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Forums - Sales Discussion - How the Xbox One X can have a real shot at success, despite the high price.

caffeinade said:

The XxX only has 6 FP16 TFLOPS.
The PS4 Pro has 8.4 FP16 TFLOPS. 
Microsoft don't have rapid packed math in their GPU.

Yeah, I've completely forgot that MS skipped on double-rate FP16.



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niceguygameplayer said:
jason1637 said:
Paying for third party exclusives really doent help them in the longer run. Microsoft is better off building new studios and developing new IPs that they can own.
The XBX really isn't going to set the industry in fire sales wise and I think MS knows that. At first it will be for those that want the best performance from consoles, hardcore Xbox fans, and tech enthusiasts.
They probably expect it to sell better down the line as a cheaper entry level console that can play ninth gen games with their no generations approach.

Your last sentence could be true, but buying exclusives almost won them the 7th generation war against PS3 and even put them higher in game sales than Wii. They expanded their overall brand and recouped a lot of money in game sales. 

Yea but how many of those exclusives they bought last gen are exclusive on Xbox One? Only Gears of war.



If switch was simply a traditional console, it wouldn't be selling as well as it is selling right now. Power isnt in those gamers mind when they are buying it



monocle_layton said:
"Urrr some people are paying scalpers for a popular console with great exclusives and portability. They'll certainly pay $500 for a console if they can get a lineup weaker than Greece's economy!"

Maybe it will come with a breaking plate simulator in 4k? :o the possibilities

And yeah... this E3 started off talking about the GB memory bandwidth of the Xbox 1 X.... absolutely lost the casual gamer from that point forward imo, they just don't have a clue what gamers want or it seems if they do know what gamers want, they're unwilling to change their creed to sell to that customer which is a shame because the X360 was a machine for the gamers really and the X1 just seems to be powered by a corporate meeting rather than anyone with an interest in gaming. The thought that Forza in 4k is going to shift consoles too is just a joke when you think that there is already 5 Forza games on the system, is the 6th one really going to be the turning poing for the machine? is this really expected to be the Breath of the Wild for the system?



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Pemalite said:
SegataSanshiro said:

Remember when PlayStation 2 failed because the hardware was weaker than Gamecube and Xbox? Remember when Wii never outsold the HD consoles? Oh that's right they were the best selling systems of their generation. My bad. I thought is all that mattered...gee... Oh and Switch is $300 not $400.

* The Playstation 2 wasn't the weakest console that generation. The Dreamcast was.

* The Playstation 4 was also the strongest console of this generation out of the gate and is dominating.

* SNES was superior to Genesis.

Power or lack-there-of isn't a prerequisite to a consoles success, having the right hardware at the right price is.

The Xbox 360 for instance is a perfect example of that they had the right performing hardware at the right price, the Playstation 3 wasn't pushing graphics that were generationally superior, heck allot of multiplats were worst on it! And it was priced significantly higher.
Having the right games also helps, the Xbox was being pushed by Halo at the time. (That era has passed.)

niceguygameplayer said:

I don't know where you got your information, but Switch is the first Nintendo system to reach a teraflops. In comparison, the PS4 has 1.8 teraflops. 

The Switch does not reach a Teraflop of single precision floating point. Please do not spread false information.

NATO said:
The "success" of the ps4 pro should have been a wake up call.

I think there is a small subset of users who think the Xbox One X will be some insane seller, it won't be.
The Playstation 4 Pro set the precedent of what to expect.

HoloDust said:

He got it where all other people that are even remotely following tech have...on various tech sites.

Switch is powered by Tegra X1, a 256:16:16 GPU (if you know what that means) running at 768Mhz docked and 307.2MHz handheld (which translates into 0.39 TFLOPS and 0.16TFLOPS, FP32) or when boosted 921MHz docked and 384MHz handheld (0.47TFLOPS and 0.2TFLOPS, FP32).

What you're thinking of is FP16 performance, and when docked, in boost mode Switch can deliver 0.94 TFLOPS....XOneX can deliver 12TFLOPS FP16.

EDIT: Actually scrap that, there's no boost mode (so far) in docked mode, that was only tested, but not implemented. So 0.78TFLOPS FP16 in docked mode.

To calculate the magical flops... It is...
Shader count * Instructions per clock * Clock Rate.
Ergo. 256 * 2 * 768 = 393 Gflop.
For fixed-math modes where two FP16 operations are done on the FP32 unit, then you just double it again. Or. 786 Gflop.

However, FP16 comes with caveats, it cannot be used for everything as it's precision is inadequate for allot of tasks... And with that, flops isn't an accurate representation for comparing the performance capabilities of different chips anyway.

You can have a chip with less flops outperform a chip with more flops.


niceguygameplayer said:

The most powerful console won in the 4th generation, the SNES over Sega Genesis.

The Genesis did have a superior CPU. However... It's GPU and Sound capabilities did come up short against the SNES. Both consoles used "add-ons" to bolster their respective power later such as the SuperFX chip on the SNES.

Regardless, the proof is in the pudding... Er games.

niceguygameplayer said:

In the 5th, the CD technology of the PlayStation destroyed the N64, and also it had better polygon performance that bested the Saturn's. It won the 5th and was most powerful. And no N64 was not the most powerful.

The textures were stretched and blurred, plus the cinema scenes were near impossible with cartridge tech and Nintendo lost Final Fantasy due to the cartridge tech.

The Nintendo 64 was the most powerful console that generation. This isn't even up for dispute. So please do not spread mis-information.

The physical media is actually technically superior on the Nintendo 64 as it had higher transfer rates and lower access times, the PS1's physical media had the advantage of capacity. That's it.

As for Polygonal performance... When Nintendo allowed developers to make their own Microcode, it was a polygon pusher.

It also had texture filtering, anti-aliasing, 480P resolutions, full Texture and Lighting, it was an effects powerhouse.

Again, the evidence is in the games. Perfect Dark obliterates anything on the Playstation 1 or Saturn graphically... And that isn't even the best looking Nintendo 64 game.

niceguygameplayer said:

PS4 is the most powerful of the 8th generation (until Xbox One X). It has been winning pretty much all along partially due to hitting 1080p vs 900p for Xbox One. People like the idea of having the best version of a game. As you can see you are clearly wrong. Power can help win generations.

The Playstation 4 has games that are sub 1080P. It just happens far far far less often than the Xbox One.

What is ultimately important is the right hardware for the right price, the Playstation 4 smashed that out of the park.
 

niceguygameplayer said:

Also, Xbox One X is the biggest leap in one generation, ever. This is a bigger leap than PS2 and the original Xbox.


The Original Xbox had a myriad of new graphics effects that the Playstation 2 couldn't even dream about... Like fully compliant DX Pixel and Vertex shading.
The feature set of the Xbox One X isn't generationally different to that of the base Xbox One.

The Original Xbox was pushing graphics that was able to compete with early Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 games. In-fact a few early Xbox 360 games like Kameo and Perfect Dark: Zero was slated as original Xbox titles at one point.

niceguygameplayer said:

Please do the research before blasting me in the future.


*Chokes*

SegataSanshiro said:

Jaguar,3D0,Neo Geo AES,CDi all more powerful than SNES from the same generation of consoles.

Most don't include them in comparisons as they were never really mainstream consoles. It really depends how far you wish to push the goal posts I guess.

Azzanation said:

Yeah i think its called Halo..


Sadly, Halo is in decline. Sales have been in decline since reaching it's height with Halo 3... The Master Chief Collection was a massive failure, absolutely terrible game.

Halo 5 released bare-bones, graphically sub-par of what to expect this generation... And it's singleplayer left much to be desired.

Halo Wars 2 never reached the same heights as Halo Wars 1... And Halo Wars 2+Halo Wars Definitive Edition have a non-existent multiplayer base, making matchmaking useless. (In oceania at least.)

Plus, Spartan Strike never made it to Xbox either, which is sad, the only Halo never to do so.

Hoping for the best, expecting the worst with Halo 6 to be honest. Hopefully they give it the appropriate degree of development and budget to make it shine on the Xbox One X... Microsoft needs the success.

SegataSanshiro said:

You can't directly compare them. AMD GPU's suck with flops with Open GL where Nvida gets a lot more out of it and using Vulkan. Well Switch is fine.

A flop is a flop. They are neither better or worst.

The reason for the performance discrepancy is simple. There is more to rendering a game than flops. Funny that, huh?

In compute-only tasks, AMD actually does well, it's just their GPU's in general right now are shit for gaming.

Did I say PS2 was the weakest no I did not. SNES was weaker than Neo Geo,Jaguar,CDi,3D0 all part of that console generation.



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vivster said:
darkenergy said:

I'm pretty sure holiday bundles may have to do with some of those.

Fact is that Halo is obviously not moving X1s, so there is no reason to believe that it would move XBOXs.

Are you ignoring my other comment? Whatever you say.

Azzanation said:

Yeah i think its called Halo..


Sadly, Halo is in decline. Sales have been in decline since reaching it's height with Halo 3... The Master Chief Collection was a massive failure, absolutely terrible game.

Some sales for Halo 5 were digital, so there isn't really a decline when you consider that and no TMCC sold 3 million plus so it isn't a terrible game.

Ganoncrotch said:
monocle_layton said:
"Urrr some people are paying scalpers for a popular console with great exclusives and portability. They'll certainly pay $500 for a console if they can get a lineup weaker than Greece's economy!"

Maybe it will come with a breaking plate simulator in 4k? :o the possibilities

And yeah... this E3 started off talking about the GB memory bandwidth of the Xbox 1 X.... absolutely lost the casual gamer from that point forward imo, they just don't have a clue what gamers want or it seems if they do know what gamers want, they're unwilling to change their creed to sell to that customer which is a shame because the X360 was a machine for the gamers really and the X1 just seems to be powered by a corporate meeting rather than anyone with an interest in gaming. The thought that Forza in 4k is going to shift consoles too is just a joke when you think that there is already 5 Forza games on the system, is the 6th one really going to be the turning poing for the machine? is this really expected to be the Breath of the Wild for the system?

What are you talking about there is nothing wrong with them talking about the GB bandwidth at the start. They only talk about that for only a few minutes then went to the games starting with the Forza Motorsport 7 reveal. The Forza franchise is good there are still people that are going to buy X1 for Forza not to mention there are likely bundles for it (as well as other games to).



Proud to be a Californian.

SegataSanshiro said:

Did I say PS2 was the weakest no I did not. SNES was weaker than Neo Geo,Jaguar,CDi,3D0 all part of that console generation.

Please quote properly, the entire thing didn't need to be quoted.

The point I was making there is power is not what determines success or failure.

darkenergy said:


Sadly, Halo is in decline. Sales have been in decline since reaching it's height with Halo 3... The Master Chief Collection was a massive failure, absolutely terrible game.

Some sales for Halo 5 were digital, so there isn't really a decline when you consider that and no TMCC sold 3 million plus so it isn't a terrible game.

Are you suggesting that 10+ million copies of Halo 5 were digital?



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Ganoncrotch said:
monocle_layton said:
"Urrr some people are paying scalpers for a popular console with great exclusives and portability. They'll certainly pay $500 for a console if they can get a lineup weaker than Greece's economy!"

Maybe it will come with a breaking plate simulator in 4k? :o the possibilities

And yeah... this E3 started off talking about the GB memory bandwidth of the Xbox 1 X.... absolutely lost the casual gamer from that point forward imo, they just don't have a clue what gamers want or it seems if they do know what gamers want, they're unwilling to change their creed to sell to that customer which is a shame because the X360 was a machine for the gamers really and the X1 just seems to be powered by a corporate meeting rather than anyone with an interest in gaming. The thought that Forza in 4k is going to shift consoles too is just a joke when you think that there is already 5 Forza games on the system, is the 6th one really going to be the turning poing for the machine? is this really expected to be the Breath of the Wild for the system?

Seeing fans act as though Forza is a console-worthy purchase makes me think it's a joke.

 

There is absolutely no way some racing game, regardless of how good it is, will ever have that much power. The Xbox One X's only power is from its sheer specs.

 

It's like having the strongest man in the world be a complete dumbass. Not gonna be doing much with that strength if it can't even use it properly



TheBlackNaruto said:
Azzanation said:

 

Didnt Halo 5 and UC4 sit on rougly the same amount of sales at 4m until Sony heavily bundled the crap out of the game on just about every bundle available for the Xmas period. While Halo 5 being one of the least favorite in the franchise still manage to sell 5m to date. That to me says enough.

Wait I thought UC4 sold faster and better even before that? Like it was at almost 9 million as of December but all of that did not come from bundles because there was a break down that showed the sales. Or am I mistaken? And to be fair the person you quoted said more popular than Sony and Nintendo combined and you said yeah it is called Halo which was false. Though I do agree Halo while not as big as it was before is still very popular. Selling 5million is NOTHING to scoff at.

UC4 slowed down heavily on sales after it hit the 4m mark just like Halo 5 did. UC4 did sell alittle faster to get there however what do you expect on a platform with twice the audience and market.

At Xmas time you couldnt buy a PS4 without UC4 included in the bundle (atleast where i am from) the game sales fluffed up due to the PS4 selling extremly well and UC4 was basically a free game for every owner. Hence how it all of a sudden doubled its sales from 4m to 8m+ very quickly.

5m sales isnt something to scoff at... name me all the 1st party PS4 exclusive games that have surpassed 5m in total sales. Dont worry ill wait for your response.

5m+ and probably more is pretty good on a system with 20m sold thought out at the time. Thats a similar attach rate to 9m with 60m consoles sold.

If MS wanted to, they could have bundled Halo 5 with every Xbox sold and it would most likely be sitting on 8m+ aswell. Instead it was only offered as the more expensive bundle and a digital code to boot.



darkenergy said:
vivster said:

Fact is that Halo is obviously not moving X1s, so there is no reason to believe that it would move XBOXs.

Are you ignoring my other comment? Whatever you say.


Sadly, Halo is in decline. Sales have been in decline since reaching it's height with Halo 3... The Master Chief Collection was a massive failure, absolutely terrible game.

Some sales for Halo 5 were digital, so there isn't really a decline when you consider that and no TMCC sold 3 million plus so it isn't a terrible game.

Ganoncrotch said:

Maybe it will come with a breaking plate simulator in 4k? :o the possibilities

And yeah... this E3 started off talking about the GB memory bandwidth of the Xbox 1 X.... absolutely lost the casual gamer from that point forward imo, they just don't have a clue what gamers want or it seems if they do know what gamers want, they're unwilling to change their creed to sell to that customer which is a shame because the X360 was a machine for the gamers really and the X1 just seems to be powered by a corporate meeting rather than anyone with an interest in gaming. The thought that Forza in 4k is going to shift consoles too is just a joke when you think that there is already 5 Forza games on the system, is the 6th one really going to be the turning poing for the machine? is this really expected to be the Breath of the Wild for the system?

What are you talking about there is nothing wrong with them talking about the GB bandwidth at the start. They only talk about that for only a few minutes then went to the games starting with the Forza Motorsport 7 reveal. The Forza franchise is good there are still people that are going to buy X1 for Forza not to mention there are likely bundles for it (as well as other games to).

Do you really think there is someone who would buy an X1 for Forza... who hasn't already bought the machine?

Sure.... there might be customers who want to buy a console for Forza... but if they haven't bought the system for the first 5 Forza titles on it, what in the world makes you think this 6th Forza game on the X1 will be the one which makes them finally take the leap?



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive