS portable might even be slightly weaker than Switch 2 in terms of performance and battery life, but PS wouldn't really care as long as it's close enough, because they would also have PS4 SS at $199 and Pro S at $299. Having the portable at $250 would be the perfect price point right between PS4 and Pro. This would also help to extend the life span since the 100mil+ PS4 ecosystem would continue to grow steadily with a $199 console and brand new handheld/hybrid.

The only thing that pushes me a little higher on price is the cost of Solid State Memory. 

I have no doubt Nintendo will release a Switch based on the Xavier chip by 2019. If they launch in March 2019 the chip will be over a year old. Xavier should be very competitive with PS4 power wise, probably better in some places and worse in others. It should aso offer a massive boost to battery life on the portable unit. The Tegra X2 is already supposed to be able to offer twice the battery life of the Tegra X1 in the current Switch.

As for the rest, it comes down to what we have talked about. Do they want to hit rest with a PS5 line of devices, or do they want to continue with PS4 a couple more years. If they stick with PS4, I think we will see a PS4 Premium that offers 4K in all titles along with the PS4 Super Slim, and the potentially a Portable. Not sure if they keep the Pro in this scenario, or just replace it with the Premium. On the other hand they could launch PS5 and PS5 Portable offering 4K at home and 1080p on the go. That would probably be easier to do, and make for a bit more powerful and effecient handheld, but then you loose the 100M strong userbase. 

However, it goes down, I am very interested in watching it unfold. I really hope they are planning to give us an option to take our PlayStation library on the go.

TheBraveGallade said:

But would they continue to push the ps4 by then? I know sony systems sell rediculously long (the ps3had one of the best rpgs of this year cone out on it), but still,by 2020 sony will probably go on a new gen.

Now a true 4k ps5 and a 1080 ps5p running the same games can see happening. But no ps4 portable.

Hard to say what they will do. There is definitly a strong case for both options. Stick with the PS4 and you have 100M users, and the Portable just kind of slides in their. Then you are starting to get really weak on the CPU side though. Jump to PS5, and building a Portable and Home duo is super easy, but then you are hitting reset, and as we have seen, you never know how that is going to turn out in this market. 

If you could be absolutely sure there would be no backlash, I think PS4 should go tell 2022, and PS5 should have ~25TFLOPs of GPU power, 128GB of RAM, and a large M.2 NVMe SSD. That would deliver a true next gen home and VR expereince, and push a portable counterpart out of the relm of possibility. However, it seems quite likely that next gen is just going to be a slight nudge regaurdless of this portable thing. I can see a super weak ~12TFLOP, 16 - 24GB RAM, and HDD based device posing as PS5 in 2019 or 2020. If that is the case though, I absolutely hope they intend to do a portable version, because there would be no issue scaling games built for something like that down to a portable unit.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

HoangNhatAnh on 26 December 2017
EricHiggin said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

And the price? PS4 Pro games run on a $250 system which last 4 - 5 hours? LOL, when? Also, don't you think New Switch with new Tegra chip will come out in 2020? Also, no Sony game can drive the sales of handheld like Pokemon, even the spin off sold gangbuster compare to Sony franchises both mainline and spin off. PS3 came out in 2006, vita is only a small fraction of ps3 power in 2011 with $250 price. Switch is 3.5 times stronger than ps3 with $300 price in 2017. In 2020, there will be PS4 Pro portable cost $250?

Price could be $300 or less without much trouble at all with 4-6 hour battery life late 2019-2020. You could also see a Switch 2 by then potentially, but the Tegra SOC it will use will be a few years old just like in Switch, so Switch 2 would have similar performance, battery life, and price to the PS portable. The games, software, and marketing would be the deciding factors. The PS portable might even be slightly weaker than Switch 2 in terms of performance and battery life, but PS wouldn't really care as long as it's close enough, because they would also have PS4 SS at $199 and Pro S at $299. Having the portable at $250 would be the perfect price point right between PS4 and Pro. This would also help to extend the life span since the 100mil+ PS4 ecosystem would continue to grow steadily with a $199 console and brand new handheld/hybrid.

Proof it will happen? And Microsoft will release next Xbox with 4k/30fps at that time 



Around the Network
Conina on 26 December 2017
TheBraveGallade said:
KBG29 said:

AMD can deliver a chip right now that offers a CPU multiple times more powerful than the PS4's with better than XBO level GPU power at 15 Watts. Shrink that down to 7nm in 2019, and add an even more effecient Ryzen design and Navi based GPU, and they will have a chip with an even greater performance gap on the CPU side, and well above PS4 level GPU with less than 10W power consumption. 

15 watts? Try harder. The switch draws 11 watts docked running full tilt. Probably a lot less portable. And it still only lasts 3 hours.

Edit: in fact, the switch draws 7 watts undocked at minimum brightness.

Even less than 7 Watts. The Switch has a 16 Wh battery (4310 mAh at 3.7 Volts) and the lowest battery time I have seen in demanding games (Zelda BotW) at full brightness and everything on is 2:37 hours. 16 Wh / 2:37 h = 6.1 Watt for the full system, including the display.

With low brightness it can play Zelda BotW for over 3 hours. 16 Wh / 3:05 h = 5.2 Watt for the full system, including the dimmed display. So the SoC for itself won't need more than 5 Watts.

So a SoC that needs 10 Watts undocked would need the double battery capacity for acceptable 2:30 to 3 hours battery life in demanding games. That is possible in a handheld formfactor (see GPD Win 2 with a 37 Wh battery), but it would make the handheld/hybrid even heavier and clunkier than a Switch. I don't know if Sony wants to go that way, they always tried to make their mobile devices as light and comfortable as possible.

Last edited by Conina - on 26 December 2017

HoangNhatAnh on 26 December 2017
KBG29 said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

And the price? PS4 Pro games run on a $250 system which last 4 - 5 hours? LOL, when? Also, don't you think New Switch with new Tegra chip will come out in 2020? Also, no Sony game can drive the sales of handheld like Pokemon, even the spin off sold gangbuster compare to Sony franchises both mainline and spin off. PS3 came out in 2006, vita is only a small fraction of ps3 power in 2011 with $250 price. Switch is 3.5 times stronger than ps3 with $300 price in 2017. In 2020, there will be PS4 Pro portable cost $250?

We are definitly not on the same page.

First I see absolutely no reason for a PS4 Portable to aim for PS4 Pro levels of power. Base PS4 games at 1080p on a 5 - 6" display would look incredible already. I can see a $300 - $400 device based on the same chip as the PS4 Super Slim as I have been saying.  Most likely 3 -5 hours gameplay.

I fully expect a new Switch based on Xavier by 2019.

Sony does not have one franchise that sells on the level of Pokemon, but it does have dozens of franchises which sell very well, and nearly every 3rd party game.

You keep compairing the PS3 to the Vita. The PS3 cost $800 to manufacture in 2006, with the most advanced CPU on the market, and one of the highest end GPU's available at the time. PS Vita cost roughly $300 to manufacture at the time it was released. They were 5 years apart. The PS4 had a weak mobile CPU, and a Midrange+ GPU, and cost ~$400 to manufacture when it was released. The PS4 portable in question would be launching 6 years after PS4, using the same chipset as the PS4 Super Slim, which will be very cheap at that point.

As I said above, I do not see a PS4 Portable aiming at PS4 Pro specs. There will be mobile devices with more CPU and GPU power than PS4 and close to PS4 Pro by 2020. They will probably be around $300 to manufacture, and sell for $1,200.

EricHiggin said:

Price could be $300 or less without much trouble at all with 4-6 hour battery life late 2019-2020. You could also see a Switch 2 by then potentially, but the Tegra SOC it will use will be a few years old just like in Switch, so Switch 2 would have similar performance, battery life, and price to the PS portable. The games, software, and marketing would be the deciding factors. The PS portable might even be slightly weaker than Switch 2 in terms of performance and battery life, but PS wouldn't really care as long as it's close enough, because they would also have PS4 SS at $199 and Pro S at $299. Having the portable at $250 would be the perfect price point right between PS4 and Pro. This would also help to extend the life span since the 100mil+ PS4 ecosystem would continue to grow steadily with a $199 console and brand new handheld/hybrid.

The only thing that pushes me a little higher on price is the cost of Solid State Memory. 

I have no doubt Nintendo will release a Switch based on the Xavier chip by 2019. If they launch in March 2019 the chip will be over a year old. Xavier should be very competitive with PS4 power wise, probably better in some places and worse in others. It should aso offer a massive boost to battery life on the portable unit. The Tegra X2 is already supposed to be able to offer twice the battery life of the Tegra X1 in the current Switch.

As for the rest, it comes down to what we have talked about. Do they want to hit rest with a PS5 line of devices, or do they want to continue with PS4 a couple more years. If they stick with PS4, I think we will see a PS4 Premium that offers 4K in all titles along with the PS4 Super Slim, and the potentially a Portable. Not sure if they keep the Pro in this scenario, or just replace it with the Premium. On the other hand they could launch PS5 and PS5 Portable offering 4K at home and 1080p on the go. That would probably be easier to do, and make for a bit more powerful and effecient handheld, but then you loose the 100M strong userbase. 

However, it goes down, I am very interested in watching it unfold. I really hope they are planning to give us an option to take our PlayStation library on the go.

TheBraveGallade said:

But would they continue to push the ps4 by then? I know sony systems sell rediculously long (the ps3had one of the best rpgs of this year cone out on it), but still,by 2020 sony will probably go on a new gen.

Now a true 4k ps5 and a 1080 ps5p running the same games can see happening. But no ps4 portable.

Hard to say what they will do. There is definitly a strong case for both options. Stick with the PS4 and you have 100M users, and the Portable just kind of slides in their. Then you are starting to get really weak on the CPU side though. Jump to PS5, and building a Portable and Home duo is super easy, but then you are hitting reset, and as we have seen, you never know how that is going to turn out in this market. 

If you could be absolutely sure there would be no backlash, I think PS4 should go tell 2022, and PS5 should have ~25TFLOPs of GPU power, 128GB of RAM, and a large M.2 NVMe SSD. That would deliver a true next gen home and VR expereince, and push a portable counterpart out of the relm of possibility. However, it seems quite likely that next gen is just going to be a slight nudge regaurdless of this portable thing. I can see a super weak ~12TFLOP, 16 - 24GB RAM, and HDD based device posing as PS5 in 2019 or 2020. If that is the case though, I absolutely hope they intend to do a portable version, because there would be no issue scaling games built for something like that down to a portable unit.

Any proof or just your assume? And 2020 maybe Tegra X3 will come out for New Switch. Then, PS5 will cost $400 while ps4/5 portable only cost $250 with 4 - 5 hours in 2020? Are you fortuneteller of Sony or something?



captain carot on 26 December 2017
KBG29 said:

You keep compairing the PS3 to the Vita. The PS3 cost $800 to manufacture in 2006, with the most advanced CPU on the market, and one of the highest end GPU's available at the time. PS Vita cost roughly $300 to manufacture at the time it was released. They were 5 years apart. The PS4 had a weak mobile CPU, and a Midrange+ GPU, and cost ~$400 to manufacture when it was released. The PS4 portable in question would be launching 6 years after PS4, using the same chipset as the PS4 Super Slim, which will be very cheap at that point.

 

PS Vita was way weaker than PS3 with the GPU not even having a quaerter of the PS3's power. Right now there's again a major power gap GPU wise, a possible need for Radeon (no suiting ultra low power version for a handheld device at all) and no powerful enough x86 CPU for a powerful gaming device. Long story short, there will be no  x86 PlayStation handheld that is compatible to a PS4. Better not even start talking about game size, internal memory, game cards and stuff like that.

 

Nintendo's system works because they developed in that direction from the start. And they do have games for a device like that. Being really energy efficient from the start and not giving raw power much importance was a key element for Switch.

 

And no, a PS5 in 2020 will neither have 128GB RAM nor a 25TFLOP/s GPU. The latter one not even being on the horizon for single GPU high end systems right now and the former one being quite useless and far to expensive.



KBG29 on 26 December 2017
HoangNhatAnh said:

Any proof or just your assume? And 2020 maybe Tegra X3 will come out for New Switch. Then, PS5 will cost $400 while ps4/5 portable only cost $250 with 4 - 5 hours in 2020? Are you fortuneteller of Sony or something?

I have no proof that Sony has anything in the works beyond saying that they can not ignore the Switch. As far as hardware goes, I am just looking at what is available, what is already announced, and what has happened in the past. Based on those factors, it is quite obvious that AMD will have a chip that can handle PS4 games in a portable form factor by late 2019 or early 2020. 

Xavier i the Tegra X3, and it is very likely that it will land in a Switch evision eventually. It could happen next year, as the chip will be available in the next few months. Nintendo could pull the trigger on it at any time.

No fortune tell here. Just someone with a very deep passion for gaming hardware, and a lot invested into Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. I just love looking at what tech is up and coming, and how it could be used to grow the reach of gaming platforms. Sony happens to be my favorite, so I love to look forward and see how they could use upcomming technology advancements to expand their platform. 

captain carot said:

PS Vita was way weaker than PS3 with the GPU not even having a quaerter of the PS3's power. Right now there's again a major power gap GPU wise, a possible need for Radeon (no suiting ultra low power version for a handheld device at all) and no powerful enough x86 CPU for a powerful gaming device. Long story short, there will be no  x86 PlayStation handheld that is compatible to a PS4. Better not even start talking about game size, internal memory, game cards and stuff like that.

 

Nintendo's system works because they developed in that direction from the start. And they do have games for a device like that. Being really energy efficient from the start and not giving raw power much importance was a key element for Switch.

 

And no, a PS5 in 2020 will neither have 128GB RAM nor a 25TFLOP/s GPU. The latter one not even being on the horizon for single GPU high end systems right now and the former one being quite useless and far to expensive.

Not sure why there is this beleif that PS4 is this powerhouse that is years beyond mobile tech. The information is out their for Ryzen 7 2700U and Xavier. CPU wise, these chips are twice the power of PS4, and they are somewhere between XBO and PS4 in GPU power, Xavier may end up closer to PS4. With the next die shrink, there will be absolutely no problem surpassing PS4 with mobile chips.

As for PS5. I know we won't get a ~25TFLOPs GPU and 128GB of RAM in 2020. That is why I would rather wait for 2022 - 2024. PS5 is 2019 or 2020 would likely be a ~12TFlops GPU with 16 - 24GB of RAM. Would be the smallest leap in the history of generations, but it is a very realistic possability. If PS5 is worth its name, 128GB of RAM would not be useless. If history has taught us anything it is that there is never enough cache, ram, or storage. 



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

dyremose on 26 December 2017

I dont think they will try and make one. It is gonna be hard for sony to have enough software for two platforms.

Also regarding the switch. In my eyes it is not considered a success and I find it strange how people can see It so.. Nintendo is losing market share compared to last gen.

Since switch is both their handheld and home console now it has to sell as fast as wii u and 3ds combined. Something it certainly does not at this point. Noone seems to even notice this and it boggles my mind as it is being hailed as a huge success. In reality however, revenue is propably gonna go down by like what half? From last gen.