Forums - Politics Discussion - HAHA - Hypocrite Trump Sits Through Military Flag Ceremony After Criticizing Others For Flag Disrespect

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vivster said:
Azuren said:
If you think it's just "showing respect to a piece of fabric", you'd be wrong. No one cares about the fabric of the flag, they care about what it represents. It represents our country, our personal liberties, and the men and women who die defending those liberties.

And if someone thinks they're being disrespected just because someone is protesting the country they're full of themselves. I mean how much of an egomaniac do you have to be to feel offended when someone protests a something that's wrong in this country. If anything people should be honored that more people are trying to fight to make the country a better place.

Because those not affected by the social injustice don't think it exists.  To them, the protests are just crying over nothing.  And it's further exacerbated by the fact that those unaffected are by association responsible for the injustice and they don't want to hear that.

To sum up, half the country doesn't give a damn enough to listen to the plights of the other half.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

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He's the biggest fucking hypocrite of all time, and that trait more than anything sickens me. Fucking moron.



SpokenTruth said:
vivster said:

And if someone thinks they're being disrespected just because someone is protesting the country they're full of themselves. I mean how much of an egomaniac do you have to be to feel offended when someone protests a something that's wrong in this country. If anything people should be honored that more people are trying to fight to make the country a better place.

Because those not affected by the social injustice don't think it exists.  To them, the protests are just crying over nothing.  And it's further exacerbated by the fact that those unaffected are by association responsible for the injustice and they don't want to hear that.

To sum up, half the country doesn't give a damn enough to listen to the plights of the other half.

Yeah but if they actually wanted to incite change I feel like they wouldn't do it in such a devisive way. No good has come of the kneeling during the national anthem, it's created more racial tension in America and more division between the politically charged sides. I'd be willing to bet half the people that support the right to kneel don't actually care about what it represents, they just enjoy making the other side (mainly people with conservative values in this case) butthurt. It's the same thing as trolling on the Internet. When the Cowboys kneeled before the National Anthem I saw Republicans respond to it a lot more positively.

You could argue that devisive protests like these are what it takes to get people talking about the issue at hand but I whole-heartedly disagree. No one's talking about injustice to African-Americans, they're only talking about the constitutionality of kneeling during the National Anthem and what the flag actually represents. Meanwhile the people who argue for this think they're doing a good thing and receiving some sort of moral high ground when in reality they're doing absolutely nothing and injustice to African-Americans in America still remains the same. If these NFL players actually cared about what they're kneeling for they would find a different way to go about it that would get all Americans on board.



A7XRayDog247 said:
SpokenTruth said:

Because those not affected by the social injustice don't think it exists.  To them, the protests are just crying over nothing.  And it's further exacerbated by the fact that those unaffected are by association responsible for the injustice and they don't want to hear that.

To sum up, half the country doesn't give a damn enough to listen to the plights of the other half.

Yeah but if they actually wanted to incite change I feel like they wouldn't do it in such a devisive way. No good has come of the kneeling during the national anthem, it's created more racial tension in America and more division between the politically charged sides. I'd be willing to bet half the people that support the right to kneel don't actually care about what it represents, they just enjoy making the other side (mainly people with conservative values in this case) butthurt. It's the same thing as trolling on the Internet. When the Cowboys kneeled before the National Anthem I saw Republicans respond to it a lot more positively.

You could argue that devisive protests like these are what it takes to get people talking about the issue at hand but I whole-heartedly disagree. No one's talking about injustice to African-Americans, they're only talking about the constitutionality of kneeling during the National Anthem and what the flag actually represents. Meanwhile the people who argue for this think they're doing a good thing and receiving some sort of moral high ground when in reality they're doing absolutely nothing and injustice to African-Americans in America still remains the same. If these NFL players actually cared about what they're kneeling for they would find a different way to go about it that would get all Americans on board.

Those affected by the injustices have protested just about every way you can.  Nobody listened.  Worse, again, those not affected by the injustices don't believ they exist.  That means no matter how they protest, they won't care.

Sit, stand, kneel, hands up, silent, loud, in the streets, off the streets.....all you get back from the other side is, "No, don't protest like that!"



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Hiku said:

He also said John McCain is not a war hero because he was captured. For those who don't know, McCain was offered to be released but refused to leave until all of his fellow soldiers were released as well.

Not disrespecting the military at all. But the people kneeling at the NFL? Totally are.

But yeah, the list of things he's criticized others for, and now does himself, is long.

Actually people who are kneeling are not disrespecting the Military.  There is nothing in the articles that say you have to stan, just like there are nothing that says you have to put your hand over your heart.  These are more traditions than anything else.  I am sure most people do not even know why some players kneel instead of just sitting on the bench.

As for Trump, I would not say he is a hypocrite, instead like a lot of things he does or does not do, he just plain ignorant.  I am sure when they started to play retreat, he had no clue what it means.  When he saw all the service men and women stand, face the flag and either salute or put their hands over their heart, he still did not understand what was going on just from his comments.  I am also sure that once he did understand he neither cared or dismiissed it as something he doesn't have to respect.



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SpokenTruth said:
A7XRayDog247 said:

Yeah but if they actually wanted to incite change I feel like they wouldn't do it in such a devisive way. No good has come of the kneeling during the national anthem, it's created more racial tension in America and more division between the politically charged sides. I'd be willing to bet half the people that support the right to kneel don't actually care about what it represents, they just enjoy making the other side (mainly people with conservative values in this case) butthurt. It's the same thing as trolling on the Internet. When the Cowboys kneeled before the National Anthem I saw Republicans respond to it a lot more positively.

You could argue that devisive protests like these are what it takes to get people talking about the issue at hand but I whole-heartedly disagree. No one's talking about injustice to African-Americans, they're only talking about the constitutionality of kneeling during the National Anthem and what the flag actually represents. Meanwhile the people who argue for this think they're doing a good thing and receiving some sort of moral high ground when in reality they're doing absolutely nothing and injustice to African-Americans in America still remains the same. If these NFL players actually cared about what they're kneeling for they would find a different way to go about it that would get all Americans on board.

Those affected by the injustices have protested just about every way you can.  Nobody listened.  Worse, again, those not affected by the injustices don't believ they exist.  That means no matter how they protest, they won't care.

Sit, stand, kneel, hands up, silent, loud, in the streets, off the streets.....all you get back from the other side is, "No, don't protest like that!"

Some people believe that black people only just recently have protested the injustice that we see now with our police.  This stuff has been happening for decades and black people have spoken out about it many times.  During those decades, people either ignored it, said it doesn't exist, stated that if they did not do any wrong they had nothing to worry about etc.  The only difference today than in the past is the advent of the camera phone.  Before it was just the person word over the police and we know how that fared.  Even when there is video proof, of incidents you still have people looking for even a shred of something to disprove it. 

What brought this protest on is not that there are bad cops because there is bad people no matter what industry they work for.  Its that there is a system where bad cops are protected, get paid leave and able to come back to their job after killing someone of color.  Now that there is video proof of incidents and the people still get away with it causes people to protest in a way to get everyone attention whether you care or not.

Next we have the Kneeling which is in no way disrespecting anything because people have taken a knee to the flag in many circumstances.  From the military when they kneel for a fallen brother or when they kneel when handing the flag to the surviving member of the family.  Kneeling has always represented in the US as Praying to the GOD this country was founded on whether you believe or do not. Instead suddenly because the people that are kneeling are people of color, it now represent disrespect even though there is no precedent.  People who have a totally different agenda then say, well you are kneeling during the anthem so you are protesting the flag.  The people who are kneeling saying we are not protesting the flag but kneeling for a future where justice for all people are respected.

I am pretty positive if Tom Brady took knee and said he is taking a knee so that Veterans are more respected and receive equal heathcare for their service, then the people who says it is disrespectful would have a totally different opinion.  Its not the kneeling that is divisive it’s the people that is doing it.



SpokenTruth said:
vivster said:

And if someone thinks they're being disrespected just because someone is protesting the country they're full of themselves. I mean how much of an egomaniac do you have to be to feel offended when someone protests a something that's wrong in this country. If anything people should be honored that more people are trying to fight to make the country a better place.

Because those not affected by the social injustice don't think it exists.  To them, the protests are just crying over nothing.  And it's further exacerbated by the fact that those unaffected are by association responsible for the injustice and they don't want to hear that.

To sum up, half the country doesn't give a damn enough to listen to the plights of the other half.

I think that's the point of the protest. By kneeling for the flag, it is forcing those who want to pretend the injustice isn't happening to take notice. Their heroes are doing it afterall.

The big problem is Trump, who is trying to convolute the message by making their protest appear to be about anti-Americanism because they won't stand for the flag during a sports games. Then he goes and sits down during a government flag ceremony because he can't be bothered to stand. He needs to be called out on his hypocrisy, exposing the poverty of his views.

The players are standing in solidarity with those of far less fortunate social standing who have suffered wrongful death and persecution at the hands of the US government law officers. A lot of people look up to these players as heroes across the US, they're getting noticed.

 

I'm going to stop talking now, and let you guys discuss it. Honestly, I don't know any American sports players. I only know that this protest has made waves in international news. It's an interesting piece of social change in progress of a just society in the US, which was beginning to seem fairly scary in recent times. That's why it caught my interest. The plight of black people in the US is one of the most interesting in the modern world, IMO.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

You know what's amazing to me......

All these players protesting....lets forget for a second that they're not actually protesting the flag or the anthem, as they constantly have to explain to everyone. Lets put aside what the actual issue is (god knows the narrative has sadly been very effectively shifted). It's absolutely mindblowing to me, that none of these guys, when faced with the accusation that they're supposedly being disrespectful, come back with the fact that kneeling has been nothing but a sign of respect and obedience for like all of human history. I mean seriously lol.....the most powerful men on earth for thousands of years wanted nothing more than to see you kneel, but now all of a sudden it's a sign of disrespect? Is this real life?



Sitting seems like the thing to do in that situation, considering they've set up chairs and all, and there probably isn't a convention established via practice, unlike in sports events. As much as I dislike Trump, this isn't hypocrisy. It seems like an accidental violation of the code of conduct, but it certainly doesn't seem like hypocrisy to me. As always, context is the key.



Machiavellian said:
SpokenTruth said:

Those affected by the injustices have protested just about every way you can.  Nobody listened.  Worse, again, those not affected by the injustices don't believ they exist.  That means no matter how they protest, they won't care.

Sit, stand, kneel, hands up, silent, loud, in the streets, off the streets.....all you get back from the other side is, "No, don't protest like that!"

Some people believe that black people only just recently have protested the injustice that we see now with our police.  This stuff has been happening for decades and black people have spoken out about it many times.  During those decades, people either ignored it, said it doesn't exist, stated that if they did not do any wrong they had nothing to worry about etc.  The only difference today than in the past is the advent of the camera phone.  Before it was just the person word over the police and we know how that fared.  Even when there is video proof, of incidents you still have people looking for even a shred of something to disprove it. 

What brought this protest on is not that there are bad cops because there is bad people no matter what industry they work for.  Its that there is a system where bad cops are protected, get paid leave and able to come back to their job after killing someone of color.  Now that there is video proof of incidents and the people still get away with it causes people to protest in a way to get everyone attention whether you care or not.

Next we have the Kneeling which is in no way disrespecting anything because people have taken a knee to the flag in many circumstances.  From the military when they knee for a fallen brother or when they knee when handing the flag to the surviving member of the family.  Kneeling has always represented in the US as Praying to the GOD this country was founded in whether you believe or do not. Instead suddenly because the people that are kneeling are people of color, it now represent disrespect even though there is no precedent.  People who have a totally different agenda then say, well you are kneeling during the anthem so you are protesting the flag.  The people who are kneeling saying we are not protesting the flag but kneeling for a future where injustice for all people are respected.

I am pretty positive if Tom Brady took and knee and said he is taking a knee so that Veterans are more respected and receive equal heathcare for their service, then the people who says it is disrespectful would have a totally different opinion.  Its not the kneeling that is divisive it’s the people that is doing it.

One more for the people in the back.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."