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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Digital Foundry takes on Xenoblade Chronicles 2

Disappointed in the lack of polish in this title, although it was clear early on this was the case. Sad to hear it doesn't match the quality in other Nintendo games when X was easily the go to game on Wii U as well as XC on Wii.



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Barkley said:
Miyamotoo said: 

This is definitely overacting, we talking about only one example thats probably not optimized well for handheld mode. Just look at Zelda BotW game that looks better and has all those real time effects and physics runs at 650-720p.

Right but if a first-party developers making an exclusive game can't optimise well then what can be expected from third party's releasing demanding multiplatforms. If a first-party exclusive game can barely run in handheld mode it's not a good indicator for demanding third-party multi-platform releases, optimising for the switch will be a lot lower down their priorities then an exclusive title.

A question that's been brought up before is, will Nintendo allow docked only games that can't run handheld. Or will they just have to miss out on games that simply can't run, or whose developers aren't willing to put the time in to make them run.

Third parties are going to do what they are going to do, regardless of platform or hardware.  When a dev is cutting corners for a deadline, it doesn't matter how good the hardware is.  Did the specs of the Xbox One and PS4 prevent Ubisoft from dumping Assassin's Creed Unity onto the market in a horrible state?  Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was apparently pushed to make it out in time for Switch's first holiday season when it probably would have benefited from more time.  It's not a matter of 1st party vs 3rd party.  It's a matter of rushing to meet a deadline.



all that stuff about bad performance and i only noticed a framedip once in the village(not saying they don't happen) but threads like this remind me how good or badly a games performs is usually blown out of proportion by gamers on forums



Kai_Mao said:
curl-6 said:

Given other first party titles have not suffered from this issue, I suspect Xenoblade 2 was somewhat rushed to make it out in time for the holiday season.

As for demanding third party ports, we already have Doom running at a higher resolution when portable compared to Xenoblade 2.

I'm not sure if 3.5. years of development necessarily counts as rushing. It could also be related to Monolith Soft adapting to the Switch's hardware even though specs-wise, the Switch is not that much more powerful than the Wii U. Docked-wise, its pretty good, its just the portable mode that suffers the most. Hopefully they'll patch it when they are able to optimize the game.

Being in production for 3.5 years is no guarantee that it was fully ready at launch. The E3 build of XBC2 looked far from finished, more like something you'd expect from a game a year or more away. The first 3 years of production could have gone fine, but then the final 6 months or so could've been a mad rush that resulted in the game being pushed out the door before being fully polished in order to make it out in time for the holidays.



Kyuu said:
Zekkyou said:

I don't think XC2 is a particularly useful reference point for 3rd party developers. Many of its issues extend beyond what makes sense (e.g. the resolution sometimes dropping almost twice as much as what the handheld GPU downclock should justify), and it having been pushed out too early is a reasonable explanation for them.

Doom would be a better example given it's an actual 3rd party port, and seemingly a pretty well handled one. There's a limit to how broadly we can apply any single game here simply because they're all balanced differently, but Doom has highlighted the difficulty many less flexible titles are likley to face.

Doom isn't a very good example either because it ran at a dynamic 1080p/60fps on PS4 (and even Xbox One)

Demanding open/large world games that target 30fps on PS4 (like Monster Hunter World) are some entirely different beasts that will be a lot more challenging to port. The Switch otherwise shouldn't have too much trouble handling games that target 60fps on base PS4.

And I don't know about rushing, but word has it that XC2 took three years in the making, or since before XCX came out. Regardless, if a highly regarded first party studio struggles with optimizing, then expectations from third party ports have to be lowered as well (or to put it in another way.. porting games at a later date rather than releasing them simultaneously across all platforms will have to be the norm if you want "unlazy", reasonably optimized, ports)

The PS4 version of Doom doesn't fluctuate much, and only slightly when it does (the exact quote from DF "it boasts a full 1080p output for the vast majority of the duration, with minor drops in resolution occurring in select circumstances"). It's not perfect, but the PS4 version is certainly a better example than a game with no secondary reference at all, and with issues not currently present in any other Nintendo title (despite being made by one of Nintendo's most technically competent studios).

My point (which was largely in agreement with yours, just with a different reference) is that Doom presented far more wiggle room for the Switch than most higher end PS4/X1 titles, which makes it a good reference for many less flexible ones. It doesn't predict the specific outcome (especially when compared to titles with very different technical balances), but it does give a baseline for what a flexible title can do, and by extension highlight the difficulties some less flexible titles will face. MHW could well be such an example. It runs at almost half Doom's performance profile, and has a much less focused design. If it pushes the PS4 anywhere near as much as Doom, then Doom would be a good reference for saying something like "porting MHW would be exceptionally difficult".

It's also worth noting that XCX spent 5+ years in development. 3.5 years might be a lot, but it doesn't grantee they were 100% done. Given the unique nature of XC2's issues, and the record of who made it, i'm still inclined to believe time restrains played a role.

(Just a side note: My future replies might be a bit slow, sorry. I'm currently not staying at home, and don't like posting on my phone. I popped back to get some washing done, so i wrote this comment while waiting for it to finish lol).



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Kyuu said:

Though I would have liked if people stopped attacking third parties, or spamming the word "lazy port!" around as if all developers have an obligation to push systems close to their limits, let alone when that system is a lot weaker than the lead platform.

As customers, we have every right to object to being offered subpar products. If I opened a restaurant and started serving terrible food, should I be exempt from criticism?

Some ports are good, others are bad. The latter deserve to be called out.



Kyuu said:
Zekkyou said:

The PS4 version of Doom doesn't fluctuate much, and only slightly when it does (the exact quote from DF "it boasts a full 1080p output for the vast majority of the duration, with minor drops in resolution occurring in select circumstances"). It's not perfect, but the PS4 version is certainly a better example than a game with no secondary reference at all, and with issues not currently present in any other Nintendo title (despite being made by one of Nintendo's most technically competent studios).

My point (which was largely in agreement with yours, just with a different reference) is that Doom presented far more wiggle room for the Switch than most higher end PS4/X1 titles, which makes it a good reference for many less flexible ones. It doesn't predict the specific outcome (especially when compared to titles with very different technical balances), but it does give a baseline for what a flexible title can do, and by extension highlight the difficulties some less flexible titles will face. MHW could well be such an example. It runs at almost half Doom's performance profile, and has a much less focused design. If it pushes the PS4 anywhere near as much as Doom, then Doom would be a good reference for saying something like "porting MHW would be exceptionally difficult".

It's also worth noting that XCX spent 5+ years in development. 3.5 years might be a lot, but it doesn't grantee they were 100% done. Given the unique nature of XC2's issues, and the record of who made it, i'm still inclined to believe time restrains played a role.

(Just a side note: My future replies might be a bit slow, sorry. I'm currently not staying at home, and don't like posting on my phone. I popped back to get some washing done, so i wrote this comment while waiting for it to finish lol).

My bad, I misunderstood you a little. It's true that Doom is in many ways the better reference, but I used Xenoblade because it has large world sections similar to Monster Hunter World. The collective references is what I would use to set expectations about Switch ports. Though I would have liked if people stopped attacking third parties, or spamming the word "lazy port!" around as if all developers have an obligation to push systems close to their limits, let alone when that system is a lot weaker than the lead platform.

Yes, Monolith Soft are probably gonna patch it soon but it won't be a night and day difference. A not-well-optimized first party game should still be above the average third party port that is initially designed for PS4.

And you're good :D I'm not much of an active user myself, and VGC is one nasty nightmare on the phone! Cheers.

Seems we're mostly in agreement then :) You're definitely right that XC2 is useful as an additional reference for comparable stuff like MHW (at least the docked version), though we'll need to wait until MHW is out before making firm comparisons.

I tried to get onto VGC on my phone yesterday, but it crashed when i tried to open a thread. I gave up pretty quickly