HintHRO said:
Me |
That's an odd position to hold. Juse because something is Switch exclusive doesn't mean you have to like it. 1-2 Switch looks like crap hence why I dislike it, exclusivity be damned.
You're welcome.
Roar_Of_War said:
No significant benefit eh? Sounds like TC jumped the gun. Why would the feature even be there if it didn't kill enemies faster naturally? People need to do more research before creating topics like this. If you don't like it just because or it's too complicated/slow, fine. But you need to understand the system you're criticizing before lashing out at it. |
Poor game design.
I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.
| Jumpin said: Before I get into the stuff I didn't like, the stuff I did like. THE GOOD 1. The idea of selecting different characters with different gameplay features and skills. WHAT I HATE! The goddam battle system is about the most ridiculously gimmicky battle system I can ever remember coming across in an RPG. In most RPGs the command to attack is simple, you make sure the cursor is on the Attack command, then you hit A. In this game: First you hit R to charge up your attack (if you don't, you're just wasting attack potential), then you select your proper weapon to make sure to hit the enemy's weakness, and then you hit attack. A little complexity never hurt, right? WRONG, in this game, you are constantly in battles. Regular battles are long and drawn out, and you'll find yourself doing those same set of commands over and over again, hundreds and hundreds of times during the course of the demo, which is only 2-3 hours. It gets EXTREMELY tiring for anyone who realizes the BS they're going through. It doesn't accomplish anything more than other RPGs, it's a tacked on gimmick to make the attack command take more work top execute than it should need. "But you can stock attacks for strategically timed bursts" - that is how it is marketed. The reality is in ever single case with the demo, this offered no significant benefit. Essentially, if you hit an enemy once and store the attack to hit him 3 times the next turn, it accomplishes no extra damage than just hitting the enemy twice, and then twice again after. The only time where I saw a benefit is when using a special move, and then following up with a triple hit - but even then, it is a rather trivial addition, and it doesn't improve the gameplay experience. The battle system was tiring after only one character's demo, I can only imagine how horrendous it will be throughout the entirety of a (presumably) 40-90 hour game that seems to be heavily focused on having lots of long drawn-out random battles. Never have I been sold and unsold so fast on a game. But I thank Square for putting out the demo so I could find this out now. |
Bold: What am I missing here, I only played one of the characters and there was no switching weapons mid battle with her. You would attack and if they were weak against that weapon then it would turn from a ? into an icon of that weapon type and the counter would move on their break meter. If they were not weak against the weapon you were you using their break counter wouldn't move....
| The_Yoda said: Sorry I'm with others, I don't think you were applying any strategy and drawing out your battles as a result. |
I got pretty far into that Boss fight on my first try and was incredibly annoyed when i couldn't find a way to skip the long cut scene-esque dialog that precedes it. When I died the second time I figured I'd go grind and stock up on equpment, purely so I wouldn't have to deal the dialog again. I'm still not sure if that is bad game design by making it tedious to get to the fight and somewhat lessening the emotional impact or good game design since it discourages you from taking on the fight until you're ready.
| Jumpin said: Before I get into the stuff I didn't like, the stuff I did like. THE GOOD 1. The idea of selecting different characters with different gameplay features and skills. WHAT I HATE! The goddam battle system is about the most ridiculously gimmicky battle system I can ever remember coming across in an RPG. In most RPGs the command to attack is simple, you make sure the cursor is on the Attack command, then you hit A. In this game: First you hit R to charge up your attack (if you don't, you're just wasting attack potential), then you select your proper weapon to make sure to hit the enemy's weakness, and then you hit attack. A little complexity never hurt, right? WRONG, in this game, you are constantly in battles. Regular battles are long and drawn out, and you'll find yourself doing those same set of commands over and over again, hundreds and hundreds of times during the course of the demo, which is only 2-3 hours. It gets EXTREMELY tiring for anyone who realizes the BS they're going through. It doesn't accomplish anything more than other RPGs, it's a tacked on gimmick to make the attack command take more work top execute than it should need. "But you can stock attacks for strategically timed bursts" - that is how it is marketed. The reality is in ever single case with the demo, this offered no significant benefit. Essentially, if you hit an enemy once and store the attack to hit him 3 times the next turn, it accomplishes no extra damage than just hitting the enemy twice, and then twice again after. The only time where I saw a benefit is when using a special move, and then following up with a triple hit - but even then, it is a rather trivial addition, and it doesn't improve the gameplay experience. The battle system was tiring after only one character's demo, I can only imagine how horrendous it will be throughout the entirety of a (presumably) 40-90 hour game that seems to be heavily focused on having lots of long drawn-out random battles. Never have I been sold and unsold so fast on a game. But I thank Square for putting out the demo so I could find this out now. |
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.
Let's use an example. I'm fighting an enemy and I hit him once and it does damage. He attacks me. My next turn I attack him using 3x and notice on the second hit that I get a break. I just learnt that using that weapon, it takes 3 hits total to set him into break mode. IF you didn't notice, break mode means they lose their turn to not only attack that turn, but the following turn.
Thus I keep that in memory. While he is break mode, I DO NOT use my chain attack, I attack with a normal attack, a magic attack, buff myself, heal, summon ally, whatever. The point is, I build up 1 point for the following turn when he gets to attack again. My turn ends, and its my turn again, due ot him being broke,. He is no longer broke, so he will attack after me. I go to 3X attack, because I KNOW that this will break him. Thus he doesn't get ot attack again.
I've fought so many battles, where th enemy has gotten to attack like once to each of my like 8 turns. Heck, lots of times beyond te first round, the enemy never gets to attack again.
That is how you use the break system, not to just endlessly use as much as you can each round, which would be two. You can go to a max of four, even though you can build up higher than that.
Most enemies break at either 2 or 3. I usually start a battle with a 2x attack. If that don't break them, then i know its 3 and just do a normal attack next round. Then while they are broke I do a simple magic attack that does like 10x the damage of my normal attack. Doing a normal magic attack also builds up a counter, so my next attack, i have 3. Just enough to break again. Rinse and repeat. Enemy dead.
Jumpin said:
Poor game design. |
That isn't the case, though.
irstupid said:
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. Let's use an example. I'm fighting an enemy and I hit him once and it does damage. He attacks me. My next turn I attack him using 3x and notice on the second hit that I get a break. I just learnt that using that weapon, it takes 3 hits total to set him into break mode. IF you didn't notice, break mode means they lose their turn to not only attack that turn, but the following turn. Thus I keep that in memory. While he is break mode, I DO NOT use my chain attack, I attack with a normal attack, a magic attack, buff myself, heal, summon ally, whatever. The point is, I build up 1 point for the following turn when he gets to attack again. My turn ends, and its my turn again, due ot him being broke,. He is no longer broke, so he will attack after me. I go to 3X attack, because I KNOW that this will break him. Thus he doesn't get ot attack again. I've fought so many battles, where th enemy has gotten to attack like once to each of my like 8 turns. Heck, lots of times beyond te first round, the enemy never gets to attack again. That is how you use the break system, not to just endlessly use as much as you can each round, which would be two. You can go to a max of four, even though you can build up higher than that. Most enemies break at either 2 or 3. I usually start a battle with a 2x attack. If that don't break them, then i know its 3 and just do a normal attack next round. Then while they are broke I do a simple magic attack that does like 10x the damage of my normal attack. Doing a normal magic attack also builds up a counter, so my next attack, i have 3. Just enough to break again. Rinse and repeat. Enemy dead. |
And you can do that way easier by hitting twice each turn and keeping the enemy broken and unable to attack until it is dead.
All you have done is describe a bunch of actions which take more commands to accomplish the exact same simple task of attacking. After you repeat this chore hundreds and hundreds of times, it gets tiring. There are easier and less painful ways to go about a battle system.
I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.
Roar_Of_War said:
That isn't the case. |
So you think a battle system boated with gimmickry is good game design then? I disagree. Any game designer would tell you likewise.
I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.
Ok, I just played Primrose's story and more or less agree with the combat complaint. I'm not a turn-based RPG expert, but I found it funny when, while dealing with the boss, I just removed the big guy's shield, stunned him, dealt 500+ damage with a special attack and then rinse and repeat until I ran out of MP, which I later refilled with an item and then proceeded to do the whole process again. At one point it felt like a giant sponge, and I wonder if such a trick could stack until at least mid-game, but in general it felt too easy.
However, I adore the style, but I missed that I couldn't skip the dialogues, even if they weren't too long, I just wasn't too interested in the little story.
EDIT: The music was majestic.
My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first.
irstupid said:
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. Let's use an example. I'm fighting an enemy and I hit him once and it does damage. He attacks me. My next turn I attack him using 3x and notice on the second hit that I get a break. I just learnt that using that weapon, it takes 3 hits total to set him into break mode. IF you didn't notice, break mode means they lose their turn to not only attack that turn, but the following turn. Thus I keep that in memory. While he is break mode, I DO NOT use my chain attack, I attack with a normal attack, a magic attack, buff myself, heal, summon ally, whatever. The point is, I build up 1 point for the following turn when he gets to attack again. My turn ends, and its my turn again, due ot him being broke,. He is no longer broke, so he will attack after me. I go to 3X attack, because I KNOW that this will break him. Thus he doesn't get ot attack again. I've fought so many battles, where th enemy has gotten to attack like once to each of my like 8 turns. Heck, lots of times beyond te first round, the enemy never gets to attack again. That is how you use the break system, not to just endlessly use as much as you can each round, which would be two. You can go to a max of four, even though you can build up higher than that. Most enemies break at either 2 or 3. I usually start a battle with a 2x attack. If that don't break them, then i know its 3 and just do a normal attack next round. Then while they are broke I do a simple magic attack that does like 10x the damage of my normal attack. Doing a normal magic attack also builds up a counter, so my next attack, i have 3. Just enough to break again. Rinse and repeat. Enemy dead. |
/this
You can use the battle system to strategically take down enemies far stronger than you. Unlike most modern RPGs, standard enemies actually are cable of inflicting decent amounts of damage on you. Mastering the boost system minimized the amount of turns your foes get. If you play you cards correctly, you can often prevent your foes from hitting you at all. Before I got the hang of this I was burning through healing grapes. The demo took this from a game that I'd snag on sale to a game I'll buy day one. This game oozes the personality and soul of a classic Square RPG. I was fearful that this would be a souless paint by numbers JRPG like I Am Setsuna. If this demo is indicative of the final games quality, this will be the best Square RPG I've played in years.
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