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Forums - Movies & TV - Top 5 Things I Disliked About SW:TLJ

Angelus on 18 December 2017
Nymeria said:
Angelus said:
I have question nobody here seems to have talked about yet.....

How do you guys feel about pretty much all rebel/resistance members being essentially suicide bombers? I mean seriously. Disney might wanna be careful imo making every single good guy a martyr, or wanna-be martyr. Putting aside the message it might send to some, it's also just really getting old, and it makes all the good guys look incompetent, when that's all you can ever come up with.

That didn't bother me because it felt like hammering how desperate the situation is.  They keep losing, they are down to few hundred people and taking casualties over and over.  What bothered me more was Rose being a fool and "saving" Finn from doing it, delivering that cringey line of "save the ones we love". All she did was condemn them both and all their friends.  Think about him dragging her that kilometer across the salt flat in front of multiple AT-ATs.  Idealism dies in desperation.

I agree it is awful situation and all, but that is their predicament.  It really made Poe come across as a sociopath to be casual when they lose so many people.  I would have liked to see it change him from being wise cracking to seeing the gravity of decisions and the challenge in front of them emerging as the leader of the rebellion.

I mean I get they're supposed to be the underdogs and all, but putting aside for a second that they never bother to explain why in this trilogy that should be the case to begin with - considering that the Empire had been defeated - at some point you gotta write some protagonists that are clever enough that they have a plan that doesn't involve constant suicide. It's no wonder nobody answers their call for help at the end of the movie. Who wants to join that shit show? Like the leaders of the resistance seem to put a lot of planning into what outfits they're wearing to look real fancy, but then it comes down to strategy and everyone is like.....uhm......so....yolo?

Meanwhile, the bad guys are always building up huge fleets, Death Stars, converting planets into giant BS laser, etc.....

Oh you blew up one of our awesome toys? Big whoop, we got like 10 spares bitches. What you been doing with your time and resources? lol

Last edited by Angelus - on 18 December 2017

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Farsala on 18 December 2017
Angelus said:
Nymeria said:

That didn't bother me because it felt like hammering how desperate the situation is.  They keep losing, they are down to few hundred people and taking casualties over and over.  What bothered me more was Rose being a fool and "saving" Finn from doing it, delivering that cringey line of "save the ones we love". All she did was condemn them both and all their friends.  Think about him dragging her that kilometer across the salt flat in front of multiple AT-ATs.  Idealism dies in desperation.

I agree it is awful situation and all, but that is their predicament.  It really made Poe come across as a sociopath to be casual when they lose so many people.  I would have liked to see it change him from being wise cracking to seeing the gravity of decisions and the challenge in front of them emerging as the leader of the rebellion.

I mean I get they're supposed to be the underdogs and all, but putting aside for a second that they never bother to explain why in this trilogy that should be the case to begin with - considering that the Empire had been defeated - at some point you gotta write some protagonists that are clever enough that they have a plan that doesn't involve constant suicide. It's no wonder nobody answers their call for help at the end of the movie. Who wants to join that shit show? Like the leaders of the resistance seem to put a lot of planning into what outfits they're wearing to look real fancy, but then it comes down to strategy and everyone is like.....uhm......so....yolo?

Meanwhile, the bad guys are always building up huge fleets, Death Stars, converting planets into giant BS laser, etc.....

Oh you blew up one of our awesome toys? Big whoop, we got like 10 spares bitches. What you been doing with your time and resources? lol

They make the empire seem so strong but then Rey beats them without a sweat because Mary Sue. An actual strong and interesting villain makes for a strong good guy. Vader beat strong  good guys all the time and when Luke won it was glorious. Meanwhile Kylo lost to an untrained 2 times in a row and we are stuck with him for the 3rd time.



thismeintiel on 18 December 2017
StarOcean said:
thismeintiel said:

You put fans in quotes for the people who love the original, but find too many flaws in the new ones to love them. Quite ironic, since if you are a person who excepts something in whatever format it takes, even if it shits on the OG, that is not a fan. That's what people call a fanboy of a franchise. Take Angry Joe, for example. He's a pretty good judge on games and movies, but don't ever take his opinion on something Superman. Because he is a fanboy of him, he will excuse things in his movies, including hurt people's character, that he wouldn't in other films. 

And we don't hate CG. We hate unnecessary and/or BAD CG. Where it's obvious it could have easily been done practically and look 100x better onscreen, and especially in Star Wars/big budget films, looks like it came out of any generic Disney film.

Also, you might want to have a gander at the user ratings on RT and Metacritic. It's not just a small group who were disappointed by the film. Personally, I'm expecting a decent drop next weekend. 

Yes, you do people do hate CG. You hate all of it and would prefer all of Star Wars be done with muppets and people holding the spaceship models on screen with hands visible. 

People disappointed in the film are the only ones that'll use RT or Metacritic. People don't hate them just like people don't hate the Prequels. The vast majority of people are very much fine with them

Oh yes, because that's how shitty the effects looked in the original one.  You know when you have to argue in hyperbole, you  are admitting defeat.

Nymeria said:
thismeintiel said: 

2. Girl Power, again.  It is more evident than before Rey is just a Mary Sue.  Some people tried to explain away her being so in tuned with the Force, without a single bit of training, because it would be revealed later that her father or mother, or both, were great Jedis.  Welp, surprise, she's a big nobody.  Sold into slavery for some cash.  Now, don't get me wrong, anyone can be a Jedi if they practice enough.  But, the fact is, some are more keyed into the Force than others.  It has already been established that the Skywalker line is very Force sensitive, but training is still needed.  So, what's with Rey?  In the FA, she takes on a Jedi, Kylo, that has been trained for probably 15+ years in the force, and on both sides of it.  She can resist him reading her mind.  She could control troops with her mind.  She took on Kylo in a one on one battle.  And was able to beat him by willing a light saber to her, even though he was bringing it to him, as well.  Again, not a single second of training.

Now, for the LJ.  And keep in mind that she gets ONE lesson from Luke, period.  She can stare in the Dark Side, instantly, without being tempted by it at all.  She takes on Snoke's elite guards, with not a single bit of light saber training.  And no, her flailing it around all by herself for a minute does not count.  Is once again shown to be Kylo's equal by having the same pull on a light saber, only this time it rips in half.  In what was probably the most ridiculous display, she lifts a ton of boulders out of the way with barely any concentration or stress.  Now, just remember how tough it was for Luke to do 3 smaller ones.  Or how hard Yoda had to concentrate to lift the X-Wing out of the swamp on Degobah.  I guess they both didn't have the right part between their legs.  It's really such a shame, because Daisy Ridley is a great actress and I just know she, and her character, deserve so much more than to just be lowered to the status of a Mary Sue.

 

I wanted to respond to this point as a female and someone who tends to like "girl power" when handled well.  I was a Rey apologist for two years. I had a bit of bias of liking her personality scavenging and thought the actress was good. I excused the abilities as teasing at something and a reveal as to why she could do things others cannot.

I was hoping to see her struggle, to have a glimpse at her capacity and then work to control it.  She spends maybe a week on the island, half of which she is denied training, gets one lesson, and suddenly she can just do anything.  This is insulting and cheap to actual character development and story progression.  When I should have been cheering Rey, I felt exactly like some did two years ago of her being a audience insert power fantasy.

How would I have done it? Nothing special maybe, but I'd show her train, fail, learn, improve. For example, she'd want to swing the light sabre around and Luke would say "Start simple, just moving rocks". Rey would struggle, move a rock, get excited, then be given a larger rock she cannot move failing.  Then at the end when she has to move rocks she struggles, but for her friends connects to the force and pulls off the feat.  Emotional catharsis with clear set up and pay off. Instead, she just does it with no strain or tension.

A character I should adore I now care nothing for. If she dies in IX, I'll shrug, if she succeeds, I'll shrug. 

Yea, she didn't start out as a bad character.  A little too close to Luke, but still not bad.  But, when they started having her use the Force effectively against someone who had been training in it for at least a decade, I called bullshit.  I mean they didn't even set up her being in tune with it at the beginning of the film, just 0 to near-Jedi at the halfway point.

Now, I wouldn't have excused it completely if the answer was that she was connected through lineage, but at least it would have been SOMETHING.  So much of this movie leads to nothing.  And it would have definitely helped forgiving it by having scenes with her training with Luke.  And yes, that scene near the end with the hill of boulders should have taken everything in her, while she hears the screams of her friends pleading for help.  And she should have either passed out or nearly done so.  Instead she just casually walks up to them, while the boulders are still midair, like all she did was swat a fly away.

Also, concerning your other post.  The Aldo/Po thing was pretty dumb.  There was no reason not to tell him.  Still, her sacrifice was stupid for one big reason.  Those ships have autopilot.  There was no reason for her to stay behind.  Even when they say she needs to stay back to pilot the ship, and we go back to the bridge, she's just standing there doing nothing.  She's not controlling anything, at all.  The only time she does anything is when she turns the ship around and lightspeeds into Snoke's ship.  But, that wasn't even part of the original plan.

Veknoid_Outcast said:
#5 - I agree. Practical effects are king. They just are. Look at a movie like Fury Road and then look at The Last Jedi. It's night and day. TFA looks better than TLJ, because of its practical effects. Heck, the original trilogy looks better, because of the care and attention that went into models, matte paintings, puppets, etc.

#4 - Disagree. While this isn't the Luke we all imagined, I think the script does this interpretation justice. I mean, Luke tells Rey what happened. In his hubris and because of his belief in his own legend, he took on more than he was capable of. Luke represents the Jedi Order, which he now sees as dogmatic and prideful, so he removed that representation from the universe. He hid himself away because the Force belongs to no group or no man. Remember that the original ending of Return of the Jedi has Luke walking off into the sunset. He didn't stick around to rebuild. Honestly, even though it doesn't gel with my own ideas of his character, the conceptualization and character development of Luke in TLJ was handled splendidly.

#3 - Disagree. Sure there are some plot conveniences and MacGuffins but these don't detract much from the experience. As Hitchcock said, "effect" is more important than "logic" in movies.

#2 - I really don't think of this as "girl power." If you want to call it bad writing fine. I mean, this criticism is applicable, regardless of gender. Framing it as such says more about you than about the movie.

#1 - There's a lot going on in this paragraph, and I agree with some and disagree with others. I agree that we needed more time training on the island -- it was the best part of the movie, with the most characterization. This is a structural/narrative problem, though. I also agree that the "gray side" set-up had no payoff. Rey joining Ben in a faction-less "gray" twosome was the smart call here. But they're too afraid to pull the trigger. Part of me thinks Disney intervened here.

#5 - And it's not that I hate CG.  I hate bad CG.  Which quite a few of those creatures didn't look much better than ones from the prequels.  And even though Snoke was much improved from TFA, CG always looks even more off when you know it could be easily done with makeup.  CG really needs to be reserved for things that are almost impossible with practical effects.

#4 - The problem with that is that even if you buy Luke attempting to kill his apprentice, which I can in a moment of weakness, you would also have to believe that he would completely change his character after that happened.  The real Luke wouldn't have just run away and leave his friends and family to deal with his screw up.  Still, even if we do go with this interpretation, it still contradicts itself.  If he just wanted to be left alone to die as the last real Jedi, why make a map to his location?  And if the map was for a last ditch effort for when they needed him, which some speculated, why continue to say screw you when someone actually finds you?

#3 - Conveniences/MacGuffins and gaping plot holes are two completely different things.  The former tests the limits of your suspension of disbelief if its too jarring.  The latter, however, just dashes it to pieces and takes you out of the movie.

#2 - It has nothing to do with me.  It's what the writers have set up from the beginning.  Kylo needed a decade or more of training to get to where he is, now.  Rey, not one single minute of it to thwart him.  And in TLJ, she has 5 mins of training and is all of a sudden a Jedi master.  Even Leia becomes Super Leia and can survive the vacuum of space, even though the movies make it seem like she has been too busy running the rebellion to train like Luke has.  And the only real thing she has been able to do before was sense disturbances in the Force, and had a connection to her brother.

#1 - I'm guessing it was Disney who intervened to some extent.  At least I'm sure they made sure that they had some cute animals to push toy sales with.  Not sure if they really intervened in the story, though, except possibly the Casino part.  That reeked of generic live action Disney.

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 19 December 2017

 

Lawlight on 18 December 2017
ratchet426 said:
Just some counter-arguments from someone who actually thought TLJ was pretty good. Not "fantastic", but certainly not "the worst movie EVAH! They RUINED the franchise for me!"

1. "ruining" Luke: He banished himself on that island because he felt that any interaction with force-sensitives would go horribly wrong again, like it did with Kylo. He can't forgive himself for not saving his own nephew from sliding down the dark path. Yes, he's old(er) and bitter now, and wants nothing to do with his former conceit as The Great Jedi Master Luke. He even says that his ego caused his failure with Ben/Kylo, so he has shed that part of his past forever. It's called "character development" folks. Just because Luke Skywalker hasn't remained the exact same person he was at the end of Return of the Jedi doesn't make TLJ a bad movie for "ruining" him.

2. Rey is just a "nobody" afterall: ...And? Why does every hero character have to has some kind of divine lineage to previous trilogy characters to be considered valid? So maybe Rey isn't a Skywalker or a Solo or a Kenobi or a Palpatine or whatever. Who cares? And besides, you're basing the conclusion that her parents were nobodies because Kylo Ren _said so_? Who's to say he wasn't bullshitting her to get her to join him?

3. Snoke was useless and killed off for no reason: Says who? Because his body was sliced in half by a lightsaber? If Luke was able to astral project a solid image of himself from thousands of light years away who's to say Snoke wasn't doing the same thing? What better way to manipulate Kylo/Rey without their knowledge then to make them believe he's dead?

4. The various CGI animals: Is this really a gripe? The Porgs were annoying comedic relief but were in the movie for what? 30 seconds of screen time total? Same thing with the ice foxes. Granted the big horse-dog things were given a good 10minutes during a pretty lame subplot, but overall why is seeing new life forms a deal breaker? Wasn't the Mos Eisley canteena just an excuse to show a bunch of weird aliens? And isn't that scene revered as a classic?

Anyway, just my take.

Why did Luke leave the map behind?



thismeintiel on 18 December 2017
gtotheunit91 said:
Also the Finn/Rose story line was absolutely pointless!!!! It could have been removed and saved 30 minutes off the movie. She was such a one dimensional, generic character that only pissed me off more with the super awkward kiss. Just the whole casino planet and Benecio Del Toro's hacker character, everything led to NOTHING in that story arc!

Yea, Rose was pretty annoying.  She comes out of nowhere and teh script/director is like, "Guess what, bitches, this is a new main character."  But, we're supposed to think she's great cause they try so hard to be funny with her.  And her and Finn should have been killed when she slammed into him with those shitty crafts.  Really, they should have just let Finn go out in a blaze of glory saving everyone.  Not like they are doing anything interesting with his character anymore.

ratchet426 said:
Just some counter-arguments from someone who actually thought TLJ was pretty good. Not "fantastic", but certainly not "the worst movie EVAH! They RUINED the franchise for me!"

1. "ruining" Luke: He banished himself on that island because he felt that any interaction with force-sensitives would go horribly wrong again, like it did with Kylo. He can't forgive himself for not saving his own nephew from sliding down the dark path. Yes, he's old(er) and bitter now, and wants nothing to do with his former conceit as The Great Jedi Master Luke. He even says that his ego caused his failure with Ben/Kylo, so he has shed that part of his past forever. It's called "character development" folks. Just because Luke Skywalker hasn't remained the exact same person he was at the end of Return of the Jedi doesn't make TLJ a bad movie for "ruining" him.

2. Rey is just a "nobody" afterall: ...And? Why does every hero character have to has some kind of divine lineage to previous trilogy characters to be considered valid? So maybe Rey isn't a Skywalker or a Solo or a Kenobi or a Palpatine or whatever. Who cares? And besides, you're basing the conclusion that her parents were nobodies because Kylo Ren _said so_? Who's to say he wasn't bullshitting her to get her to join him?

3. Snoke was useless and killed off for no reason: Says who? Because his body was sliced in half by a lightsaber? If Luke was able to astral project a solid image of himself from thousands of light years away who's to say Snoke wasn't doing the same thing? What better way to manipulate Kylo/Rey without their knowledge then to make them believe he's dead?

4. The various CGI animals: Is this really a gripe? The Porgs were annoying comedic relief but were in the movie for what? 30 seconds of screen time total? Same thing with the ice foxes. Granted the big horse-dog things were given a good 10minutes during a pretty lame subplot, but overall why is seeing new life forms a deal breaker? Wasn't the Mos Eisley canteena just an excuse to show a bunch of weird aliens? And isn't that scene revered as a classic?

Anyway, just my take.

1. Then, why the map to his exact location?

2. Kylo wasn't bullshitting because he said that she knew all along and you could tell she was looking inward as he said it and the truth obviously hurt her.  Really, I don't care that she has no divine lineage.  I care that she is a Mary Sue.  It not only hurts any character building for her, but also those who were defending her not being a Mary Sue in the first one, because they thought it would be revealed why she could do such great things without any training.  The most obvious conclusions were either she was Luke's daughter or Snoke's.  But, they just went for the anti-reveal, which makes the Mary Sue thing even more obvious.

3.  That seems likes the same naive thinking done by those who defended the first by saying that Rey's powers would be revealed and that the history of the NO and how they got so powerful, even though the Empire basically fell, would be revealed.  Instead, it's all really just as it seems.  They wanted a new Empire vs Rebellion story, so they just made that the setting without explaining shit.  These films have no nuance to them.  I think you are going to be sadly mistaken if you there is going to be much more than Rey vs Kylo in the last one.

4.  The canteena was to show the setting.  To show crazy creatures in this world.  Not to sell toys by having animals that were specifically designed to be cute doing cute things.  It was just so on the nose it was almost sickening.  It would be one thing if it was just one animal that was mainly in the background, but 3?  It screamed Disney, not Star Wars.

ratchet426 said:
Nymeria said:

I don't mind that Rey is not connected to anyone, on its own I actually like the concept.  The issue is why is she special? Why can she effortlessly do what others either cannot or work hard to achieve?  The obvious shortcut because of this issue was lineage as had been established. If you throw this out Rey becomes a "chosen one" by the force. This removes tension and making her relatable.

Think about this, imagine the boy with the broom at the end shows up in Episode IX and he's stronger than Rey or Ben, well, why not?  "The force is strong with him" and he just beats everyone. It would feel cheap and unearned.  Just because it is new and unpredictable does not equate to being well thought out.

But didn't you just describe Anakin? A little boy shows up and "the force is strong with him" just because?  (well, because midichlorians, but let's no go there...)

I'm not saying that Anakin's origin was handled any better in Phantom Menace, but it's not without precedent to have a "nobody" just be a chosen one by the Force.  It's also highly likely that Rey's true parents haven't been revealed yet. I wouldn't put much stock in Kylo's word that her parents were common criminals who abandonded her. That was a very convenient "you're nobody anyway so come join with me" motivation on his part. And why could HE see her parents in the force vision but she couldn't? Doesn't make sense.

Even though the prequels were poorly written, at least Lucas got some things right.  One of them being that you can't go from 0 to near-Jedi by the half point of the first movie.  Anakin wasn't even a great Jedi until the beginning of the 3rd prequel.  We really should have been shown his training, which is part of the bad writing, but at least we know it was going on since he was Obi Wan's apprentice and they were always together.  He didn't really do anything special as a young kid.  And as a young adult, he got his ass handed to him by Count Dooku in the 2nd film.

OTBWY said:

Only 5?

1: Gravity in space.
2: Poe's arc goes nowhere.
3: Casino bay was all for nothing.
4: Luke is a bad teacher.
5: Somehow I have to care about moral gray area regarding the jedi and the rebels/resistance. Fuck off.
6: Yoda speak complete unbroken sentences.
7: I don't care for Rey. She is an overpowered mary-sue. This movie cements that. Backstory ruined her for me.
8: Ackbar dies unceremoniously, but fuck him, we have Admiral gender studies or Loldo that shows up from nowhere and we are supposed to care about her.
9: Rose is useless, also, yin and yang? Really? Wrong sister died btw.
10: So many un-starwarsy shots: Slow-motion, extreme close ups, long drawn out scenes.
11: The plot and battle are basically straight out of a Star Wars Rebels episode.
12: Super weapons are useless, since anyone can kamikaze hypedrive the fuck out of them.
13: Porgs are annoying, Chewy is reduces to comic relief with porgs.
14: Hardly any R2 and C3PO scenes. Hello?
15: BB8 the superdroid can take on the first order himself.
16: How the hell did the resistance get reduced to 40 people? Where's everyone?
17: Snoke was cool, but wasted and dead. Basically Snope.
18: Leia Supermans out of space.
19: Dumb 1940 style bombers. So Y-Wings not useful anymore? What happened to them?
20: Luke never taught the third lesson.
21: Titmonsters and blue milk.
22: Benicio del Toro is useless.
23: Finn should have sacrificed himself.
24: "Chrome Dome"
25: Death of not-Boba.
26: Kylo is now the main villain. The guy that lost against the mary-sue.
27: Huxtable is reduced to comic relief.
28: The humor is Disney Marvel humor. I thought they were all gonna go for Shawarma afterwards.
29: Animals rights for kangeroo horses.
30: Jedi books. So what happened to holocrons?
31: The Rebel emblem thrown in your face at points.
32: Force sensitive stable boy with broom lightsaber. Who? Why? Who cares.
33: Leia survives. Luke doesn't.
34: Why does Luke force project himself? Just go there.
35: Flat iron troll shot.
36: Pointless shots like the soldier taking a taste of the salt on the surface.
37: Movie is too long.
38: Weak reasoning on Luke and Ben history.
39: Maz Kanada video game hologram.
40: Let go of the past.... Kill the past.... member the Rebels?

I can go on and on.

People praising this movie as on the best are lying to themselves to save face. Give it some years.

9. Me and my friend agreed on the wrong sister dying.  Rose just seems so out of place in this world.  Seems like a child in an adult's body.  And, yea, the Ying Yang was very stereotypical.  You would think in this universe they could have come up with a unique symbol that conveyed the same premise.

11. Exactly.  The main plot just seemed like an extended episode of Star Trek:TNG to me.  And just one of the okay ones, at that.

13.  Yep.  And remember, this takes place just a few days, maybe weeks, after his best friend for decades has died.  Doesn't seem like he's too broken up about it, though.

16. One of the biggest flaws of this new universe is they wanted to just do another HUGE Empire vs small Rebellion, like the original movies.  But, they never set it up how it even got this way after the Rebellion won.  It basically makes it seem like Palpatine was just a lackey in charge of a small section of the Empire, while the useless Snoke was the real ruler.  Which makes the Rebellion celebrating at the end of ROTJ now seem extremely premature.

17.  He would have been better if he didn't talk in such cliche lines that telegraphed his own death.

21.  This was very cringeworthy.  The worst part is that this should have been a scene of Luke going about his daily routine, while Rey continues to talk to him.  This way he gets to know her while we do, as well.  Instead it was a mini-montage that was trying so hard to be funny.

24.  Also very cringeworthy.

32.  So he did use the force to bring the broom to him?  I thought so, but wasn't 100% sure.  Another young Anakin, here we come.  Yay...

34.  Exactly.  If he was just going to die from exhaustion from doing that, then have him actually go there, and go out like a hero, not a bitch.  It was even hinted at, since they specifically decided to show his X-Wing under water.

36.  That was really cringe inducing.  They wanted to have their own Hoth, but it's totally not Hoth if it's salt instead of snow.  Right?  Right?

And I do agree with you that this was basically them trying to make Star Wars more like Marvel.  Don't get me wrong, I love the Marvel films.  But, that's just it, they are the Marvel films.  Their own thing.  They aren't Star Wars, nor should Star Wars be them.  I guess Disney saw that the Marvel films were making more money off of toy sales than the last SW film, so they wanted to try to correct that.  In doing so, though, they are going to make quite a bit less money at the box office with this film compared to TFA.



 

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Arminillo on 18 December 2017
StarOcean said:

This may be the worst nit-picks I've seen for this movie and that's saying something. Like, I've seen bad opinions but this one is really bad.
Also SW "fans" gotta stop worshipping puppets like they're the most amazing thing in the universe. Jesus Christ, you'd think the only thing this fanbase watches outside of SW is the Sesame Street Star Wars Special where puppets are everywhere. We get it, you got raped by CGI in the form of Jar Jar. He got you good in the butthole and now you have a PTSD aversion to them. They aren't bad. CGI is fine. And it definitely wasn't used in a bad way this movie

The rest of your stuff is not really worth even covering since it's just word vomit

ALSO: I'm not pretending the movie is perfect. But none of these were real issues the movie had. There are plenty of glaring issues that were not addressed in this "Top 5"

Total disclosure: Puppet Yoda felt out of place and looked amateurish.



Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda!!!!


OTBWY on 19 December 2017

41: The Luke shoulder swipe.
42: Snope's body falling and his tongue out like some cartoon.
43: What are all the other first order ships doing?
44: If Luke didn't want to be found, how come there was a map?
45: Stupid salt foxes. It was all CG. I don't care that they had some puppet model they didn't use. It was CG.
46: 75% of all fighter pilots are female. If this isn't gender politics, I don't know what is.
47: Dumb island nun aliens.
48: Over reliance on trinkets. The cubes, the yin-yang, the rebel insignia ring.
49: Walkers do nothing. They just walk and then stand. Oh, they shoot at ghost Luke. Wow.
50: Why didn't loldo just tell Poe what they were going to do?



haxxiy on 19 December 2017

The whole "light rises to meet dark" to explain how powerful Rey can instantly be was one of the worst explanations for an in-universe walking deus ex machina since Wheel of Time and the T'averen. Not even Anakin was that powerful, he actually paid with the loss of a limb the first time he tried to face an (apprentice) sith lord, and that's after 10 years of Jedi training.

Apparently also both imperial and rebel ships accelerate (I assume they were accelerating since, you know, you there is inertia in space, I'm not entirely sure the director was aware of that) at exactly the same speed. Not to mention apparently they are very slow, no more than 2 or 3 km/s otherwise they would have hit lightspeed or beyond before the 18 hours were up. Also, you build a superweapon that can carry septillions of Watts of energy through hyperspace and your cannons cannot hit something 10-20 km ahead? Besides, again, I'm not sure Johnson knows this, but there is inertia in space, you can fire your plasma cannons alright, they are not going to fizzle out in 20 km.

Also, jokes overstaying their welcome, making you cringe or coming at innapropriate moments, to the point you would expect Rey to crack one as Snoke dies. I would have expect Hux could be a threat to Ren the next movie but no, he is only a butt monkey that can be easily tricked.

Hyperspace ramming. Given how these ships accelerate very slowly and conventionally, I would suppose hyperspace it's just a space were distances are shorter, or mass is much reduced and there is no lightspeed, anything at all to explain how every conflict in the series wasn't solved by Kamikaze bombing something else. But no, it actually makes for lethal kinectic weapons that somehow, no one thought about before that admiral. Why didn't they Kamikaze'd the other ships as they ran out of fuel? Why didn't the First Order ever Kamikaze'd an robot or martyr-piloted ship into the rebels?

Luke has not only regressed absolutely in character development but also was an ungrateful bastard who was going to destroy everything the little aliens cared for a thousand generations. Much like his mother, it seems, he doesn't care about aliens and only the slaughter of Jedi younglings can move him emotionally and morally at all.

Luke force-projecting and dying anyway. If he's going to die, like some mentioned, he could actually be there. Imagine if it had happened elsewhere in the series?

a - Obi-Wan force projects to fight Vader on ANH. He buys them time, but actually dies in Tatooine afterwards.

a - Yoda force projects to fight the emperor in ROJ. It doesn't ammount to nothing, and he dies.

b - Anakin is defeated by Obi-Wan on ROTS, but he is a force projection, and actually catches fire for some reason where he stood.

Obviously someone can see why these aren't at all emotionally moving or even make sense story-wise.

Last edited by haxxiy - on 19 December 2017

 

 

 

 

 

Mandalore76 on 19 December 2017
ratchet426 said:
Just some counter-arguments from someone who actually thought TLJ was pretty good. Not "fantastic", but certainly not "the worst movie EVAH! They RUINED the franchise for me!"

1. "ruining" Luke: He banished himself on that island because he felt that any interaction with force-sensitives would go horribly wrong again, like it did with Kylo. He can't forgive himself for not saving his own nephew from sliding down the dark path. Yes, he's old(er) and bitter now, and wants nothing to do with his former conceit as The Great Jedi Master Luke. He even says that his ego caused his failure with Ben/Kylo, so he has shed that part of his past forever. It's called "character development" folks. Just because Luke Skywalker hasn't remained the exact same person he was at the end of Return of the Jedi doesn't make TLJ a bad movie for "ruining" him.

2. Rey is just a "nobody" afterall: ...And? Why does every hero character have to has some kind of divine lineage to previous trilogy characters to be considered valid? So maybe Rey isn't a Skywalker or a Solo or a Kenobi or a Palpatine or whatever. Who cares? And besides, you're basing the conclusion that her parents were nobodies because Kylo Ren _said so_? Who's to say he wasn't bullshitting her to get her to join him?

3. Snoke was useless and killed off for no reason: Says who? Because his body was sliced in half by a lightsaber? If Luke was able to astral project a solid image of himself from thousands of light years away who's to say Snoke wasn't doing the same thing? What better way to manipulate Kylo/Rey without their knowledge then to make them believe he's dead?

4. The various CGI animals: Is this really a gripe? The Porgs were annoying comedic relief but were in the movie for what? 30 seconds of screen time total? Same thing with the ice foxes. Granted the big horse-dog things were given a good 10minutes during a pretty lame subplot, but overall why is seeing new life forms a deal breaker? Wasn't the Mos Eisley canteena just an excuse to show a bunch of weird aliens? And isn't that scene revered as a classic?

Anyway, just my take.

Yes, because his body was cut in half by a lightsaber.  That's what proves Snoke was actually there.  Luke ducked all of Kylo's lightsaber attacks, because if they ever made contact, Kylo would go right through him too soon, and not give the Rebels time to escape.  When Kylo finally does thrust his lightsaber through Luke, it goes right through him because he was just an astral projection.  Snoke was literally cut in half, because he was there.  And, his sliced in half corpse remained there for ever throne room scene after, because he was there.  The bottom half of his body even falls off of the throne in a later scene, because he was there.  Unless you think Snoke was hiding in the next room the entire time, so committed to his ruse that he force projects the bottom half of his body falling off the throne as an exclamation point to his gag.  (That would actually be a nice deleted scene that would fit in with the first half of the film's tone which felt more like a live action Seth McFarlane's "Blue Harvest" episode of Family Guy instead of being an actual Star Wars movie.)  

The point being, that there is no way that was a force projection of Snoke.  If you said "body double", then maybe.  But, even this I doubt.  Because then you have to combine a body double being there acting like Snoke, and Snoke still having to control the room to force snatch the lightsaber back from Rey which is redundant and makes Snoke look cowardly (afraid to be in the same room as Kylo and Rey) instead of over-confident.



numberwang on 19 December 2017

I heard this movie is about the Empire against the Rebels with some good and bad guys fighting?

How often can you watch the same movie?