If you rather have 1/4 of the car list, no Dymanic Weather or days and nights for an aminated pit crew, go for it. GTS is perfect for you.

we sink to these baby jabs at a game 

A problem with the laser scanning thing is, no matter how accurately they scan the track, that data has to be massively paired back and simplified in order to keep the overall geometry as low as possible, which involves flattening a lot of it and keeping only key features such as elevation, angle and pitch, while they do also scan the paint, it's used only for getting the markings right, they don't actually do friction testing on each portion of track and paint, and laser measurements, even if done perfectly and not simplified at all, would only give you the surface data, not the friction data, and the friction data is something that gives a track it's soul, because it evolves with the track and it's use.

Indeed the surface of the track also evolves with it, as heavy use means sections need to be resurfaced and that resurfacing causes large patches of frictional change.

There isn't a process, yet, that can accurately replicate a track down to even a checkerboarding of friction zones.

For a real track, in a real car, approaching it professionally, every single method of input gets processed fluidly, vibration and tension of the wheel, note of the engine, jerkiness of gear shifts, feedback from the track through the accelerator, feedback from the brake pads, rotors and calipers through the brake pedal, a near sixth sense of the grippiness of all four wheels, all data from gauges and clusters, even the sound of the chassis popping and clicking, right down to the whine of the transmission as you pull through the gears, it's visceral and raw, something no racing sim has come close to replicating, and no wheel manufacturer has yet bothered to do any sort of feedback in the gear shifter or pedals, theyre just dead and everything depends entirely on judder in the steering.

Are we talking about Pit Stops vs Content or quality of simulation? I can safetly say FM7 is very good in the quality of simulation catagory. And its a very polished racer with unriviled content this gen so far. If you rather have 1/4 of the car list, no Dymanic Weather or days and nights for an aminated pit crew, go for it. GTS is perfect for you.

Yes i am not a fan of Sim racers. I am here in this thread because i find it rather immunising and a nice jab at a good game.

Yep, let's say it is simply too much information to have a very precise 3D model of the track surface in each detail. But grip mapping they do something a little more generic with the paint and the shoulders, dry and wet, but it is possibly generic without considering how it varies through the track.

Also I don't remember they making much difference between the dirty side, clean and rubbered of the track.

On the sixth sense, Senna was famous for basically seeming to extract more grip than existed in the track, doing impossible corner at high speed.

Errr a simulation game is just as good as it simulation is, and if you don't like or value the simulation than your analysis is pretty much useless.

I rather hear from NATO than from someone that likes arcade racing that will complain about lack of sense of speed or other things that are more on the unreal side.

The point you changed the topic from Forza has no Pit Crews 

to Qaulity of Simulation is very interesting. 

Well no, because the threads about a trailer clearly showing a fully featured pit sequence then having nothing of the sort, for it to be right at home either game would need to have shown dramatic crash sequences while showing an "in game footage" overlay, then ship with no crash simulation at all.

Crash simulation is a bumper cars joke in both games.

GTS: https://youtu.be/GVr-Qsrj-VQ?t=55
FM7: https://youtu.be/5PgqM28wdTQ?t=538

Then destruction derby 1 on the PS1 - https://youtu.be/cc9Td6Gm8is?t=42

For a long time Forza was way ahead in terms of crash physics, but both Forza and GT seem to have plateau'd at an awkward, inaccurate model that is both unrealistic and lacking in any real purpose.

I say that as someone that races competitively in the real world once a month, at Tsukuba, Fuji speedway and Suzuka. I still hope that some day they'll focus more effort into that area of the simulation but they never seem to, it's all resolution this, car count that, lighting this, photo mode that.

Meh.

Im sure someone can provide examples of Forza having unsim aspects, that's fine. They all do.

Thats your choice. I couldnt care less. 

The point you changed the topic from Forza has no Pit Crews to Qaulity of Simulation is very interesting. So all i am saying which is related to this Topic is that if you and Nato prefer Pit Crews as a must have over the bulk of the Content Forza has than thats your opinions and go for it.  

You made a lengthy reply about how silly it is to critique physics... in a sim racer. Yet you didn't seem to mind when someone was talking about how great of a simulation GT is. 

Funny thing is that when GT5 released with a lot more content then lets say FM5 and as a sim was better, guess who got the better reviews?

Reviews for racing sim is one of the ones I wouldn't trust at all.

And on playstation official forum there were massive negative comments over the lack of SP campaign.

This is a thread about Forza, first and foremost.

Despite that, I made a lengthly post saying the simulation in both is trash, and it is, the fact that I linked to destruction derby for having better crash physics, on the PS1 should make that view clear.

I then made an even longer post going on to how no game gets it right because they approach the physics from almost purely a car motion perspective and not environment based, which makes it trash too.

Since you're leaving the thread, don't forget to take your agenda with you.

GT was never a sim and as for which game was better well thats debatable.   Also when GT5 release with more cars, most were just ported over from the previous version so they looked much worse then the new content.  I also believed its online was broken as well and it's campaign was sub par.  So yes, content alone doesn't make a game and the same is for Forza 7.  

GT was never a sim and as for which game was better well thats debatable.   Also when GT5 release with more cars, most were just ported over from the previous version so they looked much worse then the new content.  I also believed its online was broken as well and it's campaign was sub par.  So yes, content alone doesn't make a game and the same is for Forza 7.