Then let them have a referendum. You can't put the blame of them on them. They weren't allowed to have one. How do you have a referendum when it's illegal to make one? Nice logic bud. Great democracy there.

I know far more about history than you ever will. And no they wouldn't. You can't get past your ridicule exemple because you don't respect what is the will of the people and think everyone wants to be separated from everyone else. You don't get to decide what is best for other people. There are cultural and linguist reasons.

You don't know better. You are just a trying to bully the states on spain that want to be free. Like it ALWAYS was. We expect that from castellians. It's what they ALWAYS did.

I don't know. A referendum wasn't allowed.

Apparantly a very "democratic" constitution doesn't allow them to have one.

And apparently declaring independence because a 38% of Catalans voted yes on an ilegal referendum where is impossible to know if the numbers are real and some people voted even 4 times is very democratic.

Oh and that Constitution you talk about was approved by 90% of Catalans, in fact there wasn't any other place of Spain where the approval was as high as there

Because and I already said that and therefore won't get into the details of it again, the referendum is illegal because breaking up a country nowadays makes NO SENSE and is not a right. What you say is as rash as saying people are not free to have a referendum on making murder legal so the country is not a democracy cause only the people can decide blah blah blah...

If you understand history, politics and have some common sense you wouldn't say what you are saying so until you demonstrate some common sense I'll continue thinking you don't know much about history.

You don't get to decide, thanks goodness and you don't respect the will of the Spanish people so thanks goodness you have no power in these matters other than complaining in ignorance.

They were pushed into it by the central governmant and you know it. They were gonna remove their powers (and imprison and or kill the movement leaders).

No, the breaking of the country as you put it is irrelevant. This isn't about the rest of spain (yet) it's about catalunia. It's illegal because imperialists made it so. If every independence movement went through the proper channel, most would have not suceeded.

You are ridiculous in  your logic. Yeah, freedom of expression is equal to murder. Of course it is. /rolleyes

I understand history better than you do. What you are saying is what every country said to prevent their people from making their own decisions about their future. Simply put, you are in an empirialist mindset, because it's all you've ever known. And you dare to talk to me about history. Very funny.

Of course, i have no power, i'm not spanish. But when my people did, just like the dutch and the beligans, we showed you who gets to decide issues of freedom. I don't expect the core of an imperialist nation to know anything about it.

Come at us buddy. Portugal, NL and Belgium all secceeded illegally. Come get us.

You're talking BS.

First it's not beligans (unless you mean some country I've never heard of) it's Belgians and I should know cause I am Belgian.

Second, by your standards pretty much every nation in the world is imperialistic because pretty much every nation has a history of invading other countries in one way or another, even the formation of countries stem from invading small kingdoms and uniting them under one nation. If you knew anything about history you'd know this, but you obviously don't, /roll eyes

And third, another thing you obviously don't understand is that pretty much EVERY country would not accept to be broken up just because a group of ignorant nationalists decide that their neck of the woods should be independent. Even YOUR country would not accept part of it just leaving. You don't believe me? Stand up and rise against the rest of your country, demand independence of your city or province and see if you're just going to get it. If you do then you can defend your point at least on principle if not on common sense but if you don't as I know is the case, "you just know nothing Jon Snow".

Thanks grammar police.

You are so simplistic is hurts. My standards say: People have a right to decide their future. That is what the old kingdoms didn't have. We are now in democracy, not in monarchy nor in the middle ages (except for some token that keep their kings and queens to look lame in the pink magazines).

Ignorant nationalists? Country be broken up? This is you still in the wrong mindset. You DON'T GET TO DECIDE FOR THEM! It is not one of your rights!

See, you talk about me, but you actually don't know much do you? There is an island that keeps toying with the idea of independance in Portugal. You know what we say? Go ahead! Good riddance!

Forcing people to do what you want is NEVER a good idea. It will NEVER work. And wether it's a majority or minority remains to be seen. As the central power refuses to give a voice to the people. And that's that.

Like, who the eff cares about your stupid country losing some areas when their people hate each other? What is the point of forcing others to live with you? It's like this never happened is Spain before. Guess what? It is gonna happen again and again and again. Because Spain is not a union. The more you force people to do what they don't want, the more they will resent you.

They were going to remove their powers because they were going to declare independence, pretty simple.

Kill their leaders? What? You are very out of reality here, I guess you are also one of those paranoic Portuguese that believes Spain is still waiting for the right moment to conquer your country despite the fact that Spain hasn't give a fuck about it for centuries. Get the hate out of your eyes because is blinding you, PP is a horrible politic party but Spain is mostly an open, democratic and free country (rated 94/100 in civil and political rights by Freedom House), nobody is gonna get killed by the government just for that.

Good luck trying to reason with that guy. I tried in vain...

So just sit back and be entertained by his contradictions. Like when he says that no one can decide what people should do but he keeps deciding in every one of his posts about how Spain should be broken up just cause he wants to.

In the end the important thing is that Spain is a democratic land where people are free to come and go as they please and have their opinions and it's a EU country and those ignorant separatists will not succeed in destroying the country. That's what matters