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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Best explanation why Zelda BotW is great

AngryLittleAlchemist said:
vivster said:

 

The funny thing is that wasn't what made me quit the game for good. I love open world games for the freedom they give you. I will roam around kill some dudes, explore a bit and roam around more. That's for me the definition of freedom and open world.

Then the game barges in and tells you that you cannot use your weapon that you found and that you love anymore. It's saying, you better not kill those dudes or I'm gonna take away your stuff. That's already quite weird to actively discourage me to engage with the world. The Gothic series does the same thing but it uses actual gameplay, story and world design to do it instead of implementing a simple break switch.

But as if that wasn't enough it then starts to to tell me where I can and can't go and when I can and can't go to some place. We'll gonna give you an awesome climbing mechanic but we will only let you climb when we tell you to. That's a bit bossy and kinda against what an open world is supposed to represent I thought to myself. Then it started to rain every 5 minutes and I decided this open world game does not want me to open world so I'm just gonna let it alone.

So in a sense, I didn't quit the game, the game just didn't want me to play it anymore.

Making the player wait to for no reason is what shitty mobile games do. And even in shitty mobile games they give you the option to skip your waiting time, which makes BOTW an even worse offender. I know the Switch is supposed to be a mobile console but that doesn't mean it has to act like one.

Good thing there are still real open world games out there that don't Nintendo the fun away from you.

You're completely overblowing the Durability mechanic. I was *consistently* finding better weapons than I previously had. It's not like you get 4 ultra powered weapons early in the game and then they just break. Pretty much every weapon that breaks is in high quantity or has a better equivalent. Most of the better weapons in the game have more durability anyways. 

What are you talking about? I haven't explored *all* of the game yet but I've explored a lot of it and it never restricted where I went. Unless you're talking about rain or snow and heat. In which case you just make an elixir for Snow and heat or make food based on it, or use a fire weapon or ice weapon on wildlife. The raining can get annoying but it only rains consistently in specific areas(there's a tropical area which ... is obviously going to have rain, and the Kakariko Village pretty consistently has rain). There's not a lot of places outside of that though. Again I'm not saying your wrong, i'm just curious how these are so big in your mind. The thunder is probably my biggest problem with the game tbh.

It's not overblown because it's a mechanic that no one would miss if it wasn't there from the beginning. Its uselessness is what makes it so much worse. If you add on top of it that the game relies on you to switch weapons constantly and then does not have an intuitive and quick weapon switch system you have an insult to player.

I specifically refer to the rain. The cold and hot mechanics are nice additions that encourage you to explore, gather items and craft stuff.

BOTW has a great and gigantic world to explore and to do it efficiently I will sweep areas in order and methodically. I cannot do that when the game tells me to arbitrarily wait ten minutes to continue my exploration or just to fuck off. That's a horrible thing to do and it adds nothing to the game but annoyance. You cannot hand the player a gigantic toolbox at the start of the game and then arbitrarily decide on random chance when he is allowed what tool to use. That's just terrible game design. Maybe if they made some kind of weather report so you can plan accordingly or gave you the tools to climb wet surfaces it would be different. But as it is now it's just another annoyance thrown into the game with no sense or reason.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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vivster said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

You're completely overblowing the Durability mechanic. I was *consistently* finding better weapons than I previously had. It's not like you get 4 ultra powered weapons early in the game and then they just break. Pretty much every weapon that breaks is in high quantity or has a better equivalent. Most of the better weapons in the game have more durability anyways. 

What are you talking about? I haven't explored *all* of the game yet but I've explored a lot of it and it never restricted where I went. Unless you're talking about rain or snow and heat. In which case you just make an elixir for Snow and heat or make food based on it, or use a fire weapon or ice weapon on wildlife. The raining can get annoying but it only rains consistently in specific areas(there's a tropical area which ... is obviously going to have rain, and the Kakariko Village pretty consistently has rain). There's not a lot of places outside of that though. Again I'm not saying your wrong, i'm just curious how these are so big in your mind. The thunder is probably my biggest problem with the game tbh.

It's not overblown because it's a mechanic that no one would miss if it wasn't there from the beginning. Its uselessness is what makes it so much worse. If you add on top of it that the game relies on you to switch weapons constantly and then does not have an intuitive and quick weapon switch system you have an insult to player.

I specifically refer to the rain. The cold and hot mechanics are nice additions that encourage you to explore, gather items and craft stuff.

BOTW has a great and gigantic world to explore and to do it efficiently I will sweep areas in order and methodically. I cannot do that when the game tells me to arbitrarily wait ten minutes to continue my exploration or just to fuck off. That's a horrible thing to do and it adds nothing to the game but annoyance. You cannot hand the player a gigantic toolbox at the start of the game and then arbitrarily decide on random chance when he is allowed what tool to use. That's just terrible game design. Maybe if they made some kind of weather report so you can plan accordingly or gave you the tools to climb wet surfaces it would be different. But as it is now it's just another annoyance thrown into the game with no sense or reason.

But see *this* is why I can't see why you hate the game or think it's like , the bane of Open world fun. Literally there's two areas with consistent rain, maybe one more I haven't discovered. I'm not trying to excuse it but it's not exactly game breaking, like 90% of the world has no rain(at least I've never seen it in a cold or desert world, and the grass lands almost never have rain). It's pretty much just the tropics. 

 

I don't agree. I'm not a Zelda expert or fan, far from it, but to me Zelda games have always had a problem with exploration where you're only rewarded with rupees or heart pieces - which after a few chests become entirely meaningless. Essentially exploration in the old Zelda games is hardly properly rewarded, but I think Majora's Mask was *getting there* with the masks or sword(which was also in Ocarina but eh). The durability mechanic, along with the introduction of new weapons, encourages exploration. Without the durability mechanic, players would keep the same weapons almost the entire game if they found a great weapon early on. And then they'd be like "What the heck!?!?!?! This enemy doesn't die from my soldier's broadsword??? Game is bugged dood! Can't even kill this guardian dood!" Now I know you and another user talked about earlier how a game shouldn't use weapon breaks as a way to make the player experiment with different weapons. But Breath of the Wild is closer to a survival game, than most games themed around realistic survival mechanics. Duration feeds into exploration which feeds into the first really interesting chest loot in the Zelda series which leads to more exploration. It's a way to teach players to explore without forcing them to. I also like using weapon break tactically. It's *soooo* satisfying to through a sword at the face of a goblin to make them shoot across the ground and fall down a cliff, or to make them drop their weapon as they fall over. I don't think the system is perfect, but I think it fits the tone with the game a lot. It's artificial sure but I think it works well for the world. Could be a little better, not that bad though. In fact it's honestly almost perfect.

A great example of this is that one time I went to this stable just out of Kakariko village and I overheard these two dudes talking about a poem that was cryptic. I paid them to telll me more, then I went to dualing peaks thinking that the poem told me to go there. After getting a boat and playing pirate for a while, I landed on shores to try and scout this illusive cave and find the treasure. No quest markers, no big hints - and the river was even split in two meaning I had to use my own mind to take a risk and decide which route to follow the water(it was flowing from both directions). So I found the cave eventually and it had this awesome as flame sword that did 22 damage + flame damage, and at the time I was using weapons with like 12 damage. I was so happy I freaked out. At first thinking about how it was so cool made me not want to use it, but I started to use it. It was much more durable than I imagined but I was getting to a point where it was evenly matched between other weapons. As long as you keep exploring, you pretty much will almost never have a favorite weapon. 

I agree though, the amount of weapons you can have at once is kind of weak. Feels like a bit too much of a restrictive.



Ganoncrotch said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

And those are? 

It rains sometimes and I can't climb a mountain

My shiny weapon broke, I wanted to use that weapon for the whole game so I could avoid all the other mechanics and weapons that the game has to offer me!

Probably those two, maybe something thrown in about how there isn't breadcrumbs to follow or someone taking you by the hand dragging you from dungeon to dungeon screaming "CLICK THAT BUTTON TO KILL GANON A BIT!" Before dragging you to the next dungeon splicing in the trip with a 20 minute unskippable cutscene.

The best part is if the rain and durability was gone, different people would complain because they went to hyrule Castle,  got a super weapon and the game became too easy. It doesn't matter how good something is. Someone will hate it. I have a friend who hates the Sound of Music, lol. That's a classic.



Man....  This guy nailed it.  HZD is a great game, yet comparing it to BOTW is laughable at best, as there is no comparison.  One of the best reviews I have ever seen, I will follow this guy from now on.



Ganoncrotch said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
I don't like the game at all, and an 18 minute video isn't going to convince me otherwise.

Good for you!

Not really. It's always better to like something than dislike it, but here we are.



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pokoko said:
mZuzek said:
This video should be seen by everyone who complains about Nintendo consoles not having trophies or achievements or stuff like that. It just takes all the joy out of it, really.

Clicking a button that turns off notifications takes the joy out of gaming?

That was not his point. He was saying he liked how the game never tells you that there are 120 shrines or 900 kurok seeds or whatever collection aspect there is. There is not even a way to turn that on. I know those numbers cause google/internet and you can do that easy enough.

But he is saying not seeing 19/120 on his loading screen makes the game not feel like a chore or he has to do something. When he beat Ganon and the beasta and memories (basically the only thing the games say there is this many of) he felt like he could put the game down if he wanted. Didn't see this 87/120 shrines found or 134/900 kurok seeds or somethign and make him feel lik ehe has to complete them or something.

I'm sure you guys have experienced that in some game at some point. I beat ff15 and found the game to be a big dissapointment, but looking at the trophies, there was like 3 I didn't get. Thus I forced myself to play some more to get them. The game being as bad as it is, I acutally managed to stop myself and am one short still. But those trophies/achievement turned the game into a job/chore after I beat it just to get it "complete" BOTW takes that away. Even when you know how many of something is there, you don't have the game basically telling you that you are incomplete.



vivster said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

You're completely overblowing the Durability mechanic. I was *consistently* finding better weapons than I previously had. It's not like you get 4 ultra powered weapons early in the game and then they just break. Pretty much every weapon that breaks is in high quantity or has a better equivalent. Most of the better weapons in the game have more durability anyways. 

What are you talking about? I haven't explored *all* of the game yet but I've explored a lot of it and it never restricted where I went. Unless you're talking about rain or snow and heat. In which case you just make an elixir for Snow and heat or make food based on it, or use a fire weapon or ice weapon on wildlife. The raining can get annoying but it only rains consistently in specific areas(there's a tropical area which ... is obviously going to have rain, and the Kakariko Village pretty consistently has rain). There's not a lot of places outside of that though. Again I'm not saying your wrong, i'm just curious how these are so big in your mind. The thunder is probably my biggest problem with the game tbh.

It's not overblown because it's a mechanic that no one would miss if it wasn't there from the beginning. Its uselessness is what makes it so much worse. If you add on top of it that the game relies on you to switch weapons constantly and then does not have an intuitive and quick weapon switch system you have an insult to player.

I specifically refer to the rain. The cold and hot mechanics are nice additions that encourage you to explore, gather items and craft stuff.

BOTW has a great and gigantic world to explore and to do it efficiently I will sweep areas in order and methodically. I cannot do that when the game tells me to arbitrarily wait ten minutes to continue my exploration or just to fuck off. That's a horrible thing to do and it adds nothing to the game but annoyance. You cannot hand the player a gigantic toolbox at the start of the game and then arbitrarily decide on random chance when he is allowed what tool to use. That's just terrible game design. Maybe if they made some kind of weather report so you can plan accordingly or gave you the tools to climb wet surfaces it would be different. But as it is now it's just another annoyance thrown into the game with no sense or reason.

There is a weather report in the UI. There's 3 icons that tell you the upcoming weather. But I agree, it was annoying, almost getting to the top then the rain starts and back down you go. First few drops and it turns into a slide. Fires don't work so you can't wait it out. Bomb arrows stop working so you can't blast open that cave you wanted to explore. Lightning starts forcing you to go into the inventory so the lighting can't see your stuff in your magic pockets.

Once you have Revalis gale, plenty stamina and the climing gear it is very possible to climb in the rain. Jump just before you slide and with the climbing gear set onus you can still make decent progress. I was lucky to explore the desert and mountains first, didn't experience rain until I already had Revali's gale and multiple stamina bars. It was still annoying. I read there's a helmet to protect you from lighting, never found it in my 170 hours with the game... Bomb arrows have no way around it though. I've sat starting at multiple breakable walls waiting for the rain to finally stop. Trying to save/reload hoping the rain would piss off.

AngryLittleAlchemist said:

But see *this* is why I can't see why you hate the game or think it's like , the bane of Open world fun. Literally there's two areas with consistent rain, maybe one more I haven't discovered. I'm not trying to excuse it but it's not exactly game breaking, like 90% of the world has no rain(at least I've never seen it in a cold or desert world, and the grass lands almost never have rain). It's pretty much just the tropics. 

 

I don't agree. I'm not a Zelda expert or fan, far from it, but to me Zelda games have always had a problem with exploration where you're only rewarded with rupees or heart pieces - which after a few chests become entirely meaningless. Essentially exploration in the old Zelda games is hardly properly rewarded, but I think Majora's Mask was *getting there* with the masks or sword(which was also in Ocarina but eh). The durability mechanic, along with the introduction of new weapons, encourages exploration. Without the durability mechanic, players would keep the same weapons almost the entire game if they found a great weapon early on. And then they'd be like "What the heck!?!?!?! This enemy doesn't die from my soldier's broadsword??? Game is bugged dood! Can't even kill this guardian dood!" Now I know you and another user talked about earlier how a game shouldn't use weapon breaks as a way to make the player experiment with different weapons. But Breath of the Wild is closer to a survival game, than most games themed around realistic survival mechanics. Duration feeds into exploration which feeds into the first really interesting chest loot in the Zelda series which leads to more exploration. It's a way to teach players to explore without forcing them to. I also like using weapon break tactically. It's *soooo* satisfying to through a sword at the face of a goblin to make them shoot across the ground and fall down a cliff, or to make them drop their weapon as they fall over. I don't think the system is perfect, but I think it fits the tone with the game a lot. It's artificial sure but I think it works well for the world. Could be a little better, not that bad though. In fact it's honestly almost perfect.

A great example of this is that one time I went to this stable just out of Kakariko village and I overheard these two dudes talking about a poem that was cryptic. I paid them to telll me more, then I went to dualing peaks thinking that the poem told me to go there. After getting a boat and playing pirate for a while, I landed on shores to try and scout this illusive cave and find the treasure. No quest markers, no big hints - and the river was even split in two meaning I had to use my own mind to take a risk and decide which route to follow the water(it was flowing from both directions). So I found the cave eventually and it had this awesome as flame sword that did 22 damage + flame damage, and at the time I was using weapons with like 12 damage. I was so happy I freaked out. At first thinking about how it was so cool made me not want to use it, but I started to use it. It was much more durable than I imagined but I was getting to a point where it was evenly matched between other weapons. As long as you keep exploring, you pretty much will almost never have a favorite weapon. 

I agree though, the amount of weapons you can have at once is kind of weak. Feels like a bit too much of a restrictive.

I was stuck with 8 weapon slots for the first 80 hours as I went my own way. I had about 200 Korok seeds when I finally ran into the dude, who only wanted me to spend 3 seeds before disappearing again... The first weapon I got after the plateau was a 45 dmg hammer. Kinda made everything look weak after that even though it broke. HZD does it better letting you experience different weapon combinations, better suited for different battles. There's no weapon breaking there and it's still fun to experiment and exciting to find a new tool.

I wasn't attacking enemies in BotW for their weapons or the little chest with a useless new weapon or shield. Just to loot their monster bits to upgrade armor. Weapons became kinda meaningless. Fight with whatever dropped the last fight. No point in getting attached to anything. Just keep a spear, sword and two hander at hand, don't bother with the elemental ones that take up space. Just one flame kind for melting and starting fires. Plus a two hander lighting sword to take out sleeping Hinox with spin attack plus lighting slam in 5 seconds. So satisfying. Works on Lynels as well.

My kid currently doesn't want to play anymore because of the random ninja attacks that never end. He want to light the torches in Akela, but it's raining and the yiga clan keeps showing up.



I still don't get the butthurt over weapon breaking. At most I was mildly inconvenienced at a few points in the game.



Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda!!!!


Ganoncrotch said:
archer9234 said:

That makes no sense one bit. Having black smiths in Hyrule would be the MOST lucrative job in the country, period. The Goron and Gerudo would be the logical choices for these jobs. In 100 years people would of taught themselves. Or grew up knowing already what to do. That's a bullshit excuse and you know it. Forcing people to "experiment" with other weapons is a bad reason for the degrade system. You know what really happens. People just exploit the game and farm for the quickest weapons. Than just ignore the rest.

I never used the Bomberrang, for example. I hardly used anything. Besides the few weapons that respawn at common places. I beat the game fine. I didn't care about learning the weapons. Because I can't save them. So the reason why they wanted me to "experiment" with weapons. Was the reason why I DIDN'T experiment. I care about having fun. The degrade system was not apart of that. I'd take the Master Sword being blocked off in the tradtional sense. So it be unlimited. Over free rain of the map. What's the point of the hearts limit on in anyway? The sword breaks and you have to wait 30 minutes. Shouldn't of than been enough to allow the sword to be gotten, right at the start.

You are saying that creating weapons as a job would be a great way to earn money?

In a world where Swords can break after a single pack of mobs are defeated....

But there are enough swords in the world to kill everything in the world 5000 times over?

Yep. Weapon breaks, 200 ruppes. Thank you! Come again!

You think once someone gets a good weapon. They're gonna waste their time to get other ones. No.

AngryLittleAlchemist said:
vivster said:

It's not overblown because it's a mechanic that no one would miss if it wasn't there from the beginning. Its uselessness is what makes it so much worse. If you add on top of it that the game relies on you to switch weapons constantly and then does not have an intuitive and quick weapon switch system you have an insult to player.

I specifically refer to the rain. The cold and hot mechanics are nice additions that encourage you to explore, gather items and craft stuff.

BOTW has a great and gigantic world to explore and to do it efficiently I will sweep areas in order and methodically. I cannot do that when the game tells me to arbitrarily wait ten minutes to continue my exploration or just to fuck off. That's a horrible thing to do and it adds nothing to the game but annoyance. You cannot hand the player a gigantic toolbox at the start of the game and then arbitrarily decide on random chance when he is allowed what tool to use. That's just terrible game design. Maybe if they made some kind of weather report so you can plan accordingly or gave you the tools to climb wet surfaces it would be different. But as it is now it's just another annoyance thrown into the game with no sense or reason.

The durability mechanic, along with the introduction of new weapons, encourages exploration. Without the durability mechanic, players would keep the same weapons almost the entire game if they found a great weapon early on.

But Breath of the Wild is closer to a survival game, than most games themed around realistic survival mechanics. Duration feeds into exploration which feeds into the first really interesting chest loot in the Zelda series which leads to more exploration.

That's what people want. You got the best weapon. Now I don't have to worry about the pointless weak fucks. Blow threw them. In this game, that's replaced with: My weapon breaks. I'll just run past them. Different reason, same response. Not bothering with the weak guys. What's the point of durability? So that I can randomly come across a really good weapon. While I'm still early in the game. I'd rather the weapons be scaled to locations or gated off. The Master Sword is gated by 13 hearts. Why is that a thing? The game contradicts itself. If you reach the Master Sword 2 hours in. You have it. And that's it. Who cares. it follows the breaking system. You can fight gannon right at the start. But not get your sword at the start. So much for freedom.

No it's not. A real survival game lets you repair or craft a new weapon yourself. And not rely on RNG. If my metal pickaxe broke in Ark. I go up a mountain and gather metal and other stuff. Repaired, moving on.



irstupid said:
pokoko said:

Clicking a button that turns off notifications takes the joy out of gaming?

That was not his point. He was saying he liked how the game never tells you that there are 120 shrines or 900 kurok seeds or whatever collection aspect there is. There is not even a way to turn that on. I know those numbers cause google/internet and you can do that easy enough.

But he is saying not seeing 19/120 on his loading screen makes the game not feel like a chore or he has to do something. When he beat Ganon and the beasta and memories (basically the only thing the games say there is this many of) he felt like he could put the game down if he wanted. Didn't see this 87/120 shrines found or 134/900 kurok seeds or somethign and make him feel lik ehe has to complete them or something.

I'm sure you guys have experienced that in some game at some point. I beat ff15 and found the game to be a big dissapointment, but looking at the trophies, there was like 3 I didn't get. Thus I forced myself to play some more to get them. The game being as bad as it is, I acutally managed to stop myself and am one short still. But those trophies/achievement turned the game into a job/chore after I beat it just to get it "complete" BOTW takes that away. Even when you know how many of something is there, you don't have the game basically telling you that you are incomplete.

I never look at trophies and If I don't want to achieve something then I don't worry about it.  What you're basically saying is that because some people can't control themselves, other people shouldn't have something which they enjoy.  It's the easiest thing in the world to allow people to turn off notifications and to put stats on a page that no one ever has to look at if they don't want.