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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Gran Turismo Sport vs Forza Motorsport 7 comparison with the Corvette C7

Mr Puggsly on 05 October 2017
thismeintiel said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I agree the lighting looks better in GT, but Forza 7's recording is just bad. The colors in the video are washed out but I think you know that.

I don't think anybody is arguing Forza has the best visuals of all racing games, more importantly has very polished visuals, locked at 60 fps, and offers a ton of content. Even if GT Sport looks better, its appears to be slim on content and has been in development for a long time.

Its funny you mention the Amazon reviews and completely ignore the Metacritic. That's usually a sign somebody has an agenda.

Or maybe I care about the opinion of other gamers over "professional" reviewers?

And how do we know the recording is bad? Maybe you are the one with the agenda.  

Youre going with the Amazon user reviews because it pushes your agenda. If the meta score was low you would go with that. Its obvious.

I've played Forza 7 and DF has done videos. Maybe you should watch them, the video is clearly bad.



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Peh on 05 October 2017
SvennoJ said:
Peh said:

Thanks for the reply. But as far as I read, 4K 60 hz HDR 10 Bit RGB at chroma 4:4:4 are not possible with the current HDMI 2.0/a/b, because that exceeds the bandwidth of 18 Gbps. That's what current Premium HDMI cables are capable of. 

On my PC/TV settings I can only go for YUV 4:2:2 10 Bit 4K at 60 hz or YUV 4:4:4 / RGB at 8 bit 4k 60 hz. 

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/980356/4k-resolution-at-60p-and-10-bit-in-tv-help/

That's why I am curious at how the consoles are doing it. Or am I missing something?

HDMI 2.1 on the other hand doubles the bandwidth and newer HDMI cables are on the way for supporting that bandwidth. 

On an additional note. Windows 10 CU only enables HDR on YUF 4:2:2 10 bit. I could use HDR on 8 bit before win 10 CU on Resident Evil 7. Now it looks like shit. Same goes for Forza 7 on PC in HDR. 

4K at 60hz 10 bit is 'only' 13.9 Gbps, within the max 14.4 Gbps max video bandwidth of an 18 Gbps cable. 3840x2160x60x30 / (1024x1024x1024)
I can't find any hard info on actual support though, nor do my tv or the ps4 pro offer any info on the bit depth, color space used or chroma compression. Just 2160p RGB all frequencies upto 60hz supported with HDR. I guess I'll need to find/make some test patterns to check for chroma subsampling and bit gradients.

HZD looks great though, but with nothing to compare, who knows what I'm looking at.

I've found a site which does the calculation and explanation, bit it is in german.

 

https://www.professional-system.de/thema/4k/

 

For 8bit 60hz he calculates 16.7Gbps

and for 10 bit 60hz it is 20.4 Gbps. This exceeds the 18 gbps for the hdmi 2.0 port.

 

On different forums they also conclude the same, that it can't run on 10 bit 4k 60hz and chroma 4:4:4. This also explains why I cannot choose this setting on my PC.

 

Edit: Found a calculator

 

http://www.extron.de/product/videotools.aspx

 

This one displays even 22.28 Gbps.

 

So, the PS4 Pro can't do HDR10 in RGB / YUV 4:4:4. In fact, none can do via HDMI 2.0a/b.

 

First console with HDMI 2.1 will be Xbox One X and fully support it. 

 

Hm...fuck....so, I need a Graphics card with hdmi 2.1 and a new TV.....wasted over 2000€....



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Hynad on 05 October 2017
Errorist76 said:
Jigsawx1 said:

Nice Video this is 95% of how it looks on my XOne Elite and a 1080p tv

He really has to think that forza is stealing the show if he trys to look a game worse then the other....... xD

You can deny it as much as our want but just take a look at the X1X video in 4K below. The game looks much blander than this on most tracks. They even downgraded some textures and lighting on this, probably to be able to implement those weather effects.

You are both among the last persons here someone should go to for an impartial view on both games.



SvennoJ on 05 October 2017
Peh said:
SvennoJ said:

4K at 60hz 10 bit is 'only' 13.9 Gbps, within the max 14.4 Gbps max video bandwidth of an 18 Gbps cable. 3840x2160x60x30 / (1024x1024x1024)
I can't find any hard info on actual support though, nor do my tv or the ps4 pro offer any info on the bit depth, color space used or chroma compression. Just 2160p RGB all frequencies upto 60hz supported with HDR. I guess I'll need to find/make some test patterns to check for chroma subsampling and bit gradients.

HZD looks great though, but with nothing to compare, who knows what I'm looking at.

I've found a site which does the calculation and explanation, bit it is in german.

 

https://www.professional-system.de/thema/4k/

 

For 8bit 60hz he calculates 16.7gbps

and for 10 bit 60hz it is 20.4 gbps. This exceeds the 18 gbps for the hdmi 2.0 port.

 

On different forums they also conclude the same, that it can't run on 10 bit 4k 60hz and chroma 4:4:4. This also explains why I cannot choose this setting on my PC.

 

Well at least it passes the 4:4:4 test http://vah.dy.fi/testcard/3840x2160.png
No chroma subsampling anomalies at 2160p60 mode with that test image.

Yet the bit depth isn't that easy to test as I have no picture editor that supports 10 bit files. No way to check if it's actually 10 bit to start with. This image looks absolutely smooth via ps4 pro on my tv http://www.abload.de/img/16-bitetck4.png, looks dithered in my browser on my laptop.

Then ofcourse what happens when HDR switches on. HDR is basically just meta data, same 10 bits is used regardless, so it shouldn't have any effect on the actual bandwidth.


Not sure how that site calculates it as 3840x2160x60x24 / (1024x1024x1024) is 11.1 Gbps, not 16.7 Gbps
They start with a massive overhead of 4.176 × 2.222 per frame to get to 16.7 Gbps for 8 bit 4:4:4 60hz, yet 4:4:4 works at 2160p 60hz I just confirmed, while 16.7 Gbps exceeds the 14.4 Gbps max video bandwidth (sound needs to go through that 18 Gbps as well) That site must be wrong?

Anyway the official site says only 4:2:0 is supported for 10 bit 4K 60hz
https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/hdmi_2_0_faq.aspx#146

So yeah I guess it must use chroma subsampling at 10 bit. So basically you can choose between 4x the color depth for 1/4 of the pixels (4:2:0), or stick to 8 bit and have color info for every pixel :/ I guess 10 bit 4:2:0 makes more sense with checkerboard rendering.



Errorist76 on 05 October 2017
Mr Puggsly said:
thismeintiel said:

Or maybe I care about the opinion of other gamers over "professional" reviewers?

And how do we know the recording is bad? Maybe you are the one with the agenda.  

Youre going with the Amazon user reviews because it pushes your agenda. If the meta score was low you would go with that. Its obvious.

I've played Forza 7 and DF has done videos. Maybe you should watch them, the video is clearly bad.

You just seem to willingly overlook the X1X footage I just posted which looks exactly like that PC footage in the video.



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SecondWar on 05 October 2017
thismeintiel said:
Really, this game has had little hype that I have seen. And the reception for it doesn't seem that great, either. It just came out, but has already slipped to #90 on Amazon and may be dropping out of the Top 100.

I don't think the fact that its come straight after Horizon 3 helped. I still play that and tried the Motorsport 7 beta and was bored beyond belief. I will try the full game at some point so hopefully that first impression doesn't last. I did get slated for saying this a few months ago, but these type of post release comments make me feel like the game a kinda tech demo for new hardware - in this case the Xbox One X. Forza 5, the only other Forza game to get a bad rep, had a similar problem as an Xbox One launch title.

A more interesting footage comparison would be between the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X, as that is what they've been built primarily for.



VAMatt on 05 October 2017

I think this is likely caused, at least in part, by bad video. I haven't played Forza 7, but for 6 looks better than this in general.

On the other hand, I watch the video on my phone. So what the hell do I really know?



VAMatt on 05 October 2017

Actually, the cars look pretty significantly different. It would be interesting to see which one looks closer to the real thing.



couchmonkey on 05 October 2017

I vote GT, but really, who cares how they look, which is more fun to play?

I haven't actually played a GT game (maybe time to try it out), but I've always enjoyed Forza's "novelty" car options like SUVs, Prius, PT Cruiser, Smart Car, etc. which are bad choices for racing, but that's what makes them fun. GT seems to be too hardcore too offer stuff like that.



Dallinor on 05 October 2017
RolStoppable said:
Forza looks more realistic and has additional details on the race track.

Yes, I noticed that GT also notably lacks a helicopter in the background.