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Forums - Politics Discussion - Largest mass shooting in Egyptian history takes place - 184+ dead and 120+ injured

Aura7541 said:
monocle_layton said:

The Bible is extremely violent as well.

The reason why Christianity itself isn't as violent is due to the reformations which took place. Had Islam experienced said reformation and Christianity didn't, then I would anticipate Islam being in Christianity's role today

Exactly this. The Protestant Reformation and the Renaissance greatly challenged the orthodox principles of Christianity (namely the Catholic Church) back then. And those events occurred about 500 years ago.

violent in what sense?

I wouldn't stick too much on detail regarding religion since everything about them has been written having in mind what was known and understood 2000/1400 years ago, what seems violent today could have been quite normal back then

I'd rather stick to the fact that both Christianity and Islam are very peaceful religions, people who commit these kind of attacks are clearly manipulated and deluded by other deluded manics, who do not accept that religions only exist as guidance from above for people to live in peace, but instead they devote their lives on the exact opposite thing of what religions suggest



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

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Paperboy_J said:
Kerotan said:
That's terrible news. Muslims are at war with one another. In the West a lot think they just hate non Muslims these extremists, but in reality they often hate each other just as much.

Anyway can't wait for the day all our religions are considered mythology which they are. And I say can't wait because I'll be dead by then.

Religion has nothing to do with this.  These motherfuckers are crazy, end of story.  The religion didn't "make" them do it.  They did it on their own.

If you read a religious book, tome, scripture or whatever and it makes you suddenly want to go and murder hundreds of people, then you're already crazy.  The religion didn't make you crazy.  You're crazy already.

And besides, there are many violent shootings happening in the world (just look at America) that have nothing to do with religion.  How do you explain those?  You really think this world would be at peace if religion went away?

Pretty much everyone can be manipulated to do such things. These people aren't born 'crazy' , they're made that way by their religion and terrorist organisations. Just compare it to the Nazi's, do you really believe that they were all just 'crazy'?

And no, religion isn't the only way to manipulate people into doing these things, but it's by far the most common and effective one.



Paperboy_J said:
Kerotan said:
That's terrible news. Muslims are at war with one another. In the West a lot think they just hate non Muslims these extremists, but in reality they often hate each other just as much.

Anyway can't wait for the day all our religions are considered mythology which they are. And I say can't wait because I'll be dead by then.

Religion has nothing to do with this.  These motherfuckers are crazy, end of story.  The religion didn't "make" them do it.  They did it on their own.

If you read a religious book, tome, scripture or whatever and it makes you suddenly want to go and murder hundreds of people, then you're already crazy.  The religion didn't make you crazy.  You're crazy already.

And besides, there are many violent shootings happening in the world (just look at America) that have nothing to do with religion.  How do you explain those?  You really think this world would be at peace if religion went away?

Arguing violence would magically disappear without religion is unfair, but that's a common argument which misrepresents the point made.

 

Religion definitely does play a role. Had these people been atheists, they most likely wouldn't kill each other for something as simple as how they worship (or don't worship) a higher being. This attack took place due to political conflicts which originally stem from a bitter Shia and Sunni rivalry that sprung after the death of Muhammad. It is a political issue, but it's clear that religion plays a role.

 

Religion inspires people, for better and worse. 



JRPGfan said:

Islam the religion of peace.....
Why are there so many crazy muslims in this world? what is it that attracts the crazies? or about it that makes people crazy?

Muslims were also the victim in this don't forget.

Religion doesn't make people any more violent than a video game, movie or book.
Some people are violent because they are douche' bags.

Personally as an Atheist though, I would like for all religion to be abolished, especially the Abrahamic middle eastern religions of Christianity, Islam and Judaism... Then people cannot use their silly fairy tales as a justification for bigotry, hate or murder.

Flilix said:

True. The Bible constantly talks about peace an love, which makes it a little less dangerous than the Koran (even though the Bible can just as easily be misused).

Muhammed was a warrior and an emperor, while Jesus was just a hippie.

The Bible also talks about women serving men, sentencing homosexuals to death, sacrifices, stoning of children, owning slaves and more.
The Bible's Old Testament is especially horrific and violent.

However... What many people seem to forget is that the Torah (Jews bible) and the Quran (Muslim Bible) are based on the same Abrahamic texts as the Bibles Old Testament, they share many of the same characters, events and locations. - They have their own twist of course.
Which is why the Bible (Leviticus) forbids the consumption of Pork which is the same as the Torah and Quran.

monocle_layton said:

The reason why Christianity itself isn't as violent is due to the reformations which took place. Had Islam experienced said reformation and Christianity didn't, then I would anticipate Islam being in Christianity's role today

Well. Christian Nations are where the majority of Christians live... And they also tend to be developed nations with higher levels of education, healthcare... Lower levels of poverty and inequality and tend to have stable and fair governments, military, police and justice systems... Which has a massive reduction in extremists/terror groups coming to terms. (That's not to say it can't happen though, KKK being a prime example.)

However... Take all that away and teleport you to a 3rd world country in Africa... There are plenty of Christian terrorists, violence and extremists.
An example would be Joseph Kony and the Lord's Resistance Army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Kony
Who have raped, pillaged, murdered, abducted children and turned them into soldiers and so on.

There is also a group called "Anti-balaka" in Africa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-balaka
Which have converted Muslims to Christianity, performed be-headings and so on.

India is littered with tons of small Christian terror groups who murder, desecrate temples and so on.

With that... Even if we were to abolish all religion, these groups would still exist, their excuses would simply change... And that is ultimately the sad reality of it all.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Flilix said:
Paperboy_J said:

Religion has nothing to do with this.  These motherfuckers are crazy, end of story.  The religion didn't "make" them do it.  They did it on their own.

If you read a religious book, tome, scripture or whatever and it makes you suddenly want to go and murder hundreds of people, then you're already crazy.  The religion didn't make you crazy.  You're crazy already.

And besides, there are many violent shootings happening in the world (just look at America) that have nothing to do with religion.  How do you explain those?  You really think this world would be at peace if religion went away?

Pretty much everyone can be manipulated to do such things. These people aren't born 'crazy' , they're made that way by their religion and terrorist organisations. Just compare it to the Nazi's, do you really believe that they were all just 'crazy'?

And no, religion isn't the only way to manipulate people into doing these things, but it's by far the most common and effective one.

Like most things, I think it's more complicated than most people want to believe.

There will be those who are drawn towards the violent implementation of their religion simply because they are naturally violent, but they also more than likely believe strongly in the scriptures. It just feels right to be violent and so they 'fit' with that particular interpretation of Islam.

Also, they don't just read a book and kill people. Sharia Law and the scriptures dictate everything in a Muslim's life (if they let it). Right down to which foot to step with when entering the bathroom. It's absolutely cult-like. They are constantly surrounded by these ideas and everyone around them believes the same.

If you listen to an Islamic terrorist, you will see that they are acting perfectly rationally based on their belief system (which is irrational in itself, but they don't see it that way). They are not crazy.



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Terrible news.



JRPGfan said:

Islam the religion of peace.....

Why are there so many crazy muslims in this world? what is it that attracts the crazies? or about it that makes people crazy?

The problem is not inherent to Islam so much as it is inherent to destabilized regions constantly being attacked by foreign powers at the same time as having aggressive and radical groups heavily infused with weapons. There are millions upon millions of homeless and impoverished. militarized gangs have a lot of freedom and power. This sort of stuff has happened in multiple regions under multiple different ideologies including atheism, nationalism, and socialism in the 20th century. Extremism isn’t the symptom of one form of ideology or another, it’s the result from the problems of poverty, instability, and extraordinary amounts of resources given to violent groups. The first emergeance of terrorism occurred at the hands of democratic groups in the 18th century, and it took on much the same face as it does in the 21st century, bombings, guerilla assaults, and beheadings. The first two countries to employ terrorism were the republican democratic radicals of the United States and France; most particularly the revolution used terrorism as the official policy against the first and second estates and their associates.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Flilix said:
Paperboy_J said:

Religion has nothing to do with this.  These motherfuckers are crazy, end of story.  The religion didn't "make" them do it.  They did it on their own.

If you read a religious book, tome, scripture or whatever and it makes you suddenly want to go and murder hundreds of people, then you're already crazy.  The religion didn't make you crazy.  You're crazy already.

And besides, there are many violent shootings happening in the world (just look at America) that have nothing to do with religion.  How do you explain those?  You really think this world would be at peace if religion went away?

Pretty much everyone can be manipulated to do such things. These people aren't born 'crazy' , they're made that way by their religion and terrorist organisations. Just compare it to the Nazi's, do you really believe that they were all just 'crazy'?

And no, religion isn't the only way to manipulate people into doing these things, but it's by far the most common and effective one.

Nah...I'd say poverty, fear and the lack of education are the most effective ways to manipulate people.

Exremist religious propaganda is not effective when the 3 issues above are absent.



305 deaths now.



A bunch of cowards is what they are. what also vexes me is how they're making the Egyptian Goddess Isis name look bad.



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