StarOcean said:
Yes, you do people do hate CG. You hate all of it and would prefer all of Star Wars be done with muppets and people holding the spaceship models on screen with hands visible. People disappointed in the film are the only ones that'll use RT or Metacritic. People don't hate them just like people don't hate the Prequels. The vast majority of people are very much fine with them |
Oh yes, because that's how shitty the effects looked in the original one. You know when you have to argue in hyperbole, you are admitting defeat.
Nymeria said:
I wanted to respond to this point as a female and someone who tends to like "girl power" when handled well. I was a Rey apologist for two years. I had a bit of bias of liking her personality scavenging and thought the actress was good. I excused the abilities as teasing at something and a reveal as to why she could do things others cannot. I was hoping to see her struggle, to have a glimpse at her capacity and then work to control it. She spends maybe a week on the island, half of which she is denied training, gets one lesson, and suddenly she can just do anything. This is insulting and cheap to actual character development and story progression. When I should have been cheering Rey, I felt exactly like some did two years ago of her being a audience insert power fantasy. How would I have done it? Nothing special maybe, but I'd show her train, fail, learn, improve. For example, she'd want to swing the light sabre around and Luke would say "Start simple, just moving rocks". Rey would struggle, move a rock, get excited, then be given a larger rock she cannot move failing. Then at the end when she has to move rocks she struggles, but for her friends connects to the force and pulls off the feat. Emotional catharsis with clear set up and pay off. Instead, she just does it with no strain or tension. A character I should adore I now care nothing for. If she dies in IX, I'll shrug, if she succeeds, I'll shrug. |
Yea, she didn't start out as a bad character. A little too close to Luke, but still not bad. But, when they started having her use the Force effectively against someone who had been training in it for at least a decade, I called bullshit. I mean they didn't even set up her being in tune with it at the beginning of the film, just 0 to near-Jedi at the halfway point.
Now, I wouldn't have excused it completely if the answer was that she was connected through lineage, but at least it would have been SOMETHING. So much of this movie leads to nothing. And it would have definitely helped forgiving it by having scenes with her training with Luke. And yes, that scene near the end with the hill of boulders should have taken everything in her, while she hears the screams of her friends pleading for help. And she should have either passed out or nearly done so. Instead she just casually walks up to them, while the boulders are still midair, like all she did was swat a fly away.
Also, concerning your other post. The Aldo/Po thing was pretty dumb. There was no reason not to tell him. Still, her sacrifice was stupid for one big reason. Those ships have autopilot. There was no reason for her to stay behind. Even when they say she needs to stay back to pilot the ship, and we go back to the bridge, she's just standing there doing nothing. She's not controlling anything, at all. The only time she does anything is when she turns the ship around and lightspeeds into Snoke's ship. But, that wasn't even part of the original plan.
| Veknoid_Outcast said: #5 - I agree. Practical effects are king. They just are. Look at a movie like Fury Road and then look at The Last Jedi. It's night and day. TFA looks better than TLJ, because of its practical effects. Heck, the original trilogy looks better, because of the care and attention that went into models, matte paintings, puppets, etc. #4 - Disagree. While this isn't the Luke we all imagined, I think the script does this interpretation justice. I mean, Luke tells Rey what happened. In his hubris and because of his belief in his own legend, he took on more than he was capable of. Luke represents the Jedi Order, which he now sees as dogmatic and prideful, so he removed that representation from the universe. He hid himself away because the Force belongs to no group or no man. Remember that the original ending of Return of the Jedi has Luke walking off into the sunset. He didn't stick around to rebuild. Honestly, even though it doesn't gel with my own ideas of his character, the conceptualization and character development of Luke in TLJ was handled splendidly. #3 - Disagree. Sure there are some plot conveniences and MacGuffins but these don't detract much from the experience. As Hitchcock said, "effect" is more important than "logic" in movies. #2 - I really don't think of this as "girl power." If you want to call it bad writing fine. I mean, this criticism is applicable, regardless of gender. Framing it as such says more about you than about the movie. #1 - There's a lot going on in this paragraph, and I agree with some and disagree with others. I agree that we needed more time training on the island -- it was the best part of the movie, with the most characterization. This is a structural/narrative problem, though. I also agree that the "gray side" set-up had no payoff. Rey joining Ben in a faction-less "gray" twosome was the smart call here. But they're too afraid to pull the trigger. Part of me thinks Disney intervened here. |
#5 - And it's not that I hate CG. I hate bad CG. Which quite a few of those creatures didn't look much better than ones from the prequels. And even though Snoke was much improved from TFA, CG always looks even more off when you know it could be easily done with makeup. CG really needs to be reserved for things that are almost impossible with practical effects.
#4 - The problem with that is that even if you buy Luke attempting to kill his apprentice, which I can in a moment of weakness, you would also have to believe that he would completely change his character after that happened. The real Luke wouldn't have just run away and leave his friends and family to deal with his screw up. Still, even if we do go with this interpretation, it still contradicts itself. If he just wanted to be left alone to die as the last real Jedi, why make a map to his location? And if the map was for a last ditch effort for when they needed him, which some speculated, why continue to say screw you when someone actually finds you?
#3 - Conveniences/MacGuffins and gaping plot holes are two completely different things. The former tests the limits of your suspension of disbelief if its too jarring. The latter, however, just dashes it to pieces and takes you out of the movie.
#2 - It has nothing to do with me. It's what the writers have set up from the beginning. Kylo needed a decade or more of training to get to where he is, now. Rey, not one single minute of it to thwart him. And in TLJ, she has 5 mins of training and is all of a sudden a Jedi master. Even Leia becomes Super Leia and can survive the vacuum of space, even though the movies make it seem like she has been too busy running the rebellion to train like Luke has. And the only real thing she has been able to do before was sense disturbances in the Force, and had a connection to her brother.
#1 - I'm guessing it was Disney who intervened to some extent. At least I'm sure they made sure that they had some cute animals to push toy sales with. Not sure if they really intervened in the story, though, except possibly the Casino part. That reeked of generic live action Disney.
Last edited by thismeintiel - on 19 December 2017
