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Forums - Movies & TV - Top 5 Things I Disliked About SW:TLJ

Just some counter-arguments from someone who actually thought TLJ was pretty good. Not "fantastic", but certainly not "the worst movie EVAH! They RUINED the franchise for me!"

1. "ruining" Luke: He banished himself on that island because he felt that any interaction with force-sensitives would go horribly wrong again, like it did with Kylo. He can't forgive himself for not saving his own nephew from sliding down the dark path. Yes, he's old(er) and bitter now, and wants nothing to do with his former conceit as The Great Jedi Master Luke. He even says that his ego caused his failure with Ben/Kylo, so he has shed that part of his past forever. It's called "character development" folks. Just because Luke Skywalker hasn't remained the exact same person he was at the end of Return of the Jedi doesn't make TLJ a bad movie for "ruining" him.

2. Rey is just a "nobody" afterall: ...And? Why does every hero character have to has some kind of divine lineage to previous trilogy characters to be considered valid? So maybe Rey isn't a Skywalker or a Solo or a Kenobi or a Palpatine or whatever. Who cares? And besides, you're basing the conclusion that her parents were nobodies because Kylo Ren _said so_? Who's to say he wasn't bullshitting her to get her to join him?

3. Snoke was useless and killed off for no reason: Says who? Because his body was sliced in half by a lightsaber? If Luke was able to astral project a solid image of himself from thousands of light years away who's to say Snoke wasn't doing the same thing? What better way to manipulate Kylo/Rey without their knowledge then to make them believe he's dead?

4. The various CGI animals: Is this really a gripe? The Porgs were annoying comedic relief but were in the movie for what? 30 seconds of screen time total? Same thing with the ice foxes. Granted the big horse-dog things were given a good 10minutes during a pretty lame subplot, but overall why is seeing new life forms a deal breaker? Wasn't the Mos Eisley canteena just an excuse to show a bunch of weird aliens? And isn't that scene revered as a classic?

Anyway, just my take.



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ratchet426 said:

2. Rey is just a "nobody" afterall: ...And? Why does every hero character have to has some kind of divine lineage to previous trilogy characters to be considered valid? So maybe Rey isn't a Skywalker or a Solo or a Kenobi or a Palpatine or whatever. Who cares? And besides, you're basing the conclusion that her parents were nobodies because Kylo Ren _said so_? Who's to say he wasn't bullshitting her to get her to join him?


I don't mind that Rey is not connected to anyone, on its own I actually like the concept.  The issue is why is she special? Why can she effortlessly do what others either cannot or work hard to achieve?  The obvious shortcut because of this issue was lineage as had been established. If you throw this out Rey becomes a "chosen one" by the force. This removes tension and making her relatable.

Think about this, imagine the boy with the broom at the end shows up in Episode IX and he's stronger than Rey or Ben, well, why not?  "The force is strong with him" and he just beats everyone. It would feel cheap and unearned.  Just because it is new and unpredictable does not equate to being well thought out.

How I would have done it.  Have Rey struggle in her training with Luke, she is at a low point unable to move a stone or focus.  At this point have the vision connection of her seeking meaning and parents and finding the truth she knew, but was ashamed of. Her training would be confronting this fact, coming to terms with it, and progressing past it allowing her to improve in her quest.  Luke's revelation would be learning his parentage, Rey's would be accepting hers.



Nymeria said:
ratchet426 said:

2. Rey is just a "nobody" afterall: ...And? Why does every hero character have to has some kind of divine lineage to previous trilogy characters to be considered valid? So maybe Rey isn't a Skywalker or a Solo or a Kenobi or a Palpatine or whatever. Who cares? And besides, you're basing the conclusion that her parents were nobodies because Kylo Ren _said so_? Who's to say he wasn't bullshitting her to get her to join him?


I don't mind that Rey is not connected to anyone, on its own I actually like the concept.  The issue is why is she special? Why can she effortlessly do what others either cannot or work hard to achieve?  The obvious shortcut because of this issue was lineage as had been established. If you throw this out Rey becomes a "chosen one" by the force. This removes tension and making her relatable.

Think about this, imagine the boy with the broom at the end shows up in Episode IX and he's stronger than Rey or Ben, well, why not?  "The force is strong with him" and he just beats everyone. It would feel cheap and unearned.  Just because it is new and unpredictable does not equate to being well thought out.

But didn't you just describe Anakin? A little boy shows up and "the force is strong with him" just because?  (well, because midichlorians, but let's no go there...)

I'm not saying that Anakin's origin was handled any better in Phantom Menace, but it's not without precedent to have a "nobody" just be a chosen one by the Force.  It's also highly likely that Rey's true parents haven't been revealed yet. I wouldn't put much stock in Kylo's word that her parents were common criminals who abandonded her. That was a very convenient "you're nobody anyway so come join with me" motivation on his part. And why could HE see her parents in the force vision but she couldn't? Doesn't make sense.



Only 5?

1: Gravity in space.
2: Poe's arc goes nowhere.
3: Casino bay was all for nothing.
4: Luke is a bad teacher.
5: Somehow I have to care about moral gray area regarding the jedi and the rebels/resistance. Fuck off.
6: Yoda speak complete unbroken sentences.
7: I don't care for Rey. She is an overpowered mary-sue. This movie cements that. Backstory ruined her for me.
8: Ackbar dies unceremoniously, but fuck him, we have Admiral gender studies or Loldo that shows up from nowhere and we are supposed to care about her.
9: Rose is useless, also, yin and yang? Really? Wrong sister died btw.
10: So many un-starwarsy shots: Slow-motion, extreme close ups, long drawn out scenes.
11: The plot and battle are basically straight out of a Star Wars Rebels episode.
12: Super weapons are useless, since anyone can kamikaze hypedrive the fuck out of them.
13: Porgs are annoying, Chewy is reduces to comic relief with porgs.
14: Hardly any R2 and C3PO scenes. Hello?
15: BB8 the superdroid can take on the first order himself.
16: How the hell did the resistance get reduced to 40 people? Where's everyone?
17: Snoke was cool, but wasted and dead. Basically Snope.
18: Leia Supermans out of space.
19: Dumb 1940 style bombers. So Y-Wings not useful anymore? What happened to them?
20: Luke never taught the third lesson.
21: Titmonsters and blue milk.
22: Benicio del Toro is useless.
23: Finn should have sacrificed himself.
24: "Chrome Dome"
25: Death of not-Boba.
26: Kylo is now the main villain. The guy that lost against the mary-sue.
27: Huxtable is reduced to comic relief.
28: The humor is Disney Marvel humor. I thought they were all gonna go for Shawarma afterwards.
29: Animals rights for kangeroo horses.
30: Jedi books. So what happened to holocrons?
31: The Rebel emblem thrown in your face at points.
32: Force sensitive stable boy with broom lightsaber. Who? Why? Who cares.
33: Leia survives. Luke doesn't.
34: Why does Luke force project himself? Just go there.
35: Flat iron troll shot.
36: Pointless shots like the soldier taking a taste of the salt on the surface.
37: Movie is too long.
38: Weak reasoning on Luke and Ben history.
39: Maz Kanada video game hologram.
40: Let go of the past.... Kill the past.... member the Rebels?

I can go on and on.

People praising this movie as on the best are lying to themselves to save face. Give it some years.



ratchet426 said:
Nymeria said:

I don't mind that Rey is not connected to anyone, on its own I actually like the concept.  The issue is why is she special? Why can she effortlessly do what others either cannot or work hard to achieve?  The obvious shortcut because of this issue was lineage as had been established. If you throw this out Rey becomes a "chosen one" by the force. This removes tension and making her relatable.

Think about this, imagine the boy with the broom at the end shows up in Episode IX and he's stronger than Rey or Ben, well, why not?  "The force is strong with him" and he just beats everyone. It would feel cheap and unearned.  Just because it is new and unpredictable does not equate to being well thought out.

But didn't you just describe Anakin? A little boy shows up and "the force is strong with him" just because?  (well, because midichlorians, but let's no go there...)

I'm not saying that Anakin's origin was handled any better in Phantom Menace, but it's not without precedent to have a "nobody" just be a chosen one by the Force.  It's also highly likely that Rey's true parents haven't been revealed yet. I wouldn't put much stock in Kylo's word that her parents were common criminals who abandonded her. That was a very convenient "you're nobody anyway so come join with me" motivation on his part. And why could HE see her parents in the force vision but she couldn't? Doesn't make sense.

Yes, and I didn't like that in Phantom Menace.  If Rey showed the Force Awakened in people and she was someone who in her solitude found a connection that could be molded.  She isn't special due to being powerful, chosen, or of lineage, she just pushes herself and through trials achieves greatness.  Others could do it, but her upbringing and attitude made Rey who she was.  I wanted her to earn her abilities to explain why even though no one is "special" one can still through works and understanding rise up.



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I have question nobody here seems to have talked about yet.....

How do you guys feel about pretty much all rebel/resistance members being essentially suicide bombers? I mean seriously. Disney might wanna be careful imo making every single good guy a martyr, or wanna-be martyr. Putting aside the message it might send to some, it's also just really getting old, and it makes all the good guys look incompetent, when that's all you can ever come up with.



Nymeria said:
KLAMarine said:

TFA should have served as a warning.

With hindsight right now my rating of Force Awakens has dropped after seeing Last Jedi.  It would take something monumental for IX to redeem VII and VIII for me.

lol, I had a low opinion of TFA from the beginning: recycled IV's plot, Mary Sue Rey, Kylo Ren being wimpy. Ugh.



KLAMarine said:
Nymeria said:

With hindsight right now my rating of Force Awakens has dropped after seeing Last Jedi.  It would take something monumental for IX to redeem VII and VIII for me.

lol, I had a low opinion of TFA from the beginning: recycled IV's plot, Mary Sue Rey, Kylo Ren being wimpy. Ugh.

I excused it as being the first third of a story.  Luke in a New Hope wasn't great, but by the time Jedi ended I loved him.  At this rate I actually dislike Rey, Finn, Kylo, Hux, Poe, and all far more because their development felt regressive.

This is going to be three movies made haphazardly which explains why Johnson tossed aside everything Abrams did.  So, why can't Abrams just retcon it all back?  This would be like having different authors writing different chapters of a book with no discussion between them.



Nymeria said:
KLAMarine said:

lol, I had a low opinion of TFA from the beginning: recycled IV's plot, Mary Sue Rey, Kylo Ren being wimpy. Ugh.

I excused it as being the first third of a story.  Luke in a New Hope wasn't great, but by the time Jedi ended I loved him.  At this rate I actually dislike Rey, Finn, Kylo, Hux, Poe, and all far more because their development felt regressive.

This is going to be three movies made haphazardly which explains why Johnson tossed aside everything Abrams did.  So, why can't Abrams just retcon it all back?  This would be like having different authors writing different chapters of a book with no discussion between them.

I liked Luke in IV plenty. Rey has little excuse.

The first 2 thirds of this trilogy just feels like a mess. Does not bode well for the third.



Angelus said:
I have question nobody here seems to have talked about yet.....

How do you guys feel about pretty much all rebel/resistance members being essentially suicide bombers? I mean seriously. Disney might wanna be careful imo making every single good guy a martyr, or wanna-be martyr. Putting aside the message it might send to some, it's also just really getting old, and it makes all the good guys look incompetent, when that's all you can ever come up with.

That didn't bother me because it felt like hammering how desperate the situation is.  They keep losing, they are down to few hundred people and taking casualties over and over.  What bothered me more was Rose being a fool and "saving" Finn from doing it, delivering that cringey line of "save the ones we love". All she did was condemn them both and all their friends.  Think about him dragging her that kilometer across the salt flat in front of multiple AT-ATs.  Idealism dies in desperation.

I agree it is awful situation and all, but that is their predicament.  It really made Poe come across as a sociopath to be casual when they lose so many people.  I would have liked to see it change him from being wise cracking to seeing the gravity of decisions and the challenge in front of them emerging as the leader of the rebellion.