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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Report: Japanese Third Parties Unconvinced Of The Switch Are Now Scrambling

Rogerioandrade said:
Nautilus said:
Thinking more about it, how out of touch can japanese developers be?Switch is a hybrid, so that means its part handheld, and Nintendo handhelds have always been successful in Japan.It may not have been DS or 3DS numbers, but it would hav been successful in Japan.How the hell they didnt see that?

My thoughts exactly. When I finished reading the article, I just thought .... what the heck? Did they forgot the 3ds? Did they forgot the games they did for the 3ds? The 3ds had very good third party support, specially Jrpgs and indie games, I just couldn´t believe that companies simply forgot about that device. To me, it would feel just natural that companies would move their projects for handheld games to the Switch

Yes, yes they did.

To be fair, the major Japanese publishers and developers have for years shifting their focus from handhelds. A few like Square Enix, Level 5 (mainly their family friendly titles) and a couple that are more mid tier still support the 3DS with the occassional title or have a Vita title which is either later ported or released alongside a PS4 counterpart but their focus have shifted from handhelds, to more mobile games and console games due to the stronger home console markets outside of Japan. I mean compare the DS library and that of the 3DS in terms of volume and you can see how there was both a shift in terms of Western and Japanese third party support.

The Switch also was marketed completely differently from most other big consoles so even if developers were aware of it long before the public, you can see why after the failure of the Wii U and disappointing last years of the Wii that they would be hesistant on the system. It is foolish that they didn't have more then a few ports set up for the initial schedule but business executives are not all geniuses that know their industry or what will work.



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well they can do a few things for 2018 too. Holidays at least!



Switch!!!

Rogerioandrade said:

My thoughts exactly. When I finished reading the article, I just thought .... what the heck? Did they forgot the 3ds? Did they forgot the games they did for the 3ds? The 3ds had very good third party support, specially Jrpgs and indie games, I just couldn´t believe that companies simply forgot about that device. To me, it would feel just natural that companies would move their projects for handheld games to the Switch

Nintendo is still not saying Switch is the sucessor for 3DS

Nintendo also never confirmed that the 3ds would have a sucessor

On the other side, they actualy confirmed that their handheld and home console software development teams were merged, and that was a long time ago. That was a clear indication that they were changing drastically their development direction. Another  clue is that development for the 3ds has slowed a lot, they don´t have as many projects for it as it once had. It doesn´t  make any sense to support two handheld devices at the same time - but that doesn´t mean they would just cancel their 3ds projects that are near conclusion.

Isn´t the next main Pokemon game already announced for the Switch? And also the next main SMT game - a franchise that in the latest  years was exclusive to Nintendo handhelds ? It´s weird to think that those signals are  clear to the average consumer but not  to the developers.... just weird



Just to play safe they should make another two years of PSV games before they switch to the Switch.



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Nautilus said:
Darashiva said:

I'm guessing the main issue the companies had there was that Nintendo was stressing the fact that the Switch wasn't going to replace 3DS or take its place, so a lot of them probably just expected the handheld market to remain mostly with the 3DS, instead of moving onto the Switch, at least initially. This is naturally just speculation, but that could very well have played a part in their thought process.

If thats the case, then they are dumber than forum dwellers.If we already knew that was PR talk by Nintendo by the time the first trailer was revealed(and mind you, many companies close to Nintendo, like Square and Capcom, already knew what the Switch was), then those same companies should have suspected as much.And as Rol said, the same happened to 3DS, so thats probably not the reason.

I remember that some western 3rd-party (smaller ones) talking about they were excited to develop for a handheld, while at the same time Nintendo told everyone that Switch is a home console. So developers got it. I doubt the japanese devs were less smart.



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DonFerrari said:
Nautilus said:

My problem is that the developers werent cautious with the PS4, and that was a home console(Im talking about japan here, since the article is about japanese companies).I get if it were companies that dont traditionally develop for handhelds, but for these companies that do, I dont get why they didnt get in earlier.Nintendo handhelds(since Switch is part handheld) never sold badly, and developers that have games that are more portable centric, like Capcom with MH, are nowhere to be seen(MH XX port doesnt count.That game is a port of an port of an expansion.I lost count of how many times Capcom resold that game).Which, if you ask anyone here, would be a garantee that would sell well on the Switch.

Thats whats mindbogling.The part why its ok to go early to other consoles, or at least offer decent support, but not for the Switch, which would also be a safe bet.

Those companies betted (and mind you, not in the first year) because of WW sales, that PS had conquered for 3 straight gens. And considered that as safe fail plan X1 and PC could/would get ports in case PS4 failed.

Nintendo said it was a console, VGC forum goers said it was a console. Just now people are starting to accept it as HH.

Nautilus said:

If thats the case, then they are dumber than forum dwellers.If we already knew that was PR talk by Nintendo by the time the first trailer was revealed(and mind you, many companies close to Nintendo, like Square and Capcom, already knew what the Switch was), then those same companies should have suspected as much.And as Rol said, the same happened to 3DS, so thats probably not the reason.

You perhaps alreday knew. Nintendo marketed it as a console and there were a plethora of Nintendo fans here that claimed it was a console that you could use portable instead of being a HH that you could connect to the TV.

Those companies aren't privy of Nintendo internal strategy, and Nintendo so far is talking more like this is a console and not the successor of 3DS.

Just to get this out of the way.The Switch is neither a console that can be taken on the go, or a handheld that can be docked.Its a hybrid.Neither of its sides is lesser than its counterpart.People need to understand that part of the appeal of the system is because of this simple fact.

With this out of the way, what Nintendo handheld was ever a failure worldwide?While my problem trully lies with japanese developers regarding the japanese market(and thus Im giving some slack to western developers, since that part of the Switch was never a big appeal to them), its not like WW it would be that much worse.Business are made on taking chances every now and then, its how oportunities are made or found.Im 99% sure that each of those big companies have a staff internally just to calculate and evaluate the risks of such things.And if some forum dwellers have a better sense of how the industry works(PR talks, prospects, how to evaluate the market based on the reception of trailers and presentations, and so forth) then they did something wrong when they hired those guys.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Mnementh said:
Nautilus said:

If thats the case, then they are dumber than forum dwellers.If we already knew that was PR talk by Nintendo by the time the first trailer was revealed(and mind you, many companies close to Nintendo, like Square and Capcom, already knew what the Switch was), then those same companies should have suspected as much.And as Rol said, the same happened to 3DS, so thats probably not the reason.

I remember that some western 3rd-party (smaller ones) talking about they were excited to develop for a handheld, while at the same time Nintendo told everyone that Switch is a home console. So developers got it. I doubt the japanese devs were less smart.

Well, the Switch is a hybrid, but I understood what you mean.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Nautilus said:
DonFerrari said:

Those companies betted (and mind you, not in the first year) because of WW sales, that PS had conquered for 3 straight gens. And considered that as safe fail plan X1 and PC could/would get ports in case PS4 failed.

Nintendo said it was a console, VGC forum goers said it was a console. Just now people are starting to accept it as HH.

You perhaps alreday knew. Nintendo marketed it as a console and there were a plethora of Nintendo fans here that claimed it was a console that you could use portable instead of being a HH that you could connect to the TV.

Those companies aren't privy of Nintendo internal strategy, and Nintendo so far is talking more like this is a console and not the successor of 3DS.

Just to get this out of the way.The Switch is neither a console that can be taken on the go, or a handheld that can be docked.Its a hybrid.Neither of its sides is lesser than its counterpart.People need to understand that part of the appeal of the system is because of this simple fact.

With this out of the way, what Nintendo handheld was ever a failure worldwide?While my problem trully lies with japanese developers regarding the japanese market(and thus Im giving some slack to western developers, since that part of the Switch was never a big appeal to them), its not like WW it would be that much worse.Business are made on taking chances every now and then, its how oportunities are made or found.Im 99% sure that each of those big companies have a staff internally just to calculate and evaluate the risks of such things.And if some forum dwellers have a better sense of how the industry works(PR talks, prospects, how to evaluate the market based on the reception of trailers and presentations, and so forth) then they did something wrong when they hired those guys.

Unless customers use it 50/50 it will have a preference, same with the game type.

And do you want to take it away now? So until it's convenient to say one or the other in a thread let's keep it. When showing the convenient choosing then we clarify?

Yes they can calculate and decide to act based on the risk... but here Nintendo fanbase is complaining they didn't take the risk.

Forum dwellers were also certain WiiU would be sucessfull... it isn't because Switch got it right that the forum dwellers were right or done a good analysis... funny enough you first deny it is more of a HH, but then make your analysis as if it was.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Nautilus said:
DonFerrari said:

Those companies betted (and mind you, not in the first year) because of WW sales, that PS had conquered for 3 straight gens. And considered that as safe fail plan X1 and PC could/would get ports in case PS4 failed.

Nintendo said it was a console, VGC forum goers said it was a console. Just now people are starting to accept it as HH.

You perhaps alreday knew. Nintendo marketed it as a console and there were a plethora of Nintendo fans here that claimed it was a console that you could use portable instead of being a HH that you could connect to the TV.

Those companies aren't privy of Nintendo internal strategy, and Nintendo so far is talking more like this is a console and not the successor of 3DS.

Just to get this out of the way.The Switch is neither a console that can be taken on the go, or a handheld that can be docked.Its a hybrid.Neither of its sides is lesser than its counterpart.People need to understand that part of the appeal of the system is because of this simple fact.

With this out of the way, what Nintendo handheld was ever a failure worldwide?While my problem trully lies with japanese developers regarding the japanese market(and thus Im giving some slack to western developers, since that part of the Switch was never a big appeal to them), its not like WW it would be that much worse.Business are made on taking chances every now and then, its how oportunities are made or found.Im 99% sure that each of those big companies have a staff internally just to calculate and evaluate the risks of such things.And if some forum dwellers have a better sense of how the industry works(PR talks, prospects, how to evaluate the market based on the reception of trailers and presentations, and so forth) then they did something wrong when they hired those guys.

Unless customers use it 50/50 it will have a preference, same with the game type.

And do you want to take it away now? So until it's convenient to say one or the other in a thread let's keep it. When showing the convenient choosing then we clarify?

Yes they can calculate and decide to act based on the risk... but here Nintendo fanbase is complaining they didn't take the risk.

Forum dwellers were also certain WiiU would be sucessfull... it isn't because Switch got it right that the forum dwellers were right or done a good analysis... funny enough you first deny it is more of a HH, but then make your analysis as if it was.

 

Please list the HH part features and the Console features and show it is 50/50 as well... because from what I look at it the only 2 things it have from console is taking the joycons to make a controler (which even was already possible for cellphones) and liking it to the tv, which was also done with PSVita either using cable, PS4 or PSTV. So it is through and through a handheld that can be connected to the TV using a dock.

 

Size, power, battery, screen -> HH



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Nautilus said:

Just to get this out of the way.The Switch is neither a console that can be taken on the go, or a handheld that can be docked.Its a hybrid.Neither of its sides is lesser than its counterpart.People need to understand that part of the appeal of the system is because of this simple fact.

With this out of the way, what Nintendo handheld was ever a failure worldwide?While my problem trully lies with japanese developers regarding the japanese market(and thus Im giving some slack to western developers, since that part of the Switch was never a big appeal to them), its not like WW it would be that much worse.Business are made on taking chances every now and then, its how oportunities are made or found.Im 99% sure that each of those big companies have a staff internally just to calculate and evaluate the risks of such things.And if some forum dwellers have a better sense of how the industry works(PR talks, prospects, how to evaluate the market based on the reception of trailers and presentations, and so forth) then they did something wrong when they hired those guys.

Unless customers use it 50/50 it will have a preference, same with the game type.

And do you want to take it away now? So until it's convenient to say one or the other in a thread let's keep it. When showing the convenient choosing then we clarify?

Yes they can calculate and decide to act based on the risk... but here Nintendo fanbase is complaining they didn't take the risk.

Forum dwellers were also certain WiiU would be sucessfull... it isn't because Switch got it right that the forum dwellers were right or done a good analysis... funny enough you first deny it is more of a HH, but then make your analysis as if it was.

There are always going to be people that will use it either exclusively as a handheld or exclusively as a console.It dosent mean its not a hybrid.The functionallity is important here, not how a percentage of the users use it.

And I have always said it was a hybrid, ever since its reveal.If you feel like it, just go back to my old posts to check it.What I said about being a handheld, and at that I said being part handheld, is that the Japanese people would see it more as a portable system than a home console, and thus it could work as a handheld for them and have the same appeal as handhelds always had.THAT is the beauty of being a hybrid system.The system can adapt itself to the markets needs.Im not moving goalposts or anything.

People that said that the Wii U would succeed were not doing any analysis at all.They were just going off the hype of the last generation, and thought that the same succeess would repeat, without analysing any of the situations surrounding the new system.By forum dwellers I meant, and I thought you understood, the ones that made predictions based on the conditions surrounding the system, and the ones that actually took the time to understand the situation Nintendo was in, rather than "Wii sold 100 millions?Then the Wii U will sell 60 millions at least on name alone".

Edit:God, are there still people like you that dont understand what the Switch is?*sigh*.The Vita was no hybrid, because not only it didnt come with that level of functionality out of the box(so you have to buy the PS Vita separetely to make it work on the TV), but also that it was poorly implemented.

And just because the Switch can function as a handheld, it doesnt mean it cant work as a home console.The controller can function as a standard home controller(there is even the option to get a pro controller), you can enjoy the Switch to the fullest without ever taking it away from the dock.For the handheld side, you can take it anywhere and not depend on a TV to play the games.Thus, a hybrid.

And dont come to me with this 50/50 nonsense.Thats something thats not quantifiable and you know it.If you go by that route for your argumentation, its just going to be an endless back and forth.

Last edited by Nautilus - on 06 November 2017

My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1